Romans 13
nip
06 Apr 2010
In chapter 13, Paul the Neurotic made fundamental assertions which shaped Christian history since that time.
What about totalitarianism - does it mean Bonhoeffer (a German theologian) should have submitted to the Nazis, instead of being part of German resistance? Many a Christian affirms the question...
Quote
Submission to the Authorities
1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.
1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.
What about totalitarianism - does it mean Bonhoeffer (a German theologian) should have submitted to the Nazis, instead of being part of German resistance? Many a Christian affirms the question...
SquigPie
07 Apr 2010
Why do you have to do this Nip? It just ends out with people flaming eachother 
Golan
09 Apr 2010
I don't even get the point TBH. There are other bible passages applying to the situation as well, some of which I'd dare say are of higher importance.
SquigPie
09 Apr 2010
I got alot of answers to counter that Nip.
1. Paul said that, and Paul was a man, saying his opinions about God, and as no man truly can understand God fully, they will always misunderstand atleast something.
2. Imagine writing in The Roman Empire/The Priest Government of Isreal, if you wrote against the government, they would propably haul your ass on a cross, you had to be subtle, so maybee Paul feared for his life and had to write that supporting Big Government is good.
3. This is a direct contradiction to what Jesus spent his entire life doing (flipping it off to the High Priests). If a Christian should pick between Jesus and Paul, the result is obvious.
4. Only fundamentalists and fanatics listen to everything said in the Bible, and as it is a very massive and hard to figure out book, their opinions always end out warped.
When people (Kings and Bishops) use a quote like this to justify their evil (I am King because God chose me!). Thats because THEY are evil, because THEY are evil, the flaw of every religion, politic and philosophy is that either people will use it to justify everything they do, or they go completely overthetop and start murdering everyone for disagreeing with them, it's not the philosophies/politics/religions fault, it's us humans. We suck.
All philosophies/politics/religions set too high expectations of us, "be nice", "don't eat too much", as flawed as we are, we can't do it all right, another problem is that all philosophies/politics/religions are made by humans, flawed, normal people, who had flawed opinions. To me, the Bible is God's word as translated by man: Alot is lost under the way.
Edited by SquigPie, 09 April 2010 - 12:15.
1. Paul said that, and Paul was a man, saying his opinions about God, and as no man truly can understand God fully, they will always misunderstand atleast something.
2. Imagine writing in The Roman Empire/The Priest Government of Isreal, if you wrote against the government, they would propably haul your ass on a cross, you had to be subtle, so maybee Paul feared for his life and had to write that supporting Big Government is good.
3. This is a direct contradiction to what Jesus spent his entire life doing (flipping it off to the High Priests). If a Christian should pick between Jesus and Paul, the result is obvious.
4. Only fundamentalists and fanatics listen to everything said in the Bible, and as it is a very massive and hard to figure out book, their opinions always end out warped.
When people (Kings and Bishops) use a quote like this to justify their evil (I am King because God chose me!). Thats because THEY are evil, because THEY are evil, the flaw of every religion, politic and philosophy is that either people will use it to justify everything they do, or they go completely overthetop and start murdering everyone for disagreeing with them, it's not the philosophies/politics/religions fault, it's us humans. We suck.
All philosophies/politics/religions set too high expectations of us, "be nice", "don't eat too much", as flawed as we are, we can't do it all right, another problem is that all philosophies/politics/religions are made by humans, flawed, normal people, who had flawed opinions. To me, the Bible is God's word as translated by man: Alot is lost under the way.
Edited by SquigPie, 09 April 2010 - 12:15.
