72 replies to this topic

[Foxhound]

Which of these fighter series (ie fighter and its direct derivatives) from the 4th and 4.5 generation of fighters is the best?

Personally, I think it would be the F/A-18. It's destined for a long service life with various upgrades, not to mention that it's a capable fighter and attacker. It's also got a wide variety of weapons it can use. It's like the F-16, but more capable.

Also, for people who want to go "oh, why isn't x plane in," I left some out because I didn't want the list to get huge.

Edited by Foxhound, 13 November 2007 - 00:43.

[General]

SU-37 ( Terminator )

- capability to deliver a preemptive strike at any air target, including hard-to-detect ones;
- exceptionally high performance;
- phenomenal agility; - multichannel redundancy and algorithmic protection of all information and aiming systems;
- ground target attack standoff range capability;
- terrain following and ground obstacle avoidance capability;
- automated group actions during attacks at air and ground targets;
- ability to counteract enemy ECM and optronic means;
- automation of all phases of flight and combat employment.

Edited by Trousevil, 12 November 2007 - 20:44.

[Soul]

My vote goes to the F/A-18, mainly cause Canada uses them .

[Eddy01741]

Hmm, i have to say, the only contenders would be the eagle, the hornet and the flankers. But i'd have to go with the Flankers (especially the MKI and 37), but that's mostly my opinion.

They have advanced avionics (well, better than old flankers)
Exceptional manuverability with Canards and three dimensional thrust vectoring (can use nozzles to aid yawing in addition to pitching/banking and rolling)
Ridiculously long range (hence why it's so large)
Large (and i mean large) wing area (and body area also helps)
Good thrust to weight ratio
Good payload

Meh, more stuff, but it'd be a pain to list all the great things.

[Whitey]

The SU-37 is just unfair, having it's first flight in '96.

[Eddy01741]

Well, you can't really classify it as a fifth gen fighter... since it's just an improved 4th gen. BTW, i'd call the eurofighter typhoon a fifth gen.

[narboza22]

I noticed you left out the Gripen, Rafale, and the Mirage 2000, three planes that can out perform several of the ones on this list.

Anyway, the F-14 had terrible maintenance problems, bad enough to keep it from being on top of this list.

The F-15 has consistently had a very high mission ready rate, has a perfect record, has been upgraded with AESA, HMD, and new engines. Its arguably second only to the Raptor BVR, and can hold its own in a dogfight against pretty much everyone except the F-22 and F-16.

The F-16 is right up there with the F-15 mission ready wise. The newer Block 50/52+, Block 60, and F-16I are easily some of the most advanced planes in the air. Until the F-22 came along, the F-16 was the best high speed dogfighter in the world.

The F/A-18, assuming that we're talking about the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, currently holds the record for the total amount of weapons it can carry into a battle, plus, it is an excellent slow speed dogfighter, capable of higher AoA than a Flanker.

The Mig-29, not sure which version we're talking about, has always been plagued by a short range and poor radar. While it can land on crappy runways, it also has very short engine life because of that ability. It is however a very good low speed dogfighter.

The Mig-31 doesn't really fit on this list very well. All along it has been designed to stop bombers and cruise missiles. Its not a good dogfighter, and it has lost its BVR edge due to its lack of AESA radar.

The Eurofighter is the unknown here, it has a lot of potential, but it has yet to prove its self in any way. On paper, it looks to be a very good dogfighter and once it gets the Meteor missile, it will be a very good BVR fighter as well.

The Tornado, I'm assuming the Tornado F.3 since that's the fighter variant, is really a crappy fighter. The Tornado was, or rather still is, a great strike platform, but the airframe sucks for air combat.

As for the Sukhois, the Su-37 only had 2 models built as tech demos, one crashed, and the other was turned into a Su-35. The Su-35 only has about 10-12 models built, and is really no more capable than the Su-30MKI. The MKI has good range, payload, and low speed dogfighting abilities, but it falls short radar BVR and radar wise.

Overall, the F-15 wins hands down. As a fighter, it is literally perfect, as its record speaks for its self.

[Eddy01741]

Meh... the MKI is better htan the Su-35 actually. It's basically a two-seater Su-37 (minus some abiilties). Plus, the avionics package has been upgraded since the Su-27, so it has okay BVR ability and radar. The main selling points of the Su-30MKI are the range (long range interceptor), manuverability (large body and wing area+ canards+TVC=manuverable), as well as a good payload (it has to since it's so large).

Anyways, i still don't think the Eurofighter should even be on the list, it's more fifth gen if anything (if you don't put eurofighter on the fifth gen list, then only the raptor is fifth gen that is going into service right now (since Russia's Mig1.44 project was canceled and the Berkut was a tech demonstrator)).

[narboza22]

The Eurofighter does not really have any of a 5th gen fighter's characteristics though. It does not have an AESA radar, it is not a true stealth fighter, and an F-15E in a clean configuration can super cruise as fast as the Typhoon can.

[Eddy01741]

A "mud hen" can supercruise? (if so, that's damn nice). Anyways, i guess i agree the the eurofighter ain't fifth gen, but it's closer than all the others to fifth gen.

[narboza22]

Actually, a lot of planes can super cruise in a clean configuration. The F-16 Block 50 and up, the F-16XL, the F-15C/E, the Rafale, the upgraded Israeli version of the F-4, the YF-17, the F-14, the F-111, the Mig-25, the Mig-31, the South Korean T-50, and the YF-23. But the most remarkable is the English Electric Lightning, which was the first aircraft ever that could supercruise. The Concord and the Tu-144 cold also supercruise

[Crazykenny]

In my opinion the Su-37 doesnt belong on this list. As for my vote, that goes to the F-15E just look at its combat statistics.

[CoLT]

I personally love the F/A-18E/Fs. They have great manouverability and weapons carrying capability. But my vote is going to have to go to the F-15. The hornets don't have the range of many of the other planes on the board here and that is a quite a major drawback to have.

It has such widespread use and a really impressive combat history. In the E variant, it has one of the highest bomb loadout numbers on a plane of its size. 26 500-pounders if i remember right.

It can bombtruck, laser bomb, etc. It's a really capable strike plane. As a dogfighter, the C variant is more than effective. It is capable of sustaining a huge amount of damage too. Nowhere near the amount that the Hog can take but close enough. It is able to fly on one engine, one wing, one tailplane and fairly stable too.

It gets my vote for its firepower, tenacity in a dogfight and ability to remain stable after heavy damage.

[Crazykenny]

You forgot to add endurance

[CoLT]

Oh yeah that too.

Actually, some of the most unbelievable stories come from the F-15.

Like the Israeli F-15 landing with one wing sheared off and the pilot not experiencing any serious flight disturbance.
Or the American F-15E that flew for 19.5 hours with 6 hours in the combat zone. Iraq or Afghanistan I think.
There's even another one about a F-15E scoring a helicopter kill with a laser guided bomb. The helicopter flew into the flight path of the bomb and the bomb just flew straight through it.

All of these can be google searched

[Crazykenny]

Yeah I heared about some of those. I also strongly recommend you look up the Isreali accident, its quite impressive. I mean, name one plane that can fly with one of its wings completly torn off =O

[CoLT]

You mean this?

...click the smiley

EDIT: Slightly off-topic but woah!

Edited by CoLT, 13 November 2007 - 14:22.

[Eddy01741]

Crazykenny, on 13 Nov 2007, 3:06, said:

In my opinion the Su-37 doesnt belong on this list. As for my vote, that goes to the F-15E just look at its combat statistics.

if the su-37 dosen't belong, then the typhoon definitely doesn't belong. the 37 is just the 27 with better avionics, 3d tvc, canards, and some more minor upgrades.

btw, if your wondering why none of the words are uppercase,it'sbecause this stupid library computers shift button doesn't work.

[narboza22]

The Eurofighter is at least a real fighter though. The Terminator was only a tech demo.

[Crazykenny]

Exactly my point.

[Jazzie Spurs]

Trousevil, on 12 Nov 2007, 21:42, said:

SU-37 ( Terminator )

- capability to deliver a preemptive strike at any air target, including hard-to-detect ones;
- exceptionally high performance;
- phenomenal agility; - multichannel redundancy and algorithmic protection of all information and aiming systems;
- ground target attack standoff range capability;
- terrain following and ground obstacle avoidance capability;
- automated group actions during attacks at air and ground targets;
- ability to counteract enemy ECM and optronic means;
- automation of all phases of flight and combat employment.

I agree

[Sgt. Rho]

F-15. Looks badass, and IIRC never shot down in a dogfight

[Whitey]

I'd honestly remove teh Eurofighter and Terminator from the list The terminator may have only a few small upgrades, but they make one hell of a difference. And teh fact that it's not a fighter aircraft. The Eurofighter for being too new.

[Axel of Sweden]

Where,s the SAAB Gripen?

[Sgt. Nuker]

My vote goes toward the F/A-18 Super Hornet. It's both a fighter and an assault aircraft, designed to be both mechanically friendly and yet extremely upgradeable. It's long service life only proves this fact and its ability to tackle both bombing and fighting roles in one sortie makes it an important asset to the Navy. The Super Hornet is also slightly larger than its predecessor, allowing for larger engines, increased fuel capacity, and a larger weapons load-out. The result is higher top speed, longer range, and a more deadly and versatile weapons delivery platform.


Regards,

Nuker