19 replies to this topic

[Teukka]

Edit: I'll gather all the tech-tree plans on the first post now. They're not final so feel free to suggest changes and point out any balance problems

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Legend:
*: requires gen power
(-?): not certain yet
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Structures for all USA sides: Command Center, Power Plant, Supply Center, Barracks, War Factory

vUSA:
Infantry: Ranger
Vehicles: Crusader, Paladin*, Microwave Tank, Dozer

AirForce:
Infantry: Ranger
Vehicles: Sheridan, Ambulance, Sentry Drone, Dozer

Laser:
Infantry: Ranger
Vehicles: Laser Crusader, Laser Paladin*, Dozer

SuperWeapon: (may get StratCenter)
Infantry: Ranger, Bio-Hazard Tech
Vehicles: Drone Tank, Sentry Drone, Avenger

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Structures for all Chinese sides: Command Center, Power Plant, Supply Center, Barracks, War Factory

vChina: (gets Speaker Tower and Listening Post)
Infantry: Red Guard
Vehicles: Battlemaster, Troop Crawler, Dragon Tank, Dozer

Nuke Gen:
Infantry: Nuke Red Guard
Vehicles: Nuke Battlemaster, R.A.D. Tank, Troop Crawler, Dozer

Tank Gen:
Infantry: Red Guard
Vehicles: Battlemaster, War Master, Troop Crawler, Dozer

Inf. Gen:
Infantry: Minigunner
Vehicles: Tigershark, Attack Crawler, ECM Tank, Dozer

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Structures for all GLA sides: Command Center, Supply Stash, Barracks, War Factory

vGLA: (3 Fake Structures)
Infantry: Rebel, Worker
Vehicles: Scorpion, Marauder*, Toxin Tractor, Radar Van

Toxin: (2 Fake Structures)
Infantry: Toxin Rebel, Worker
Vehicles: Marauder*, Toxin Tractor, Radar Van

Demolition: (2 Fake Structures)
Infantry: Rebel, Worker
Vehicles: Mantis, Marauder*, Radar Van

Stealth: (4 Fake Structures)
Infantry: Rebel, Worker
Vehicles: Wheeled Scorpion, Sniper Quad, Radar Truck

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Edit: Any more comments, criticism, suggestions?

Edited by Teukka, 17 November 2007 - 12:00.

[Zancloufer]

Any interesting idea. Thought there should be oilz around the map that can be captured (and invincible) for secondatry Income.

[Teukka]

Yeah, I used that in my old maps of this style. Though I was thinking that in addition to oil I would use the "Ignore_Prequisites" script to allow players build SDZ:s, Hackers and Black Markets but that might not be so good idea after all as it might just get too spammy.

And I really like that idea of invincible Oil Derricks as it would probably fit this kind of map pretty well. Maybe few on each players base but "lots" of additional derricks around the other parts...

[Zancloufer]

Each Player has 1 Dock, and 1-2 "Safe Oils". Across the map are 1-2 more docks per player, and about 3-4 Invicible oils per player. There could even be a few invincible Drop Pads for tanks. This way, people have to go out to get an advantage, but still have 1-2 derricks to fall back on just in case.

[Teukka]

Hmm, maybe not totally invincible Drop Pads but I could up their health to some ridiculous large amount like 10000 to make them basically invincible. Actually the oil derricks might be best to be done in same way but using even more health (20000-50000) so that there's basically a change to destroy them even if it's very minimal.

[Crazykenny]

I'm liking the basic concept, but I do think it needs some refining at the income bit. Maybe supply docks that are worth allot more cash or something?

[Teukka]

Maybe there could one extrahigh (100.000 - 1.000.000) dock next to each players starting position which would grant steady cash flow, but for extra cash and to gain the ability for proper steam rolling players would have to expand out and capture extra supplies and oil derricks placed on neutral territory.


Edit: decided to go with the 8 players / 2v2v2v2 layout

Edited by Teukka, 15 November 2007 - 17:37.

[Teukka]

Mah plan:


Edit: Moved the tech-tree list to first post.

Edited by Teukka, 17 November 2007 - 06:53.

[Ascendancy]

I like this concept. It's that simple. It'll be something quite unique.

[Lord Atlantis]

I am unsure of the no power plant for the Tank Gen. Even though he has powerful tanks, without power they will take longer to build and then be easily overwhelmed as you are trying to produce them to defend your base.

[Teukka]

I was unsure about the Tank Gen's power plant restricting also but it seems to be the only fair thing to do if I'm going to let him build Warmasters and it shouldn't hinder his production so much as the difference seems to be only few seconds.

And he also has the Horde Bonus and veterancy.

Edited by Teukka, 16 November 2007 - 12:11.

[Amdrial]

I predict massive infantry and tank battles on this map ^^.

[Teukka]

^ Hahah, I hope you'll prediction will come true.

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Tweaked gen powers tiem nao:

- vGLA -- Stealth -- Toxin -- Demo -

- vUSA -- SW -- Airforce -- Laser -

- vChina -- Nuke -- Infantry -- Tanks -

Some notes:
- some gens can get special reinforcements from paradrops/ambushes, which hopefully will add some strategic aspect without messing up the balance
- because nuclear gen won't be able to get Isotope Stability upgrade he will be compensated with Nuke Strike and level 1 Arty Barrage instead of two levels of ArtyBarrage
- couldn't remove the Red Army Elite Training
-Alexander will have the full three levels of paradropped Turrets, making her the only gen that can "place" additional defenses

- All GLA teams have Sneak Sttack as their "ultimate" gen power, granting them the usual benefits of Tunnels
- All USA teams have Leaflet Drop as their "ultimate" gen power; their other powers already have enough "boom" and they all have paradrop powers
- All China teams have Carpet Bombing as their "ultimate" gen power, compensating of their lack of tank variation/specialties/upgrades

[Teukka]

Updated the tech-trees and moved them all to first post.

And I've also scripted 9 of the modified tech-trees (out of total 12)

Edited by Teukka, 17 November 2007 - 12:15.

[Lord Atlantis]

I think that every side should be able to have a powerplant, with the exception of the GLA.

I think for the first internal version you should include the ability for the Tank General to build a powerplant, and if that makes him more powerful than the other sides, then remove the powerplant in the second internal version. Guess and check is the main thing that I am getting at.

[Teukka]

I already tested the power issue with tank gen and it seems that the difference (if any) is so minimal that it's actually more unfair to give tank gen the ability to build war factory with lesser prerequisites so he'll get the power plant back.
And if there's any imbalances after that, I'll have to find another way to fix those.

BTW: I was hoping that the ShW's AI would have worked at least primitively with these restrictions but it doesn't. It just builds few structures after which it stops. I'll see if I can do anything for that but if I don't, would it be possible to release this as a multiplayer-only version?

[Amdrial]

As far as I know, the AI works on a pre-set build-order, which means that if it misses a structure, it just won't continue building structures if a prereq. isn't available.

Edited by {LP}Admiral-(NL), 21 November 2007 - 11:10.

[Teukka]

In that case they should build structures normally up to War Factories, unless the preset build order includes base defenses, units or even general powers because at the moment SW gen just builds 3 dozers after which it stops. Chinese gens on the other hand all build one Barracks and some build one Power Plant also but no Supply Centers nor War Factories. Only gen of the Chinese/USA factions who build War Factory was Laser but it didn't build any tanks after that.

I was planning that I'd import ShW's SkirmishScripts on the map and edit them but it takes several minutes of my comp to import them or open the WB's script editor with imported scripts. And it would probably take me forever to get them working in any case.

[Amdrial]

Maybe you can ask PotP to help you with this problem, also, do all the other factions build supply centers?

[Zancloufer]

I never got the Ai on Trench WarFare working that well either. It could be a MP only map,