81 replies to this topic

[Hobbesy]

Chris, on 10 Jan 2008, 18:57, said:

Couldn't agree more. Also, Infantries shouldn't die in just two bloody shots of a rifle, Make it three or four shots before they actually fire.

Lets see you take two shots and still be up and shooting. This mod is more geared for realism.

[Kris]

Høbbes, on 11 Jan 2008, 10:30, said:

Chris, on 10 Jan 2008, 18:57, said:

Couldn't agree more. Also, Infantries shouldn't die in just two bloody shots of a rifle, Make it three or four shots before they actually fire.

Lets see you take two shots and still be up and shooting. This mod is more geared for realism.

I would still fight since its only two shots on the body. Heck, I've heard stories of wounded soldiers still fighting in the field. Also, Vietnam is a dense jungle so theres a 50% chance of bullets getting blocked by trees.

[AntiSocialKindaGuy]

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I'd hope it'd be possible for units to gain veterancy. Or else it's useless to me...veterancy makes all the difference.

There is no veterancy; it was deemed to add little ( how many units survive several encounters? ) and would require a whole load of rebalancing to accommodate. The concept of veterancy doesn't really add anything to the mod and further encourages micromanagement, which we have tried to avoid. It's not to do with logic except for the deploying, towed logics - but the sniper deploy and m60 deploy are unaffected. If you feel that without veterancy your game experience is incomplete, then don't play.

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Also, Infantries shouldn't die in just two bloody shots of a rifle

Your repeated comment about this will not make it happen. Accept that I disagree entirely with you, I've spent many more hours balancing and playing VGO than you have. The mod is designed in a specific way, and many of your comments are heavily based on the fact that it plays very differently to ZH, and you don't like that. Therefore the mod is not for you, accept it and move on; the mod is slower, more tactical and more realistic - Sudden Strike is a lot closer to this mod in gameplay terms than ZH.

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Vietnam is a dense jungle so theres a 50% chance of bullets getting blocked by trees.

Shots are very often blocked by trees, and there is a chance to miss for every shot.

[Whitey]

Yep, when fighting inside of a jungle, all appears as it should. Besides, who actually would fight out in the open when they didn't have to?

[Ascendancy]

AntiSocialKindaGuy, on 11 Jan 2008, 3:25, said:

Quote

I'd hope it'd be possible for units to gain veterancy. Or else it's useless to me...veterancy makes all the difference.

There is no veterancy; it was deemed to add little ( how many units survive several encounters? ) and would require a whole load of rebalancing to accommodate. The concept of veterancy doesn't really add anything to the mod and further encourages micromanagement, which we have tried to avoid. It's not to do with logic except for the deploying, towed logics - but the sniper deploy and m60 deploy are unaffected. If you feel that without veterancy your game experience is incomplete, then don't play.

Then I won't...

[Stinger]

Veterency awards players for keeping units alive. I cannot see a possible reason to drop veterency other than to be different, which in this case is not good. However, this is not a bash. I'll have a crack at the mod later.

[Kyouko]

Do you really thing killing a few guys will make you reload faster? Have you bullets hurt more? Give you the ability to heal yourself? NO, as many have pointed out, this is not zero hour nor does it set out to be.

[Whitey]

Indeed, veterancy is unrealistic in the game. Benefits are bollocks and promotions don't happen like that in such short amount of time, combat or not.

[AntiSocialKindaGuy]

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I cannot see a possible reason to drop veterency other than to be different

I covered this one earlier; the extra balancing required for it is not worth the effort given most units won't survive even a single engagement, let alone several. Thus you would either have very fast promoting rates or never see infantry promoted anyway. I'd rather spend the time getting more important and interesting features into the game. Veterancy doesn't add a great deal to the game, I'd rather not break the fine balancing each unit has against the others.

[Sharpnessism]

I tried this mod and it is very fun. If you go in with the mindset of ZH then you'll have a very hard time playing this game, it is totally different and I like a lot of the features it has. Granted I still prefer the Shockwave/ZH style of play and realism isn't my thing but I can see that the mod is very good. Soldiers are meant to die fast in the game, and they DO DIE FAST but they are also cheap and fast to produce.

Iron_Golem, on 12 Jan 2008, 6:34, said:

Do you really thing killing a few guys will make you reload faster? Have you bullets hurt more? Give you the ability to heal yourself? NO, as many have pointed out, this is not zero hour nor does it set out to be.

Veterancy in many games represent combat experience, veteran soldiers DO FIGHT BETTER. They have better aim, they are less panicky, and they have better awareness. I think it would have been fine to include veterancy for VGO in the form of more "realistic" vet. Ex. Better aim could be represented by slightly more damage and slightly further range.

[Alie]

question - why did you choose zero hour for the engine for this mod? I think it would have been better suited for the BFME or BFME 2 engines

[AntiSocialKindaGuy]

The same reason we didn't choose C&C3; it wasn't out at the time. With hindsight I might have been tempted to use an open source engine, but when I began I wasn't as experienced a programmer and would probably have made a hash of it. Zero Hour was good for the time.

[AllStarZ]

Boidy, on 12 Jan 2008, 8:26, said:

Indeed, veterancy is unrealistic in the game. Benefits are bollocks and promotions don't happen like that in such short amount of time, combat or not.

It's not veterancy, its more like experience. A tank crew experienced in combat will probably fire faster and aim better than an unexperienced one.

[Whitey]

Well obviously. But such experience doesn't come from an hour of gameplay.

[Hobbesy]

Boidy, on 13 Jan 2008, 13:07, said:

Well obviously. But such experience doesn't come from an hour of gameplay.

And in real life, tanks aren't built at factories in the middle of the battlefield.

[Whitey]

And in real life, SAGE isn't a very good engine for replicating reality so we try as best we can.

[Kris]

AllStarZ, on 14 Jan 2008, 2:35, said:

Boidy, on 12 Jan 2008, 8:26, said:

Indeed, veterancy is unrealistic in the game. Benefits are bollocks and promotions don't happen like that in such short amount of time, combat or not.

It's not veterancy, its more like experience. A tank crew experienced in combat will probably fire faster and aim better than an unexperienced one.

Couldn't agree more. Experience DO Happen in real life. Example: If you fire a rifle for the first time, You will fire slowly and will have bad aim. But, Hours of using the same gun. You will get the hang of it so in the end, You'll fire faster and somewhat more accurate.

Edited by Chris, 13 January 2008 - 22:44.

[Kyouko]

After HOURS, inf dont live for very long in VGO and if you want vetrancy, mod the files your self.

[Whitey]

VGO games don't last for hours...

[Ranger_Logan]

Enough with the veterancy already. Of all the cool stuff and hard work put into this mod I can`t believe everybody got stuck at that. We don`t have it, so what?! We wanted to make the mod about something else, not that. I hope someone will make a mod with only veterancy in it, that should get the bashing out from V|GO.

This mod wants to represent the amount of troops sent into the jungles without any support and big casualties. Squad after squad sent deeper into jungles, even cut off from supplies or reinforcements. We don`t need to make them fire faster when they gain it, because we have the Marine Captain to inspire them; selfhealing, Combat Medic at the ready. Everything you saw in ZH in veterancy you can find it in V|GO in the barracks.

So get over the veterancy. That`s why it`s called a TC. You don`t see veterancy in W40k DoW and you don`t see the community complain.

[Alias]

They couldn't include it anyway, there is a bug with veterancy and the deploy logic they use for infantry - ShockWave has it with the current AT gun.

Edited by Alias, 14 January 2008 - 07:37.

[Areze]

I can't really play the mod (ZH FUBAR), but I'll say this.

People, stop bitching about 'but omg itz not leik dis in zh', this isn't ZH. Don't like it? Don't play. This is a TOTAL CONVERSION. Is this that hard of a concept to grasp?

[Waris]

Took a fortnight for you to say it eh?

[Whitey]

Waris, on 25 Jan 2008, 0:52, said:

Took a fortnight for you to say it eh?

Miscalculation much?

[Waris]

Nearly, asswipe. Nearly.