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#51 Zero

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Posted 14 December 2008 - 20:11

View PostAlias, on 14 Dec 2008, 5:51, said:

View PostZero, on 14 Dec 2008, 10:10, said:

Ummmmm.....aliens?......I just meant on Earth, you can't prove what you're saying definitively. Also, we are the only creatures capable of engaging in those because we are also the only ones who have the tools to do so (weapons; and the only weapon we have actually capable of annihilating the entire human race, the nuclear weapon)
Incorrect. A chimpanzee can murder another chimpanzee with a rock. A chimpanzee can commit suicide by jumping from a high tree.

I was actually talking about self-destruction part as a whole (species). Sure animals can murder, but it just doesn't happen as often (as I'd like.... :P) Anyway, yes, they can but it happens monumentally less and the reasons are (for the most part) more about survival than paranoia/gain, like humans do.
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#52 Zero

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 00:39

First,

Existence:
intr.v. ex·ist·ed, ex·ist·ing, ex·ists
-To have actual being; be real.
-To have life; live: one of the worst actors that ever existed.
-To live at a minimal level; subsist: barely enough income on which to exist.
-To continue to be; persist: old customs that still exist in rural areas.
-To be present under certain circumstances or in a specified place; occur: "Wealth and poverty exist in every demographic category" (Thomas G. Exter).




These discuss a few paradoxes briefly.

More importantly, however, they discuss this paradox:
-I think, therefore I am, is a lie; it is I think therefore you are. This is because I can only exist as long as you perceive me, if I am not perceived by anyone/anything then I therefore cannot exist

-One only exists in reality when observed from the third person, because one can see one's self it does not necessarily mean one exists, one can only exist in the world when he/she can be observed (in any way shape/form) by the outside world

-When one is only observing the world and not being observed by it, one no longer exists as his/her existence cannot be confirmed acknowledged by any other

-The world cannot exist without those who recognize it, those who live in it.
*By this definition: any period, state, or sphere of existence
*This is because if nothing exists to recognize that it exists, then it cannot exists as existence itself
based on what we perceive to exist. If the world cannot be conceived, it cannot exist

-When one is able to see the world without it's existence being called recognized, one can create the world (in the form of "pulling the strings" I suppose)

-One cannot exist as as soon as they are no longer recognized they cease to exist, even if just for a second. At the same time one MUST exist, as the second that they are noticed they are forced into existence. This forms a paradox.
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*Why I say for one to exist their existence must be first recognized by others is because one cannot confirm their own existence. Why? Simply because you stand at a bias and objective point of view, for your existence to be recognized you must be recognized by an outside force. If you exist and you recognize it but others don't then you do not exist in that realm, you can, however, interact with the world in an almost god-like fashion as you are not able to be noticed in any way/shape/form by the people.

**Example: No one acknowledges my existence, even if I walk among them (and by acknowledge I mean hear, see, or whatever). Because of this I do not exist in their realm, as if they cannot conceive me then I cannot exist. If I cannot be conceived then that means that I cannot not exist in their realm, so I must exist in one that is higher/lower. In this way I can interact with those, however, I still exist as I still am, meaning that my existence is acknowledged by any other being. This causes a "Chicken or the Egg" situation, as it results in an infinite expanse of existences.
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Not sure if it is 100% clear, but I understand, ask if you don't understand. Yes, I did spend a VERY long time writing this.

EDIT: youtubes not work, anybody have any links/youtubes in English, don't want to use Spanish.

Edited by Zero, 03 January 2009 - 08:27.

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#53 TWPC920

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 00:59

View PostZero, on 15 Dec 2008, 0:39, said:

-I think, therefore I am is a lie; it is I think therefore you are. This is because I can only exist as long as you perceive me, if I am not perceived by anyone/anything then I therefore cannot exist


Based on what you said, the correct interpretation should be, "You see me, therefore I am"
"Wanna know how I got these scars? My father was... a drinker... and a fiend. And one night he goes off crazier than usual. Mommy gets the kitchen knife to defend herself; he doesn't like that. Not... one... bit. So, me watching - he takes the knife to her, laughing while he does it. He turns to me, and says, "Why so SERIOUS?" So, he comes at me with the knife, "Why so SERIOUS?!" He sticks the blade in my mouth, "Let's put a smile on that face! And... why so serious? -The Joker (The Dark Knight)

#54 Zero

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 01:12

View PostTWPC920, on 15 Dec 2008, 1:59, said:

View PostZero, on 15 Dec 2008, 0:39, said:

-I think, therefore I am is a lie; it is I think therefore you are. This is because I can only exist as long as you perceive me, if I am not perceived by anyone/anything then I therefore cannot exist


Based on what you said, the correct interpretation should be, "You see me, therefore I am"

However, as I have already stated, and am too lazy to state EVERY SINGLE LAST TIME, when I say see, I mean acknowledge/notice (in any way/shape/form:sight (in any spectrum), hearing, taste, feel, smell, think of, imagine, or any other form of acknowledgement). Also, it is a given that the being that acknowledges is a conscious being capable of carrying out free thought as it is only then that you can perceive an existence.
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#55 Dr. Strangelove

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 04:35

View PostZero, on 15 Dec 2008, 1:39, said:

-I think, therefore I am, is a lie; it is I think therefore you are. This is because I can only exist as long as you perceive me, if I am not perceived by anyone/anything then I therefore cannot exist


You can perceive yourself.
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#56 Zero

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 20:23

View PostDr. Strangelove, on 15 Dec 2008, 4:35, said:

View PostZero, on 15 Dec 2008, 1:39, said:

-I think, therefore I am, is a lie; it is I think therefore you are. This is because I can only exist as long as you perceive me, if I am not perceived by anyone/anything then I therefore cannot exist


You can perceive yourself.

Yes, you can, however, you cannot prove your own existence, for your existence to be proven, a third-party source is needed (as as I have already stated, you stand at a bias view). Of course, this MAY lead to the answer that existence is objective, not sure, I have to think about it. Still, that is what I have interpreted.

@ One of Previous Posts: How's THAT for anime being a sub-standard source of philosophy.
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#57 Dr. Strangelove

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 00:15

View PostZero, on 15 Dec 2008, 20:23, said:

View PostDr. Strangelove, on 15 Dec 2008, 4:35, said:

View PostZero, on 15 Dec 2008, 1:39, said:

-I think, therefore I am, is a lie; it is I think therefore you are. This is because I can only exist as long as you perceive me, if I am not perceived by anyone/anything then I therefore cannot exist


You can perceive yourself.

Yes, you can, however, you cannot prove your own existence, for your existence to be proven, a third-party source is needed (as as I have already stated, you stand at a bias view). Of course, this MAY lead to the answer that existence is objective, not sure, I have to think about it. Still, that is what I have interpreted.

@ One of Previous Posts: How's THAT for anime being a sub-standard source of philosophy.


Who's making that statement?
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#58 Zero

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Posted 01 January 2009 - 18:21

View PostDr. Strangelove, on 16 Dec 2008, 0:15, said:

Quote

Yes, you can, however, you cannot prove your own existence, for your existence to be proven, a third-party source is needed (as as I have already stated, you stand at a bias view). Of course, this MAY lead to the answer that existence is objective, not sure, I have to think about it. Still, that is what I have interpreted.

@ One of Previous Posts: How's THAT for anime being a sub-standard source of philosophy.


Who's making that statement?


Well...

View PostAllStarZ, on 8 Dec 2008, 21:42, said:

Most anime is at best a sub-standard source of philosophy.

Social Darwinism. An excuse for the rich and the powerful to justify their position on the basis of superior physical or mental attributes. In reality, men of power rise to their positions on the backs of others.

^That guy did....

Will put up more soon!!
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#59 Zero

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Posted 03 January 2009 - 08:25


Post what you think, and as usual, I will reply with what I think (I like to see other people's ideas first)
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#60 Dr. Strangelove

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 04:39

View PostZero, on 1 Jan 2009, 18:21, said:

*snip*


No, what I meant was when you said you need a third party to validate your existence, who was making that statement?

@Anime Being a Sub-Standard Source of Philosophy: (DON'T READ IF EASILY OFFENDED)
Spoiler

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#61 Zero

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Posted 16 January 2009 - 00:12

View PostDr. Strangelove, on 7 Jan 2009, 5:39, said:

No, what I meant was when you said you need a third party to validate your existence, who was making that statement?

Oopsies...ma' bad....
Anyway, the video doesn't work now, but if I remember correctly it was Ergo Proxy (Proxy One, the one with the mask, if IIRC, he had taken the form of the baby but he had that weird mask-like face when he'd said it)

Quote

@Anime Being a Sub-Standard Source of Philosophy: (DON'T READ IF EASILY OFFENDED)
Spoiler

*Laughs ass off* Well, guess that's one point for me....
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#62 Dr. Strangelove

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 04:09

View PostZero, on 16 Jan 2009, 0:12, said:

View PostDr. Strangelove, on 7 Jan 2009, 5:39, said:

No, what I meant was when you said you need a third party to validate your existence, who was making that statement?

Oopsies...ma' bad....
Anyway, the video doesn't work now, but if I remember correctly it was Ergo Proxy (Proxy One, the one with the mask, if IIRC, he had taken the form of the baby but he had that weird mask-like face when he'd said it)


*facepalm*

What I'm trying to get across is that YOU are proving your own existence by making that statement.
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