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Is Religion Necessary?


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#1 Zero

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Posted 04 January 2009 - 19:37

Simply put, my question are:

Is religion necessary now?

If religion were to be obliterated, would the world be better/worse of? How would it fare? Why would it be obliterated? Why would the world be better off?

Should religion be pushed aside and made MUCH less important (put behind science and other things)?

Should religion just modernize and live on?

To evolve as a society, do we need to have religion?

Edited by Zero, 04 January 2009 - 22:01.

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#2 Futschki

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Posted 04 January 2009 - 20:03

it depends what you're talking about ...
I mean if there's religion and there is spirituality, we can live without religion as in not caring about what i believe in and why, but as for spirituality its as important as science and i dont think it can be put aside but it shouldnt be something we use to pre-judge someone ...
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#3 Dauth

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Posted 04 January 2009 - 20:05

Zero your actions are turning into a crusade, this is a verbal warning to behave in a more tolerant manner.

#4 Z_mann

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Posted 04 January 2009 - 21:28

Describe to me, in few words, life without religion.
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#5 Zero

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Posted 04 January 2009 - 22:23

View PostDauth, on 4 Jan 2009, 20:05, said:

Zero your actions are turning into a crusade, this is a verbal warning to behave in a more tolerant manner.

Actually, I'm not being anti-religious. Actually, this is set of questions made from somethings I've wondered about. Some of these have been asked on the forum before, others I've come up with watching tv/reading.

So, to answer my own questions (wanted to, but didn't have enough time before as I had to go to church):

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Is religion necessary now?

Yes, religion provides answers to most people that science cannot. Furthermore, religion also provides a blueprint for human society that is good for the species, regardless of belief (be good to your bretheren, do not adulterize, do not steal, do not steal); these laws and rules try to limit human violence and make the world fairer. The world, especially in the middle-east, is still VERY violent and religion gives a sense of hope and a new tomorrow, which is what the world needs now.

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If religion were to be obliterated, would the world be better/worse of? How would it fare? Why would it be obliterated? Why would the world be better/worse off?

Now, worse off. As stated above, religion may bring peace to some places but to most others it'll cause conflict. People need something to turn in times of despair/grief and for now, religion is that thing, it gives people a feeling of belonging and assurance that what they are doing is going to pay off (although I disagree in that it sometimes uses fear tactics to do it).

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Should religion be pushed aside and made MUCH less important (put behind science and other things)?

Yes, religion should never take importance over science, nor should it be so important that it can halt progress, simply because science can better mankind and allow us to live on. Religion cannot make vehicles, nor spaceships (which will be needed int the next few millenia as this planet overpopulates and people need to be transported away to other planets and space-stations). Also, religion tends to interfere with medicine in "ethical" field such as stem cell research, which could provide answers to cancers and other diseases.
*btw, does anyone know if their is such a thing as a cancerous stem cell?

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Should religion just modernize and live on?

Yes, religions should modernize (ever read DUNE?). Religion should adjust to fit modern society, not try to force modern people to adjust to it, which doesn't work out very well.

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To evolve as a society, do we need to have religion?

Mmm....Iffy. If science can get to the point where most questions of religion are answered, then yes, otherwise, no. The thing is that religion in itself tries to touch the unexplainable, and for us to be able to disprove it, we must be able to explore, different dimensions and universes as well as our own, which I doubt we will ever accomplish.

The thing is-and you guys don't know me in person, so I doubt you'd completely understand- that question enter and leave me like wildfire. I have one, but I can forget it in a second, so I like to get them out as quickly as possible, sometimes I forget them halfway through. Another thing you might not understand is that it is hard for me to start out with a point, I am good at debating, so long as I do not have to give the first answer, because it gives me time to think, absorb another person's point and think if what I though was right, which is why I don't like to answer my own questions first. And last but not least, sometimes what I say may sound insulting, but it is not meant to be so; I am direct and somewhat cold in what I say, when I ask a question I ask it outright. Answers I can worm around, but not as much questions. I do not mean to offend anyone nor their religion, so if you are offended, I apologize.
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#6 CodeCat

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Posted 04 January 2009 - 22:28

This question can't be answered for everyone. It has to be answered for each person individually. For some people it is necessary, for others it is not.
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#7 Zero

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Posted 04 January 2009 - 22:37

However, I am asking for the human race as a whole.
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#8 Sgt. Rho

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Posted 04 January 2009 - 22:43

That question can't be answered for everyone. For me personally, however, the answer is No.

#9 Dauth

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Posted 04 January 2009 - 22:54

In a strictly physical sense no, however some people would see no point in living without religion. So yes, or we'd get previously devout people committing suicide left right and centre.

#10 Alias

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 00:36

We do not need religion, no. But nor do we need a lot of other things. People are able to live without science. People are able to live without television and computers.

Just because something is not needed doesn't mean it is unwanted.

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#11 Major Fuckup

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 06:33

View PostZ_mann, on 5 Jan 2009, 6:28, said:

Describe to me, in few words, life without religion.

maybe very economically productive because every one would be at work on church days and no religious holidays and polictics would be better cuz religion ain't governing them

I question the general assumption that i am inherently deficient in the area of grammar and sentence structure

#12 Whitey

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 07:22

No. It's not. And those that see no reason to live without can perish without. They needn't exist. :P

-Rorschach

Edited by Rorschach, 05 January 2009 - 07:23.


#13 General

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 07:59

Don't know about religion but ' Hell ' concept makes so much people ( around half of the population - Christians and Muslims ! ) to see nightmares and maybe that reduces the crimes ... Just a though.

#14 TehKiller

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 09:22

Really it cant be answered for the whole population...as Alias said we dont need it but many people still want it (and this many people outnumber the population that doesnt want it so feck off)

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If religion were to be obliterated, would the world be better/worse of? How would it fare? Why would it be obliterated? Why would the world be better off?


Tell me...if religion newer existed (okay to be more specific im talking about Christianity) what do you think what would civilise the people? Religion even though you think backs down science they are the first who started educating people hence spreading and popularising it. Plus it teached people how to behave instead of being a brute barbarian.
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#15 BeefJeRKy

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 09:22

View PostMajor Fuckup, on 5 Jan 2009, 1:33, said:

View PostZ_mann, on 5 Jan 2009, 6:28, said:

Describe to me, in few words, life without religion.

maybe very economically productive because every one would be at work on church days and no religious holidays and polictics would be better cuz religion ain't governing them

The extra hours put in on weekends would probably overstress most employees. Even if Religion never existed, we would still have vacations and holidays (or off-days to be more politically correct).
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#16 Major Fuckup

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 10:29

View PostRorschach, on 5 Jan 2009, 16:22, said:

No. It's not. And those that see no reason to live without can perish without. They needn't exist. :P

-Rorschach

yer well if your that small mined and cant think you your self then you deserve to die XD

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#17 Ion Cannon!

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 10:55

View PostMajor Fuckup, on 5 Jan 2009, 10:29, said:

View PostRorschach, on 5 Jan 2009, 16:22, said:

No. It's not. And those that see no reason to live without can perish without. They needn't exist. :P

-Rorschach

yer well if your that small mined and cant think you your self then you deserve to die XD


Please.. stop posting. Your not adding anything to the discussion. In fact your telling someone to die and you could at least use a spellchecker.

Religion isn't strictly necessary, but very little is. Most things we consider crucial are wants not needs. But religion will always have a place in this world till we can explain everything.
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#18 Pandut

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 14:57

Religion needs to be in the top five causes of death.
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#19 Sgt. Rho

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 16:04

View PostSobek, on 5 Jan 2009, 15:57, said:

Religion needs to be in the top five causes of death.


Truth has been spoken.

#20 TehKiller

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 16:07

and Scinece is in the top 3 if you put it that way (face it as much as science helps us it kills us more). Religion helps more then it kills (if it helped more than a billion ppl)....heck science maybe killed more people in the last century than religion has in the last 300 years
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#21 Major Fuckup

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 16:07

hey Insomniac! i have as much right as you do to post and your not an english teacher and you could have considered my feeling in not correcting me on the forum even though that dosent bother me at all but you could have sent me an email voicing your concerns that i would have considered them throughly that and im putting this nicely and i have no hard feeling towards you but go and shove something that has a circumference bigger than your arse up you arse lol. i do my best to make sure my spelling is correct i am only human and i have flaws you cut me don't i gush blood and bla bla bla XD

i went and googled "how many deaths are caused by religion" and this web site came up i went and took this bit out of it

http://www.abarnett....heism/harm.html

Religious zealotry over the centuries has been directly responsible for countless deaths, imprisonments, needless suffering, torturings, and the oppression of people on grounds of sex, race, colour, sexuality or belief.

A few obvious examples :

* The Crusades.
* The Inquisition.
* Witch trials in Europe and America.
* The Divine right of Kings (valid until killed by another Divinely-appointed King).
* Missionaries destroying/converting smaller, "heathen" religions and cultures.
* Missionaries such as Mother Teresa.
* The demonization of other religions, e.g. Christianity demonizing Pagans ("They're devil-worshippers!"), the Romans demonizing Christians ("They're atheists and cannibals!").
* Persecution of Heretics - e.g. Galileo for daring to suggest that the Earth orbits the Sun.
* Children dying because their parents refused them medical treatment on religious grounds; relying instead on faith-healers and prayer.
* Slavery, supposedly supported by scripture ("Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, just as you would obey Christ.", St.Paul, Ephesians 6:5)
* Holy wars - followers of different faiths (or even the same faith) killing each other in the name of their (benevolent, loving and merciful) gods.
* The destruction of great works of art considered to be pornographic/blasphemous, and the persecution of the artists.
* Censorship (often destructive) of speech, art, books, music, films, poetry, songs and, if possible, thought.
* Persecution/punishment of blasphemers (Salman Rushdie still has a death sentence on him), and blasphemy laws in general.
* The requirement of theism in order to stand for public office or to testify in court.
* Serial killers believing they are doing the work of Satan (or sometimes Jesus).
* Often-fatal exorcisms by priests believing they are destroying the work of Satan.
* People suffering dreadful injury or death in the belief that their faith has made them invulnerable (e.g. people climbing into lion enclosures at zoos, with a Bible as protection).
* Whole societies divided by minor differences in belief or doctrine, often resulting in violence.
* Mass suicides of cult-members following a charismatic leader who believes the world is about to End (most recently, the Heaven's Gate and Solar Temple cults - there will be more as we approach the year 2000).
* The attempted genocide of followers of a particular faith (e.g. the Jewish Holocaust, "ethnic cleansing" in former Yugoslavia).
* Blood sacrifices to appease the Gods, or to ensure a good harvest. (The Aztecs made daily human sacrifices to ensure that the Sun would rise. Or did they? )
* The practice of "female circumcision" (more accurately termed genital mutilation).
* The discouragement of rational, critical thought (resulting in young-earth creationists, for example).
* Uncontrolled population growth caused (or at least helped) by churches prohibiting birth-control and abortion. (You can also add : unwanted pregnancies, ill-fated forced marriages, and pregnant teenagers condemned to a life in mental institutions to avoid embarrassing their families.)
* The spread of sexually transmitted diseases (e.g. AIDS) due to churches prohibiting the use of condoms.
* Believers whipping, impaling, poisoning or crucifying themselves during religious festivals as a demonstration of their faith and piety.
* Suicide bombers taught to believe that martyrs go straight to Paradise.
* The indoctrination of children into the religion of their parents, giving them an arbitrary, life-long belief that is almost entirely dependent on their place of birth.
* Women treated as second-class citizens or even slaves (article : Islam's Shame).
* Pentecostal snake-handlers (Augusta Chronicle news article)
* Persecution of homosexuals (Genocide of gay and lesbian youth)
* Abuse of power, authority and trust by religious leaders (for financial gain or sexual abuse of followers and even children).
* Minor religions ("cults") stockpiling weapons to defend themselves from the Armies Of Satan (i.e. the police and the government).

"Ah, but that was all years ago." you might say. Yes, it was. Unfortunately, a lot of these things still go on today. Look through the Freethought Today Newsletter for "In the News", "Religious Violence", and "You won't believe you're reading this" articles. You might be surprised at how many children are killed each year by well-meaning parents trying to exorcise demons, or people killed/imprisoned by fundamentalists for trivial infringements of "holy laws". People still persecute and kill each other safe in the knowledge that God is on their side, and that they are in the right, fighting for Holy Truth and Divine Justice.

It should be noted that many of these atrocities are caused as a direct result of religious belief - if the person did not follow a particular religion, or did not believe quite so strongly, then they simply would not have acted as they did. Not only is religion used to reinforce/justify a person's prejudices, it may also cause someone to commit an act of violence that they would otherwise have considered abhorrent (i.e. the mother who spent several hours beating her young daughter in order to force out the devil that was making the child playfully turn cartwheels in the house - resulting in the death of the child).

The benefits of religion (many of which may be achieved without religious belief) can include spiritual well-being, charitable works, a sense of meaning and purpose, the bringing together of communities, comfort in times of distress and the (unconfirmed) promise of eternal life after death.

How does this weigh against the other side of the scales?

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#22 TehKiller

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 16:53

300 years u twat not 2000...besides half of those deaths arent really caused by religious reasons (*cough* the seed of evil we know as politics)

Also Insomniac is right....you might have rights to post but what justifies you spamming around here?

Edited by TehKiller, 05 January 2009 - 16:54.

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#23 Whitey

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 18:35

Religion doesn't cause death. It is often blamed, but rarely is it the root cause. Often it is the desire for power with religion as a scapegoat.

First: People have the right to pick their religion. This should alleviate a lot of the blame.
Then people have the ability to choose how to practice their religion. Whether they take every word in the Holy book of that religion seriously, that's their choice.
And then they can decide whether they wish to kill in the name of that religion.

The first group is very general.
The second, not so much, as it separates those (I'm guessing few) few that can see killing as right in their religion, or at least acceptable in the name of it.
The final group is VERY specific. Those that have the desire to kill based solely on their belief in a religion, unaffected by the desire for power, fame, etc, do exist though.

However, they still made a choice, albeit a wrong choice. But we all make wrong choices - and then we blame others, like Grand Theft Auto, video games, family life, being teased in school, et cetera.

Religion hasn't caused any harm to any man. At most, it has had influence. But against a strong mind, influence is nothing.

-Rorschach


#24 TehKiller

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 19:25

View PostRorschach, on 5 Jan 2009, 19:35, said:

Religion doesn't cause death. It is often blamed, but rarely is it the root cause. Often it is the desire for power with religion as a scapegoat.

First: People have the right to pick their religion. This should alleviate a lot of the blame.
Then people have the ability to choose how to practice their religion. Whether they take every word in the Holy book of that religion seriously, that's their choice.
And then they can decide whether they wish to kill in the name of that religion.

The first group is very general.
The second, not so much, as it separates those (I'm guessing few) few that can see killing as right in their religion, or at least acceptable in the name of it.
The final group is VERY specific. Those that have the desire to kill based solely on their belief in a religion, unaffected by the desire for power, fame, etc, do exist though.

However, they still made a choice, albeit a wrong choice. But we all make wrong choices - and then we blame others, like Grand Theft Auto, video games, family life, being teased in school, et cetera.

Religion hasn't caused any harm to any man. At most, it has had influence. But against a strong mind, influence is nothing.

-Rorschach


Listen to da man he knows what hes talking about.
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#25 Sgt. Rho

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 19:47

religion helps more than science?

So if an asteroid was racing towards earth, religion would help us more than a nuke?



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