38 replies to this topic

[Major Fuckup]

not sure if this has hit international news but any one see the article about that 17 year old blond chick who died from a ecstasy O/D and the news like it always does when a teenager dies from drugs, car accidents punchups always makes the teenager out to be a little fucking "goodie toshoes" and its "not their fault" and its "tragic" its a load of bull shit.

Thats a 17 year old not a 2 year old she does know what drugs can do to you the consequences of it but no.
she had one tablet before arriving at the Big Day Out and freaked out when she saw the cops so she ate 2 more tabs to not get caught by the police and died from it good on ya!!
you do drugs you deserve to die and some people are blaming the police for her death well they can join her because they are doing their job in cleaning up trash like junkies just like her and the media portrays that as such a tragedy that she dead and it not her fault and its sad.
And what i think about it is its a good thing that teenagers are dying from drug O/D's and in car accidents because of their dumbass behavior it puts less of a burden on society. Its good that weak minded people are being weened out of existence it makes for a solid and better life for every one else so we dont live in fear of our houses get broken into by junkies for their next fix and hoons doing burnouts in the streets and little shits graffiting public property.
I think its great that junkies die from drugs and hoons are rapping them selves around trees and the graffer kids will die from health problems and cancer caused by CFC's from the spray cans and i have no sympathy for them.
and the media shouldn't always portray these "people" as the "victims" and its "so sad and life wont go on" but as it serves you right you dumb fucks thats what you get when you try to be the cool kid!!!!

And its also sad how teenagers need to take drugs and alcohol to enjoy something like a music concert just plain sad.
what? the band isn't good enough for you unless you see some colors and freakadelick shit man!!

The message here DONT DO DRUGS KIDS unless you want to be in the news as a another bleeding heart bullshit sympathy from dying from drugs story

Edit: oh and i forgot heres the story

http://www.abc.net.a.../02/2479932.htm

Edited by Major Fuckup, 04 February 2009 - 10:58.

[ΓΛPTΘΓ]

In this world, there is a lot of stupid people, and the media is one big group of them.

[Alias]

I don't see the point in Ecstasy and other amphetamines (recreationally), but there are certain drugs like cannabis that should be fully legal.

[Major Fuckup]

and it sickens me that i have to put up with this bullshit where i live why cant i turn of the tv and see a story of a fire fighter rescuing some kittens or somethin but no spoilt kids (who no one could give to shits about) drying and their parents protesting that it wasn't them its society's fault and wanting change from the government is better news that a heart warming story why do you do this to us we don't give a fuck about some snot nose brat even though i get sore sides from laughing at those kids to much XD

[ΓΛPTΘΓ]

I totally agree with major, as they have choosen the wrong path and totally deserved it. No need to feel sorry for them.

[Major Fuckup]

w00t some one agrees with me for one sweet XD

[Rayburn]

The way you put it sounds quite harsh but I do agree with the essence of your statement.
The media needs to be more careful who they're portraying as 'victims'.

[Dauth]

As much as I am loathe to agree with Major Fuckup, he's right in this case, at the age of 10 I understood consequences, now even assuming I'm in the higher band when it comes to brain power, by the age of 16 everyone should have developed their own understanding and be free to take the consequences of their actions.

As for my position on drugs, see my thread in the PA, speaking of politics, lets not get too involved in the politics of legalising X or Y.

[Major Fuckup]

 Rayburn, on 4 Feb 2009, 20:33, said:

The way you put it sounds quite harsh but I do agree with the essence of your statement.
The media needs to be more careful who they're portraying as 'victims'.

harsh? lol i went to school with junkies and those "tagger" kids and it was nothin but fights with them and the community is plagued with them at first i was like meh that sad you died but now im like fucking dipshit this just gets on my nerves a bit over how to days youth is growing up to be nothing but a problem in society and i blame their parents for not disciplining them and i have grown up this this crap and personally feel that theses kid/teenagers should be shot and dumped in the ocean for fish food because they grow up and cruise through life with no responsibility and their parents always bailing them out and what ever they do they wont get disciplined for it and soon enough they will end up killing some one and
"wow man its not my fault" and all they will get is a slap on the wrist and nothing changes until they become a repeat offender when they get out in 3 to 5 years

[Ion Cannon!]

I too, agree with major. The media always does this though. Its like when a kid dies from a stabbing or overdose. All the media and the headteachers will say " He was a good boy, intelligent and well liked " In one case, I knew who the person was. And he was neither intelligent nor good, he was a stupid twat and his one purpose at school was to stop others from learning. Because he was killed I reckon exam results went up because he could no longer disturb others trying to learn.

Its almost a shame we can't screen for an "idiot" gene after birth, then we can take them out before they cause damage to society in numerous ways. Maybe thats inhumane, but even though i've only been alive 18 short years I have seen the damage morons can do to other people.

[Razven]

To be honest, you are quite harsh. I've read the article and there was no indication that there was any sort of blame on the police or any sympathy or condoning of drug using at all, the article was relatively unbiased in its reporting about the event and provided news coverage in a proper manner.

Teenagers will fuckup, panic and overreact. This time, it unfortunately means munching on one too many pills resulting in death. Although the teenager is part of the blame, it is still considered an accident and those affected by it should have our sympathies extended to them. Drug using although illegal (not debating the legal aspects of it) are most certainly not 'trash' as you declare, most of them achieve well in school, well mannered and good people.

Most drug users are not what the media paint them out to be, most are just stressed or bored people looking for a way out, just like how some look to alcohol or immersing themselves into video gaming, it is only in the rare case that drug users become violent although personally, I believe that even without drugs, they would've had slightly violent tendencies anyway and the use of drugs served to amplify this 'trait.'
Most full understand the consequences of what they do and do not expose themselves to danger when they're engaging in the use of drugs.

Also, although I refuse to comment on your "...just plain sad" comment, but some people express that they do enjoy music more when they are under the influence of drugs.

And in response to your question on why the media selects less heart-warming stories, it is becuase that is how the modern world works. Stories involving death, drugs, scandals, sex and whatever makes a good mindless B-movie plot also makes for good TV viewing and therefore ratings. See Iraq? The moment Iraq died down, news stations and reporters went out of the country en mass. The fact that News Stations show footage of angry parents saying it's the society's fault maybe 1) Taking it out of context or 2) Knowing that it is a lie, show it anyway becuase it's generates debate and therefore good ratings.

Lastly, to your above post, I would like to state that discipline is relative and teenagers are not known for great discipline although most will show great loyalty to people they trust. More discipline enforced from parents or authority figures will often fuel them to do the exact opposite of what you want them to do.
To your bit about potential violent behavior, I refer to you my above stated point that most drugs users are not violent criminals but just another contributing member of society. I would also like to make clear a few things:
1) Teenage drug users is not a fault of the parents.
2) Suspected drug-use, murder and violent crimes are not punished with a proverbial 'slap on the wrist', regardless of age.
3) Most drug-users are not inherently violent people.

[Ion Cannon!]

Ravzen you obviously don't live in england. Alot of teenagers that are fucked up are like that because of their parents. There are rare cases when the parents have done everything right and the kid is just a bad egg, or the parents are awful and the kid turns out fine. But alot of people are the way they are because of their experiences with their parents, or lack of it. Some people shouldn't be allowed to have kids, but they do anyway. The kid copies the adult and you end up with a whole family which should never have existed in the first place, because they cannot bring up a child in a healthy environment, nor teach them how to behave properly.

And I imagine the above is also true for almost every country in the world where a majority of people can afford drugs, or has access to them.

Edited by Insomniac!, 04 February 2009 - 14:48.

[Libains]

The news channels glorify every single death, no matter how deserving or not the teenager was of their fate. By doing so, all that happens is that the teenagers who are most likely to do this sort of thing look at the news and go: 'so what, they're not like me'. In the UK, drug use is quite common - I went to a private boarding school, and there was prevalent drug use there. Several good friends went to a state-run school, and yet there was prevalent drug use there. Drugs don't care for age, race, gender or social background - you just have to be stupid enough/have the guts enough to use them. Peer pressure likely does a lot for increasing drug use - the want or need to be cool and hip is a huge factor for many teenagers nowadays. The simple fact is people want to be seen to be involved, and will do almost anything to fulfill that want. It takes a strong person to rise above it all, and the news doesn't help matters because of glorifying ever single person that dies due to it - I'd imagine if the news reported every death related to drugs in a negative way, you would likely have far less because people wouldn't feel good for doing such a thing.

Parents are only responsible for such a thing if they either remove themselves from a child's life completely, or are so oppressive of a child's life that they force them to branch out. Once a child leaves home, it's nobody's fault - it's their own choice. Tbh, I'd rather there was no such things as drugs (illegal ones, not medicinal ones), as it'd result in less violent crime, less pointless deaths, and generally a better life for all. And it would likely do the world of good for South America, who's people could turn their talents to something far better than growing drugs for first-world countries for next to no cash, sinking them into further economic failings.

[Major Fuckup]

Razven i do apologies if i have upset you in any way from what i have said but thats my opinion and i stand by it.
but what Insomniac! was saying about you and i don't mean to offend in any way shape or form is that from reading your point of view is that i feel that you seem to come from a fairly "sheltered" life style but correct me if im wrong.
you are right that teenagers will fuckup, panic and overreact but wouldn't the thought of ditching two small pills before she went in with the crowd past the cops be a better option and downing the two?

And how kids behave is directly linked to how their parents treat them i can give you an example of my self and my best friend my mum was so hard on me that if i broke something or did something wrong i was punished i can not remember how many times i got a studded belt across my back but i didn't do what ever i did that upset my mum again i got my mouth was out with soap and sent to bed with out dinner and i have been exposed to drugs and crime before because of my friend who was pretty much smothered and takes no responsibility for his action. but i never did drugs or steal my mum made me a strong minded son of a bitch and i thank her for being hard on me.

and ah do you live in Australia or have thoroughly read or experienced our laws?

"Suspected drug-use, murder and violent crimes are not punished with a proverbial 'slap on the wrist', regardless of age."
they pretty much are just slapped on the wrist
my friend and his friends have been through juvenile court more times than i care for and i have sat there watching the process if it and in a nut shell of it is did you do it "yes" you regret it? "yes" and you slapped with a juvenile precaution maybe a fine and off you go your done in roughly an hour and the juvenile precaution system works on 3 strikes and your going to juvenile detention and my friend is on 7 strike wtf? and a guy he know who still goes to school is on 12 and hes been caught with possession of cannabis and stealing alcohol, cars and home burglary and all he does with his time is get baked how the fuck he constantly escaped juvie boggles my mind and i had to put up with people like this through high school and i went to a private school and i thought there wouldn't be a drug problem but it was there and all the druggies wanted to do was fight every one for no reason out side and in class and it wasn't uncommon for students to carry weapons i was so scared i carried a large pocket knife in my back pocket some days to school but it was uncommon for a knife to happen but it was scary as shit when somethin like that happened every one was on edge all day. its horrible being in a class surrounded with junkies that haven't had a fix because they are usually aggressive and very disrupting and you just cannot learn.

And these people get idolized by the media and it makes me sick that they don't really know who these sorts of people are the parents and friends of the teenager who died from the O/D and i quote"she had a bright and bubbly personality"
and my mum has the same attitude towards this as me and she commented to me that if she was so bright she wouldn't has done drugs in the first place and i agree with her that aint bright and somethin like that twists the audience in to this into this false euphoria that all drug users are all ways victims and i think that false euphoria has captivated you into thinking that

to end this i have been there done that seen this and i have a fair idea of what im talking about even though it is crude and insulting and putting them into a "stereotypical" group

edit:spelling

Edited by Major Fuckup, 05 February 2009 - 13:23.

[Nid]

Personally I think that claiming these people deserve to die is very harsh and frankly, offensive. I have many good friends who have fell victim to drug use in the past or still use drugs, but they are all wonderful people and extremely loyal friends. If they were to ever were to get themselves into a bad situation with drugs I wouldn't hesitate at all to come to their aid.

However that does not mean that I condone drug abuse, or the way the media portrays it's "victims"

But that's what the media is, they play on peoples heart strings to win opinions over and such other nonsense.

Edited by Nidmeister, 07 February 2009 - 12:38.

[Major Fuckup]

well i respect your opinion on me being harsh but thats me and i wont change.
its great that your friends who suffer from substance abuse are good people in heart but not every one is like that i lost a friend to drugs he did marijuana and ecstasy after primary school he was awesome back in primary school then when he hit drugs he became a cunt and he's still a cunt on and off the drugs which is probbly why i have no sympathy and is harsh at people who use/abuse drugs, but for the record i know not every one is like that but still you don't have a brain if you decide to do drugs and frankly my statement still stands "do drugs you deserve to die" but most people are better than that and i would hope no one in the forum does drugs because you wont get any thing from me but a fuck off

and Nidmeister what do you think makes people do drugs??

[Nid]

The buzz?
Drug abuse tends to put people on a high while it is in their system, after it leaves the system however it's a different story, which is why, I would assume, they turn to drugs again to put themselves on that high point.

[NergiZed]

 Major Fuckup, on 4 Feb 2009, 12:15, said:

and it sickens me that i have to put up with this bullshit where i live why cant i turn of the tv and see a story of a fire fighter rescuing some kittens or somethin but no spoilt kids (who no one could give to shits about) drying and their parents protesting that it wasn't them its society's fault and wanting change from the government is better news that a heart warming story why do you do this to us we don't give a fuck about some snot nose brat even though i get sore sides from laughing at those kids to much XD

That would be a great story, wish stuff like that were reported every day, cause that would just make my day (every day!)


Back on topic.

I don't really have any synpathy for this girl. Why the hell is she taking drug? To escape the horrible American lifestyle? I've lived in various portions of China in my elementary years, and it was a lot worse than America. She must be a unappeciative ignoramus for just giving up and going to drugs. (but sadly, most people are an unappreciative ignoramus to some degree, especially those who've spent their entire lives living in Western countries)

I guess my view is skewed since it is possible to have a miserable life within America, but still, to developing and third-world copuntries? It dosen't even begin to compare. I won't go on with my rant about that though, as it would be never-ending.

On the other hand, think of the benefits (of her death), less compitiion for low-paying jobs, one less person's American's worth of strain on the world's resources. I don't believe that a drug user deserves to die, but one less drug user (whether that be achieved through death or through rehab) benifits society as a whole; there would be less of a drug-trade, less drug-related violence, less third-world countries battling drug-cartels.

Seriously though, America should start a campaign:"Every Time You Buy Heroin, You Become a TERRORIST"

Now that would be interesting.

Edited by NergiZed, 09 February 2009 - 19:19.

[BeefJeRKy]

Guys if you want to discuss the validity of drug use (not the legal aspects) I can move the topic to the philosophical discussion.

[ultimentra]

You dont 'fall victim' to drug use. You make a choice, a bad one. And here in America, kids are given plenty of warning and information at the appropriate age by the public school system and in private schools. They choose to do it so they can fit in with the cool crowd or what not. If they really are THAT weak minded shits then they really do deserve to die. "The death of one is a tragedy, the death of thousands is a statistic."

Edited by ultimentra, 10 February 2009 - 01:32.

[WNxMastrefubu]

its true, in america there are so many warnings against drug use that you Know what your getting yourself into when you do it.

[Ghostrider]

 ultimentra, on 9 Feb 2009, 20:29, said:

You dont 'fall victim' to drug use. You make a choice, a bad one. And here in America, kids are given plenty of warning and information at the appropriate age by the public school system and in private schools. They choose to do it so they can fit in with the cool crowd or what not. If they really are THAT weak minded shits then they really do deserve to die. "The death of one is a tragedy, the death of thousands is a statistic."

Not remotely. Many kids grow up with parents and communities that are conducive to drug use here in America, and you could put ANY person in that setting and they'd grow up being drug users. It's simply that the environment which the person grows up in. So yes, it's partially the person's fault for not realizing that there's a better choice, but think about it: if you grow up with people around you using drugs a lot, you will also be prone to trying/using those drugs. It's not the person's fault that they were thrust into the sort of community where drugs are considered bad.

In addition, not one person deserves to die, especially if they are mere drug users. A lifetime in jail accomplishes everything that death would (maybe more as I'd argue that lifetime in jail is worse), but is more humane.

[ultimentra]

 Ghostrider, on 9 Feb 2009, 19:10, said:

 ultimentra, on 9 Feb 2009, 20:29, said:

You dont 'fall victim' to drug use. You make a choice, a bad one. And here in America, kids are given plenty of warning and information at the appropriate age by the public school system and in private schools. They choose to do it so they can fit in with the cool crowd or what not. If they really are THAT weak minded shits then they really do deserve to die. "The death of one is a tragedy, the death of thousands is a statistic."

Not remotely. Many kids grow up with parents and communities that are conducive to drug use here in America, and you could put ANY person in that setting and they'd grow up being drug users. It's simply that the environment which the person grows up in. So yes, it's partially the person's fault for not realizing that there's a better choice, but think about it: if you grow up with people around you using drugs a lot, you will also be prone to trying/using those drugs. It's not the person's fault that they were thrust into the sort of community where drugs are considered bad.

In addition, not one person deserves to die, especially if they are mere drug users. A lifetime in jail accomplishes everything that death would (maybe more as I'd argue that lifetime in jail is worse), but is more humane.

Okay this is getting a bit too political, because now you have just introduced capital punishment into this padoras box. You may have a point with how a persons community/surroundings can effect ones decisions. But why do kids who live in the "normal" community go to drug use when it is considered bad? A lot of times its because of the want/need to be unique humans have, and sometimes the natural tendency to disobey authority. So it could be said that if a community that considers drug use a commonality, some may refrain from use since it would be "conforming" in a way. So really, my opinion is that people try drugs because they either want to fit in with their friends, or feel the need to be a rebel and not conform to the "corporate clean face" life style. Also, to my knowledge, there has not yet been an experiment with people of varying mental capacities being raised in a drug-heavy environment to see if they became druggies that had actual results to show. However if there was such an experiment, that would be quite controversial. Lets stay away from capital punishment and discuss the actual question as to why drug users are considered victims.

[BeefJeRKy]

-Topic moved to philosopher's corner. Please keep politics out of this or the topic will have to be locked. I.E. no talk about punishment of drug users.

W.r.t. the topic, I would say that I can see why some people use drugs to escape the harsh realities of life. Not really a wise choice I'd say, but I wouldn't always put the whole blame on them.

[Major Fuckup]

 Nidmeister, on 9 Feb 2009, 23:16, said:

The buzz?
Drug abuse tends to put people on a high while it is in their system, after it leaves the system however it's a different story, which is why, I would assume, they turn to drugs again to put themselves on that high point.

of course for the buzz lol
by the time that they normally reach that age which is probably 15 they know through school and TV ads that drugs stuff you up but they still take it regardless

and scope that teenage girl didn't live in a harsh world where the temptation is greater to relive the pain and stress from your harsh life, she was out of school and had a hairdresser apprenticeship and your plain spoiled/super comfortable life style aint nothing pressuring you into doing drugs apart from being cool and peer pressure.