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Deborah Drapper


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#1 Libains

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Posted 13 March 2009 - 12:20

This is regarding a very interesting program that was aired on BBC3 the other day, and I recently watched on BBC iPlayer. For those of you in the UK, the link is here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00j6...Servant_of_God/ For anybody else I would recommend this program on YouTube or on another alternative video site, as it is quite fascinating. It concerns a 13 year old girl called Deborah Drapper who is a devout, evangelist Christian. She has been brought up to live a Christian life, removed from the outside world in terms of television, reality shows and the like. She has an internet connection, but does not use it to explore the world, more to listen to creationist lectures, and update her twitter feed. From my viewpoint, this girl has some serious problems in her life.

Firstly, there is indoctrination by her parents. She is brought up on the bible, and taught at home, not leaving for school. Her parents talk of training her and her siblings, of whom number 10. When asked about their children, the parents simply say it was the way of the Lord - if he wanted them to have less children it would have been so. At home, Deborah is not taught Science as it is against the views of the Church, and she is instead talk Creationist Science. She condemns those who believe otherwise, claiming they have sinned. She has never been allowed out into the real world, and never been able to meet people, have friends, enjoy company with her peers. She has no idea what it means to live - she has no idea as to what reality television is, for example. Sitting here, I wonder how her parents can be allowed to do this - to force their ideals on their daughter until she has no other thoughts or beliefs. One of the most obvious things for me is her massive self confidence. She has been 'trained' to not care what others think. But when she calls you a 'blasphemous, thieving, lying, wicked person', you're quite likely to take offence.

While I take no offence at Christianity, nor Evangelists (whom I have met and argued with before), forcing your views upon people no matter what they think or say, is not correct. I cannot stand to see children with no choice - Deborah tells us that she has made a choice to follow God. Frankly, her parents leave her no other choice, she's never known anything but, so what else was going to happen? She's now so set in her ways that she can't see further - she intends on 'Witnessing' everybody she ever meets (Witnessing is to ask people about their faith and whether they wish to convert and repent to save themselves from Hell),and honestly, how can she ever break this spell over her? Not only do her parents insist on embedding their thoughts in their children, however, but they also insist on doing so to others. They set up a puppet show for the children of a local holiday area, and proceed to ram their faith down their throats talking of Hell, damnation, and asking the children to think of all of their sins at night. I haven't seen parents more outraged, ever. Further to that, Deborah likes to go out at night and confront drunkards on the street. Listing all of their flaws can't lead to any good.

Finally, the idea of a vengeful God. According to the Bible, God is not vengeful. According to this family, however, God is vengeful. Everything that goes on in her brain is talking of eternal damnation, such as if somebody lies, and then gets hit by a car, they will be damned forever by God for having sinned. This is not God, according to most people, as God is merciful. God is merciful no matter whether you repent or not, yet in Deborah's views, if you do not repent you are not worthy of knowing God or Heaven. I frankly find her nature, her way of holding herself, completely unnatural, as she is more pessimistic than anyone that I have ever met - frankly if somebody has religion and belief in their lives, surely they should be joyful for it? While I realise this is in-depth on one person, what are your thoughts concerning devout Christians, their beliefs, and in regards to God, is he vengeful or merciful?

I leave you with this comment regarding the Big Bang: ' You'd have to be mad to believe a theory that stupid. '
For there can be no death without life.

#2 Alias

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Posted 13 March 2009 - 12:34

As with all sets of beliefs I am fine with them as long as they have researched most alternatives (I myself have delved into Christianity, Islam, Buddhism and Hinduism) and do not force their beliefs upon others (beliefs are a personal thing, atheism included), from the looks this family is the polar opposite of that.

Sadly there will always be extremists/fundamentalists.

By the way;
Part 1: http://www.youtube.c...h?v=XduMIK4u65s
Part 2: http://www.youtube.c...h?v=V_w9SueUNBM
Part 3: http://www.youtube.c...h?v=c7nniGYUihk
Part 4: http://www.youtube.c...h?v=tfho7M0Quzo
Part 5: http://www.youtube.c...h?v=gWkP6oRCyb4
Part 6: http://www.youtube.c...h?v=20mZS-UPtU8

Edited by Alias, 13 March 2009 - 12:37.


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#3 Z_mann

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 22:29

I think it's bad for someone so young to be so obsessive. There is nothing wrong with... talking to people, regardless of their beliefs, about some of the questions that are raised by 'witnessing'. But the concept itself is fundamentally flawed - just like those boring and repetitive TV adverts. To make an impression, you need to be friendly with a person, intimate even. I think only then it helps.
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#4 Shirou

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Posted 31 March 2009 - 13:43

An interesting subject, and shame that this discussion didn't really get off. It would be expected since the numerous anti-religious statements made in other topics, given the fact that there are probably more atheists on this forum than religious individuals. I'm also surprised that the family allowed for camera's to even film the insides of their house. I usually hear that TV is a medium for, well, ''lying, blasphemous and wicked'' and I don't expect that family to think different.

What the hell, they so-called allowed the lord to decide how many children they would get. Damnation, whenever those two end up with lascivious feelings towards eachother they just do it while happily condemning preservatives. This is just one example of how everything that is about their religion can be used to decide their life, and make excuses for the things they do in life. Same as with raising their children.

The most interesting, as well as disturbing thing about everything is what you have already said something about: The pessimistic nature of everything. Everything that is in the outside world gets scorned by all the bad things that are out there. It is an extremely effective and easy way to indoctrinate children this way, because you can use this tunnel vision to keep them away from that world. All that girl does is keep using excuses at what is bad about the world to keep her own way of life, or rather that what her parents have moulded for her, intact for the sake of her own mind.

This is exactly what is also happening in the middle east, with the muslim extremists. It's extremely saddening to see how much influence parents have on the way children think of life. You can easily indoctrinate a child what is bad about the world and about other people. All the muslim extremists think about is how bad the world is and then it is easy to make them do things like plant bombs in cars, or even blow themselves up.

Edit: here is a response to this documentary from some Atheists: http://www.youtube.c...?v=tf3rdEYp5zE

This is really saddening me.

Edited by Aftershock, 31 March 2009 - 13:49.

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#5 ultimentra

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Posted 26 April 2009 - 01:30

Some people take religion way too far. EVERYTHING in moderation!
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#6 amazin

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 00:57

i dont like hearing things like this things, they give christians a bad name


i myself believe god to be forgiving and merciful (many bible stories point that way, just take a look at Deuteronomy through the prophetic books)

i think these people are just people with problems, and unfortunately their faith is the way they express it, i mean i know people can get obsessed with one topic or another, but i hope that is not the only case.

the point of religion is not to pester everybody with it, but rather to practice it by yourself and your religious community, and not make a big show of it in public... becuase doing that does not mean you are more faithful than the next guy, it just means you are making a fool of yourself

Edited by umm not dachamp, 29 April 2009 - 00:58.


#7 BeefJeRKy

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 04:27

View Postumm not dachamp, on 28 Apr 2009, 20:57, said:

i dont like hearing things like this things, they give christians a bad name


i myself believe god to be forgiving and merciful (many bible stories point that way, just take a look at Deuteronomy through the prophetic books)

i think these people are just people with problems, and unfortunately their faith is the way they express it, i mean i know people can get obsessed with one topic or another, but i hope that is not the only case.

the point of religion is not to pester everybody with it, but rather to practice it by yourself and your religious community, and not make a big show of it in public... becuase doing that does not mean you are more faithful than the next guy, it just means you are making a fool of yourself

However, at the Last Supper, Jesus Christ asked his disciples to go spread the word and faith. Many religions aim to convert everyone else, so that everyone can attain salvation. However, just because you aren't a Christian, doesn't automatically mean you can't reach Heaven and Salvation. Technically, Deborah's family is living according to the Christian lifestyle, but practically, they are living an isolated extremist life. They must realize that they should not be imposing their views upon others rather they should tell the others about their views and allow them choice regarding their faith.

I forgot to comment on this myself, but indeed one of the more powerful documentaries I've seen. Many thanks AJ.
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#8 amazin

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 15:21

yea, i dont see anything wrong with trying to convert someone... but imposing yourself on them and just acting like an extremist jerk is not the way to do it

#9 SquigPie

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 13:15

Why does my fellow christians always have to be so...ignorant.


Sometimes I almost understand Richard Dawkins....even if he is a total blast-idiot.

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As long as the dark foundation of our nature, grim in its all-encompassing egoism, mad in its drive to make that egoism into reality, to devour everything and to define everything by itself, as long as that foundation is visible, as long as this truly original sin exists within us, we have no business here and there is no logical answer to our existence.
Imagine a group of people who are all blind, deaf and slightly demented and suddenly someone in the crowd asks, "What are we to do?"... The only possible answer is, "Look for a cure". Until you are cured, there is nothing you can do.
And since you don't believe you are sick, there can be no cure.
- Vladimir Solovyov

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