34 replies to this topic

[Zero]

Well, here's my opinion, and it is formulated from Reading, Ergo Proxy, and Chaos Head, and HEAVY thinking (I have a whole part of my book dedicated to this, so why not, eh?)

Simply put: You both exist and do not exist, much like a Schrodinger's Cat, except that it is ALWAYS working and that it is based from perspective.

More technically: That which we call "reality" is a delusion in itself, so I'd need a better definition of existence (although the two DO coincide somewhat). Why do I say this?

Example 1:
-In mine hands is an apple
-You see no apple
-I still see an apple
Who wins in the above scenario? Can you disprove that the apple exists, that it is part of reality? No, you can't.

Example 2:
-I knew a man named Bob Schneizel
-Bob Schneizel is not known by ANY other human in the world (near-impossibility)
-I still have memories of Bob and hanging out with him
Can you disprove Bob? Of course you can't, it's my word versus yours. So, as in the above scenario: Fail.

So, here is mine conclusion: ALL of reality is a delusion. What we commonly refer to reality is also a delusion. Does anyone know the difference? You see, when ONE man sees a delusion, it is that ONE man's delusion (like the apple, or Bob). If two people, however, see a delusion, it is no longer your own delusion but a collective delusion you share with one or many people (think like religion how smaller-usually persecuted- groups are Cults and Larger groups are called Religions. This is mainly in reference to gods where the more populars ones are "real" or "plausible" and the ones of the minorities are "fake." An example of this would be a Schizo person, although not as good one as I would hope). So, getting back to the subject of the matter, what we see as a reality is simple a collective that delusion many have.

So, I ask you again, what is the difference betwen a singular and group delusion? Absolutely NOTHING. The only difference is that many people witness it, and as such, many more believe it (and as animals, we tend to believe what our senses tell us more profoundly than what we might think, in most cases). The fact still stands that it is a delusion we are unable to prove and as such, we tend to accept the more common thing, while others might see it and enterpret it COMPLETELY differently. So basically, like in Math and Physics, save in the simples problems, there is ALWAYS more than one way to get to an answer.

All in all, I can only conclude that ALL reality is a delusion.

Am I making sense? As soon as I can fix my laptop (I call him Charlie) charger which exploded and rendered it (has dead battery) useless, I will use the stuff from my book to explain it, I think I explained it MUCH better there.

[Dauth]

CCCD please stop hitting return as you type. We're advanced enough to have wordwrapping on the forum software

@Topic.

Would logically proving that you didn't exist cause you to disappear from all our collective (digital or otherwise) memories? If not then there would be a fault in the logic and thus you have to exist.

[Destiny]

If your material self is there, you exist. I'm free thought so soul/astral/supernatural are up to you if you want them to exist. Everything probably exists, just not found out yet. Generally, if you're known, you exist. To people whom you've never seen before, they don't exist. At least to you, but for the people who knows that person that you don't know exists, the person exists. A theory exists because it's...well...theorized. It really depends.

[Golan]

Z_mann, on 21 May 2009, 23:15, said:

Golan, you're nailin' the big question: when does a person cease to exist. For that matter - when does existence begin? I'd like to have a proper definition on that term, maybe it will stop my arguments from trainwrecking into each other

Seeing that you brought up those arguments, it'd be useful if you were the one to define those things.

Z_mann, on 21 May 2009, 23:15, said:

Also: these words aren't any real proof of my existence, are they. It could very well be a fraud, some kind of server glitch or hallucination on the receiving end (your brain)...

It'd still proof the existence of Z_mann (regardless whether he's a fraud, server glitch or Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds) as Z_mann is the one who asked for his own existence, thus he must exist, as otherwise the question could not have been asked.
Attributing the being "Z_mann" (the virtual poster here) to "you" (implying the person "behind" him) is irrelevant, as it is done by the virtual poster again. It doesn't matter if there's a "true being" behind it.

[Erik]

Quote

if i cease typing for five minutes, does my existence cease also? If I were to hide behind a curtain and remain hidden, would I cease to exist? Does the world replace itself with darkness whenever I shut my eyelids?

I think you should read a bit about quantum physiks, only to confuse yourself more. Ofcourse only incase you exist.

[cccdfern]

@dauth, sorry mate force of habbit

@topic
the more you think you know about quantum physics the less you really do know, trippy.

Edited by CCCD, 23 May 2009 - 03:05.

[SquigPie]

I can't see you! I can't feel you! And I can't hear you! Those words you write are just written by someone else! YOU DON'T EXIST NOW GTFO!!!!

So...no I can't prove that you exist. Kinda strange actually. We can only prove that we (ourselves) exist. everybody else might be lies (like cakes?).

[Zero]

SquigPie, on 25 May 2009, 8:13, said:

I can't see you! I can't feel you! And I can't hear you! Those words you write are just written by someone else! YOU DON'T EXIST NOW GTFO!!!!

So...no I can't prove that you exist. Kinda strange actually. We can only prove that we (ourselves) exist. everybody else might be lies (like cakes?).

I believe the contrary that you can only be proved through outside observation since you stand at a bias point of view (like how movement can only really be described from a third party who is standing still), so until it can be proved, ALL existence is a delusion, and even then, there is not much certainty.

And I can't prove the person behind Z_Mann exists, but I can prove Z_Mann (the forum chac.) exists.

[Antonius Maximus]

Descartes "Ergo Cogito Sum" I think therefore I am, having said that i am very interested there has been no conspiracy theory behind any of the matrix films.. think about what we are discussing and what The Matrix alludes too "X files music plays in background"

[Chyros]

Quote

Descartes "Ergo Cogito Sum" I think therefore I am, having said that i am very interested there has been no conspiracy theory behind any of the matrix films.. think about what we are discussing and what The Matrix alludes too "X files music plays in background"

Antonius Maximus, please don't revive threads as old like this. The last reply in this thread was almost 6 months ago.

Thread Closed

Edited by Chyros, 09 November 2009 - 12:58.