28 replies to this topic

[Dauth]

We all know of the dangers posed by knives in crime. A question a friend relayed to me recently was why do they have a point? Why not round the end off knives.

We cannot think of a single good reason for a knife to have a point, there are several bad reason and there are even a few 'ish' reasons but no exceptional ones.

[BeefJeRKy]

The point helps with harder fruit IMO but I guess it doesn't have to be as pointed as it is now.

[Dauth]

Nope, a curved knife blade can exert all the pressure needed. I cut some tough fruit with my knives and never use the point. Not a good enough reason sorry.

[BeefJeRKy]

In that case I do not see a point to a knife point apart from stabbing something which isn't a good reason at all.

[stealth816]

I would think it would be for a piercing grip,like in the dirt so u can pick it up quicker than compared when its down on its side, and in combat, easier the slice through as well as swing to reduce wind resistance. If it was blunt it would not move as fast.
Thats what I think.

heres an article talking about just that, http://news.bbc.co.u...ine/7508404.stm

Seems there are some points (pun intended) to have a point. "butterflying a leg of lamb, carving a forerib of beef, and so on. "

Edited by stealth816, 30 May 2009 - 23:20.

[Dauth]

I'm talking about civilian knives. Combat knives have a point because they are designed to kill people.

Also just so you know, at subsonic speeds the largest cause of drag is the trailing edge, a knife compared to an arm is negligible.

[Chyros]

So you can stick your knife through those boxes with plastic over them in which meat is packaged, or puncture the downside of the thingies in which pudding is packaged.

Edited by Chyros, 30 May 2009 - 23:29.

[Zero]

I'm guessing it's because of tradition?

Either that or that the point reduces the blood spilt. A pointed knife will stab, and although there will be arterial hemorrage the fact of the matter is that you only need one knife stab to kill. On the other hand, cutting would result in a lot more wounds and, as such, much less damage to the body. Also, the stabbing is more humane in that it kills quicker and does not force a wounded person to fight on and die of many cuts, which is MUCH more painful than having just ONE cut.

[Wizard]

I think you're missing the point. Dauth is trying to ask why does a non-combat knife have a point, ie a knife you'd use in your kitchen for chopping veg. These knives don't need a point as they are not meant to be used to kill something but rather craft certain fruits and vegetables into pretty shapes. Why do we have knives that can ultimately kill someone lying around the kitchen?

[Alias]

Who said that all kitchen knives are meant to be used on vegetables? That's a bunch of bullocks.

Cutting meat (especially the less tender) requires a pointed edge to perform many cuts, such as cutting inside fillets and the like.
Even when cutting vegetables, doing the rocking motion requires a flat edge the whole way (which means a point) to be able to do it competently.

[Destiny]

A knife is designed to poke pierce/penetrate stuff, and a chopper's to...well...chop. Knives' points are those requiring finesse in their work...I guess. Maybe ask a French chef.


In short, it might be a crap reason but, knives have a point to pierce through things. Humans are lazy by nature after all.

Also, there are many types of knives that aren't related to warfare.

Edited by Destiny, 31 May 2009 - 02:04.

[Zero]

Wizard, on 31 May 2009, 0:40, said:

I think you're missing the point. Dauth is trying to ask why does a non-combat knife have a point, ie a knife you'd use in your kitchen for chopping veg. These knives don't need a point as they are not meant to be used to kill something but rather craft certain fruits and vegetables into pretty shapes. Why do we have knives that can ultimately kill someone lying around the kitchen?

I know, and who said you can't use a kitchen knife to carry out a murder? Most knives used in attacks (deadly or otherwise) outside of a battlefield are common, household kitchen knife. I'm not saying that it's a reason they were MADE that way, but it's something to consider when you choose to KEEP it that way.

Then again, after thinking it through some, the point might just be for a simple incision. Think of a scalpel, you penetrate with the point and THEN cut through the skin, it adds adhesion to the blade in reference to the skin (I'm sorry, I know adhesion's not a good word but I can't think of anything else at the moment).

The same thing goes for meats, most ESPECIALLY the stringy and tender ones such as steak. You insert the point first to make an opening incision and THEN you cut downwards (or, in some cases, saw downwards). Also, it serves its purposes for vertical cutting, when you need to only cut open a small section of space, such as when you're gutting an animal.

[Dauth]

Everyone is coming up with the filleting argument, which is why you have a filleting knife. Still doesn't explain why my chefs knife has a point.

[Golan]

There's a couple of more crafty slicing moves that require a knife point. Once you need to make a small, precise cut, a knife only made for slicing is useless. If you don't have any use for your knife's point, you probably bought the wrong one. 'sides, I find it easier to sharpen a pointed blade.
Also, a rounded knife end is still pretty lethal unless you waste like half of the blade only for making it non-lethal.

Granted though, I really don't see much of a point in philosophically discussing this. If you feel that knives are too dangerous, I'd suggest trying to prepare your food with a Taser.

[No puns were harmed in writing this post.]

Edited by Golan, 31 May 2009 - 09:44.

[RaiDK]

I would have thought it'd have something to do with their original purposes hunting animals...

[nip]

Perhaps it's a remains from earlier age when we were all hunters? Knifes were originally meant to be weapons. The point reduces the force that is needed to go through the coat of an animal. For example the skin of a mammoth was 1-3 cm (1 inch = 2,54 cm) thick, the subcutaneous fatty tissue up to 10 cm. A knife without point even when mounted on a lance would have done no real harm to such big animals.

[Revan]

Because without a point, knives would be pointless.

Dauth, on 31 May 2009, 10:37, said:

Everyone is coming up with the filleting argument, which is why you have a filleting knife. Still doesn't explain why my chefs knife has a point.

Well, for one the filleting knife renders the whole "you can kill people with it" point pointless, because if there's already one potential murderweapon in the kitchen, there is no point in making the others pointless. Apart from that point, I think multiple of the above mentioned points have an influence on the reason why. For one, they originally were used for hunting/killing, then cutting certain fruits/vegetables is much easier with a pointy knifes (for example paprica, in my opinion) and another point I might mention at this point is that the production of pointless knifes might be harder, therefor even more pointless.
I hope you all get my point.

[Major Fuckup]

how about for convenience? easier to put in the block and poke things

[Rich19]

To make small thin cuts in meat in order to put put some herbs in, to unpack meat from plastic containers, for filleting, etc etc. essentially, because it's more convenient.

Plus, does taking the point off a knife make it less dangerous? You could still do some serious damage with a meat cleaver or something.

[WNxMastrefubu]

even though its still dangerious it is LESS dangerous without a point

[Kris]

This thread is like questioning why Forks, Pens, nails, etc, have a sharp point.

For me, the sharp point of knifes is used for making slicing easier for the user. Without it, it would be hard to slice meat, hardfruits and opening a can (yes, i use a knife to open cans)..

As for the knife as murder weapon argument, it's the knife user's choice whether to use this basic kitchenware into a murder weapon.

[Futschki]

well if u want to question the use of knives for killing well uhm u can use pretty much everything to kill people with ... u can take a chair and beat someone to death for example or take some kinda cloth and choke him with it.

it just depends who use it and how he uses it, and as for the use of the point in the knife its for using it as pivot for slicing thing and for poking and piercing other stuff...

[Golan]

WNxMastrefubu, on 1 Jun 2009, 21:49, said:

even though its still dangerious it is LESS dangerous without a point

Seeing that a normal blade is relatively thin, it'd still do fine for penetrating someones lungs or abdomen with a proper stab. Not exactly elegant, but sure as hell effective.

[Destiny]

So...it can be said a knife with a square/circular/insert-shape-here blade is as dangerous as a knife with a rectangular blade? Essentially all sharp things are dangerous and can be used to killing people, knives are no different. But then again a circular-shaped blade wouldn't have any points...geez.

[Alias]

Even if someone was so hell-bent on attacking someone, he could just sharpen down the rounded knives to a point anyway.

Hence this entire argument is void, if someone wants a point, they'll get it.