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Romans 13


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#1 nip

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 21:35

In chapter 13, Paul the Neurotic made fundamental assertions which shaped Christian history since that time.

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Submission to the Authorities
1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.


What about totalitarianism - does it mean Bonhoeffer (a German theologian) should have submitted to the Nazis, instead of being part of German resistance? Many a Christian affirms the question...

#2 SquigPie

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 16:12

Why do you have to do this Nip? It just ends out with people flaming eachother 8| :P

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As long as the dark foundation of our nature, grim in its all-encompassing egoism, mad in its drive to make that egoism into reality, to devour everything and to define everything by itself, as long as that foundation is visible, as long as this truly original sin exists within us, we have no business here and there is no logical answer to our existence.
Imagine a group of people who are all blind, deaf and slightly demented and suddenly someone in the crowd asks, "What are we to do?"... The only possible answer is, "Look for a cure". Until you are cured, there is nothing you can do.
And since you don't believe you are sick, there can be no cure.
- Vladimir Solovyov

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#3 Camille

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Posted 09 April 2010 - 10:13

no it doesn't?
it's time to wake up

#4 Golan

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Posted 09 April 2010 - 11:19

I don't even get the point TBH. There are other bible passages applying to the situation as well, some of which I'd dare say are of higher importance.
Now go out and procreate. IN THE NAME OF DOOM!

#5 SquigPie

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Posted 09 April 2010 - 12:07

I got alot of answers to counter that Nip.
1. Paul said that, and Paul was a man, saying his opinions about God, and as no man truly can understand God fully, they will always misunderstand atleast something.
2. Imagine writing in The Roman Empire/The Priest Government of Isreal, if you wrote against the government, they would propably haul your ass on a cross, you had to be subtle, so maybee Paul feared for his life and had to write that supporting Big Government is good.
3. This is a direct contradiction to what Jesus spent his entire life doing (flipping it off to the High Priests). If a Christian should pick between Jesus and Paul, the result is obvious.
4. Only fundamentalists and fanatics listen to everything said in the Bible, and as it is a very massive and hard to figure out book, their opinions always end out warped.

When people (Kings and Bishops) use a quote like this to justify their evil (I am King because God chose me!). Thats because THEY are evil, because THEY are evil, the flaw of every religion, politic and philosophy is that either people will use it to justify everything they do, or they go completely overthetop and start murdering everyone for disagreeing with them, it's not the philosophies/politics/religions fault, it's us humans. We suck.

All philosophies/politics/religions set too high expectations of us, "be nice", "don't eat too much", as flawed as we are, we can't do it all right, another problem is that all philosophies/politics/religions are made by humans, flawed, normal people, who had flawed opinions. To me, the Bible is God's word as translated by man: Alot is lost under the way.

Edited by SquigPie, 09 April 2010 - 12:15.

Quote

As long as the dark foundation of our nature, grim in its all-encompassing egoism, mad in its drive to make that egoism into reality, to devour everything and to define everything by itself, as long as that foundation is visible, as long as this truly original sin exists within us, we have no business here and there is no logical answer to our existence.
Imagine a group of people who are all blind, deaf and slightly demented and suddenly someone in the crowd asks, "What are we to do?"... The only possible answer is, "Look for a cure". Until you are cured, there is nothing you can do.
And since you don't believe you are sick, there can be no cure.
- Vladimir Solovyov

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