23 replies to this topic

[BeefJeRKy]

This is something I've always been curious about. There seems to be a very VERY large number of Apple/Mac haters here, so I want everyone to seriously answer the question. Is it that you find the fanboys pretentious? The hardware overpriced? No games? (though this is fast changing) Do you do it simply to troll AJ?

[Pav:3d]

I do it out of jest

Since Macs are associated with people who buy apple hardware purely because it looks pretty and is totally in fashion right now, but ofcourse in some cases that couldnt be further from the truth.

And yes, sometimes to get a reaction out of AJ

[ΓΛPTΘΓ]

Scope, on 23 Jan 2011, 23:31, said:

This is something I've always been curious about. There seems to be a very VERY large number of Apple/Mac haters here, so I want everyone to seriously answer the question. Is it that you find the fanboys pretentious? The hardware overpriced? No games? (though this is fast changing) Do you do it simply to troll AJ?

That.

I own quite a few Apple product, but found them lacking unless jailbroken in case of iPods.

[BeefJeRKy]

I used to be a mac hater tbh mostly as a counterreaction to fanboys on tech sites in comment wars (yes in the dark engadget comment days), but after using them more and discovering Ubuntu, I saw the attraction in alternate OSes. That said, I wouldn't purchase an Apple PC because of the massive markup on hardware and upgrades. But the price issue is becoming less important I guess. I may end up getting one in the future.

[TheDR]

I don't like the fact the mega-fans (people i have met) seem to think everything else is crap. I study in Media and most people just accept that Mac is the better format for editing where it isn't, neither is better, they are very similar on both PC and Mac. I have had experiences of them both crashing and both of them working.

The reason i won't buy a Mac is the locked nature of there system and the price. AJ (and a friend at college) have had many problems with customer service side where the staff just seem to be incompetent. I also like being able to upgrade my computer with a new graphics card or new ram, instead of being locked out as it is with a Mac (i also dislike all in one computers and the tower Mac's are explicitly expensive D:).

[Dauth]

I find no use for macs in my home or work life. At home I relax by gaming (sometimes older games with friends) and these generally require windows. At work Unix is the order of business. The issue I have with macs is the form over function. For hardware you're up to 15% more cost for the same grunt and that's not feasible for me.

That being said I also find the fanboys moderately irritating.

[CJ]

Too overpriced. I just bought a laptop for 800€ and the ones I found at the Apple Store were selling for 1500€ for the EXACT same hardware... Not to mention that I find their screen designs utterly ugly.
Thankfully I don't have to deal with the fanboys since everyone here buys Samsung phones considering as they're far cheaper

[Alias]

Since I've actually been one of the very few people here to actually own a Mac and use it as the primary computer, I think I have a fairly strong say in this.

Hardware wise, yes, a PC tends to be better. However that's not everything. Windows is notably wasteful in a lot of system resources whereas *nix based systems are much more frugal. Your hardware running Windows can be far worse performing than hardware a year older running a *nix based system.

Since I study design I tend to work with the Adobe suite (on both Mac and PC platforms) every day. Most of the Adobe suite is optimised far more for OSX than it is for Windows. Yes, it crashes. So does software on almost all platforms. A crash isn't usually a symptom of the OS, it's more often than not caused by the software. What really matters is how well the software performs when it's running how it should.

The gap between a Windows PC and Macs is closing pretty quickly. Since Source was ported correctly to OSX (along with the Unreal engine, which has been friendly since its first iteration, and forms the engine backbone of probably about 50-60% of games today), gaming is becoming a very minor difference between the two platforms. Besides that, there really isn't anything Windows 'does better' than OSX.

That said, a PC running *nix is generally better off than both of them.

NB: in case you didn't gather it from this post, OSX runs off a modified BSD kernel and thus provides most of the benefits you'd get from running *nix.

[Libains]

Well, I'll be honest here:

Macs are expensive, I don't deny, and the people that buy them to look 'cool' get on my nerves just as much as any non-Mac user.

The reason why I got my Mac is twofold. Firstly, I like not being able to mess around in the back of mine - if I did I'd have killed it by now, no question.

Secondly though, is that I find my Mac far more adaptable than a Windows PC has ever been for me. As a student, I don't own a TV, nor do I own a games console/etc. Frankly, I'm lacking greatly in the technology department in that respect. Whilst I don't have a TV tuner for the Mac, it is pretty much everything else to me. At 24" it is my TV, it is my games console. Hell, it's half the reason I stay sane in a single flat. The integration amongst programs on the Mac side, along with the Apple Remote & Front Row (essentially the Apple TV software), makes it perfect should I want to crash on my couch and watch a film, or a TV show, or anything off of iPlayer, etc. That alone made it worth the cost, for me. But further, because it's a good-sized screen, and powerful to boot, I can hook it up to an Xbox360 controller and play my games on Windows using it.

There is also the support. Doc is right when he says I have had a crap experience with Apple Support - the bunch of inane idiots in the local Apple Store are well, idiots. I know more about Macs than any of them, I'd have thought. Further, they managed to send my sodding Mac to the wrong store when returning it after fixing it. That said, the support is still good. Having a Mac means that when something goes wrong, it is always the same company's problem, and they've got to fix it, too. You don't get that with a Windows PC, really, due to the components all coming from individual vendors, especially these days with the rise in the number of custom built PCs.

The way I see it, I've got a computer that is still (almost three years later) an extremely powerful system compared to modern machines, a TV with which to entertain myself with, and a gaming platform powerful enough to run anything publishers that can throw at it. It's the 'TV' side of it which sells it to me, really. Couldn't do without it - and that's something a tower and a crappy 19" monitor can never achieve for me. Further, the OS is still far more stable than most Windows releases, and if you want to dig deep, there's an infinite level of control in the system. Frankly, I don't like using Windows as my everyday OS anymore, as I find it cluttered and irritating, and pretty slow in comparison to OSX.

I know it's more expensive, and for some people, the tradeoff isn't worth it. But for me, it's a perfect all-in-one system that suits me down to a T.

[ΓΛPTΘΓ]

The lack of customization, noise level, and raw performance is what ticks me off the list. I want the hardware I needed, and ONLY the hardware I needed, room to overclock and achieve a pretty much totally silent system. Which, no Mac have done that for me. For a system to have all I want and for less price, I just can't choose a Mac over a PC. My computer is over 4 years old, yet still being top performer in pretty much everything. Its not superior hardware, its superior matching and tuning. Which is where the PC triumph.

Edited by ΓΛPTΘΓ, 24 January 2011 - 02:43.

[CJ]

AJ, on 24 Jan 2011, 1:53, said:

Secondly though, is that I find my Mac far more adaptable than a Windows PC has ever been for me. As a student, I don't own a TV, nor do I own a games console/etc. Frankly, I'm lacking greatly in the technology department in that respect. Whilst I don't have a TV tuner for the Mac, it is pretty much everything else to me. At 24" it is my TV, it is my games console. Hell, it's half the reason I stay sane in a single flat. The integration amongst programs on the Mac side, along with the Apple Remote & Front Row (essentially the Apple TV software), makes it perfect should I want to crash on my couch and watch a film, or a TV show, or anything off of iPlayer, etc. That alone made it worth the cost, for me. But further, because it's a good-sized screen, and powerful to boot, I can hook it up to an Xbox360 controller and play my games on Windows using it.

I beg to differ, you seem to think that PCs are sold with 19" screens, while I bought mine with a 23" one...
I can also do everything you mentioned there (except for the functions which are impossible to access for me because of my slow internet connexion) with my 3 years old PC, and I already was able to do that with my 7 year old laptop (18.4" screen) before it melted due to the horrible temperatures last summer

[Destiny]

I prefer modular, so PC for me. It's my personal computer, so I should be able to change what I want and how I want. It's simple actually, I prefer the Concrete Blocks of Ironside over the EMP Pats of Alexander. Plus I know of some of the not very good practices of Apple...something relating to iPhone replacements.

[ΓΛPTΘΓ]

Most of my engineering application are made for Windows, plus there is nothing I can do on a Mac, where I can't do on a PC. I don't hate Mac, I just goes for the more economical, more customizable, more adaptable system of choice. I am a hater of big screen, being too lazy to move my head at all, I found 19" 16:10 screen perfect for my use. Not seeing Mac of that screen size.

[Ion Cannon!]

I find most people who use a Mac have had 1 or two bad experiences with Windows and to much money so have then switched and proclaimed " Windows is crap, Mac's are much more stable " - Unless you fuck around with a PC alot or it's being used an awful lot I would argue thats bollocks. AJ's point about using it as a TV is also moot, you can buy large monitors for a PC very easily.

I also somewhat hate that Apple are allowed to charge such ridiculous prices and get away with it. I would feel insulted if someone tried to sell me a PC for the price of a Mac.

[Alias]

Ion Cannon!, on 24 Jan 2011, 15:47, said:

I find most people who use a Mac have had 1 or two bad experiences with Windows and to much money so have then switched and proclaimed " Windows is crap, Mac's are much more stable " - Unless you fuck around with a PC alot or it's being used an awful lot I would argue thats bollocks. AJ's point about using it as a TV is also moot, you can buy large monitors for a PC very easily.

That's not it. I like to do a lot of things with the console. Command Prompt and the Windows utilities are very limited in comparison to Terminal and the countless number of system utilities in *nix systems.

The entire base of the operating system is on a whole different level. Windows has its positives but looking at it in a technical respect, it is probably the worst OS there is.

[Chyros]

Reason for me is not only that they are expensive, but that the computers in the sections of chem are all macs and as such I need to work with them regularly. However, I find the OS terrible and everything about macs more centered on looks than functionality. A prime example is the old Apple mouses that are on every student computer at SOC - they're the ones that consist of just one huge button and no scroll wheel or RMB and which are all but impossible to NOT click. The OS also does the little weird slurping thing when minimising and maximising stuff but it's just annoying to the eyes IMO. And you can't play many games on it.

Edited by Chyros, 24 January 2011 - 07:21.

[RaiDK]

I used to be an Apple-hater from the perspective I think a lot of people are: You look at the specs on a sheet and don't "get" how anyone could go for it. Yet I'm now a hardcore iPhone fanboy because it just works so damn well.

You can argue costs/features/spec sheets until the end of time, but I think at the end of the day Apple makes a lot of products that are usable enough to be widely adopted while every other manufacturer just wants to add features to an ever growing list of cool-in-theory-but-useless-in-every-day-life things that the average person has no use for.

PC-wise I don't think I'd ever buy a Mac though. A PC I'd want to customise somewhat, my phone I just want to work.

[Wizard]

For me it's about useage. Whilst at Uni, working very much as Doc is now, there simply wasn't the option to much video editing on the PC. It was Apple all the way, plus a very expensive and specifically made computer for exceptionally high end CGI (the name of which escapes me now). At that time Windows was ultimately redundant for me as the Mac could do the word processing.

Now they are pointless and overpriced for what I want. Gaming. I am no expert in Mac components atm, but I can guarantee you that if Apple made my Windows machine it would be closer to £6,000 than the amount I paid for it.

I don't hate on Macs and I still use iTunes and an iPhone, but on Windows versions. That said, the G4 was way cooler back when it just switched from OS 8/9 to Tabby or whatever it calls itself these days. If you want to store your photos, videos of your nippers and your 99p singles, then most people would be better off with a Apple lappy than a Windows comp anyway. When the hardware doesn't fail you massively (and it will, no doubt fail you massively), the OS is almost idiot proof.

[n5p29]

I think Apple products are more as fashion items instead hardware.
yeah, the lack of customization. their products just have fixed specifications unlike other similar products. by any means, also fixed prices. that some people see them as "expensive".
they also only have limited support booths and distributors in several places too. making them harder to maintain.

Edited by n5p29, 24 January 2011 - 14:01.

[Destiny]

IMO, Apple stuff are made for the not-tech-savvy people...aka technology-dumb ones. But for those who ARE tech-savvy...preference is probably it.

[CJ]

Alias, on 24 Jan 2011, 5:58, said:

Ion Cannon!, on 24 Jan 2011, 15:47, said:

I find most people who use a Mac have had 1 or two bad experiences with Windows and to much money so have then switched and proclaimed " Windows is crap, Mac's are much more stable " - Unless you fuck around with a PC alot or it's being used an awful lot I would argue thats bollocks. AJ's point about using it as a TV is also moot, you can buy large monitors for a PC very easily.

That's not it. I like to do a lot of things with the console. Command Prompt and the Windows utilities are very limited in comparison to Terminal and the countless number of system utilities in *nix systems.

The entire base of the operating system is on a whole different level. Windows has its positives but looking at it in a technical respect, it is probably the worst OS there is.

Good point, except most of the people who buy macs don't even know what a terminal or command prompt is...
Also it's still possible to install MacOS on a PC, and even though it's forbidden by their EULA, I think they don't have the right to prevent you from installing it if you buy the stupid CD, no one's got the right to prevent you from using something you bought in the way you want to (as long as you're not hurting people)

[Kris]

Hardware level, PC for me all the way due to the fact i can build it the way i wanted. Never did liked the Apple policy where they lock out their customers in customizing their products. OS wise, I'm neutral because i still have limited experience with OSX compared to my experience with Windows.

As for compatibility and softwares, I'll stick to windows tyvm because they work for my basic needs out of the box and almost all softwares are built FOR windows. Not only that, softwares, especially games, for Windows is alot cheaper compared to Mac ports. For example, a mac ported pc game here in Manila is around 3000 to 5000 peso. While the Windows version of the EXACT pc game is only around 800 to 2900, highest is 3200 peso. The huge price difference right there alone is what also turns me off from macs.

Apple Inc. and their products in my personal view:

-Downright expensive while getting less performance compared to cheaper alternatives.
-Created for fashion and for less tech savvy people who doesn't like getting their hands dirty on maintenance.
-Lack customizable features compared to Windows or Linux due to their lock out policy.
-Rude policies towards their customers.
-It feeds on Steve job's hate towards Bill gates and his Microsoft.
-Hypocrites. They made fun of "weak and sluggish" Intel processors back in the 90's. But look who's using intel chips now?
-Overhyped.

Edited by Kris, 24 January 2011 - 21:00.

[BeefJeRKy]

Alias, on 24 Jan 2011, 6:58, said:

Ion Cannon!, on 24 Jan 2011, 15:47, said:

I find most people who use a Mac have had 1 or two bad experiences with Windows and to much money so have then switched and proclaimed " Windows is crap, Mac's are much more stable " - Unless you fuck around with a PC alot or it's being used an awful lot I would argue thats bollocks. AJ's point about using it as a TV is also moot, you can buy large monitors for a PC very easily.

That's not it. I like to do a lot of things with the console. Command Prompt and the Windows utilities are very limited in comparison to Terminal and the countless number of system utilities in *nix systems.

The entire base of the operating system is on a whole different level. Windows has its positives but looking at it in a technical respect, it is probably the worst OS there is.

Yes. Anyone who's played around with the Command Prompt in Windows should give Terminal a spin. So much better in terms of usability and capability. Not to mention that the Unix-derived systems' permission masks for files offers far better security than Windows can hope to achieve. When you learn how to use "chmod" and "chown", your computing experience changes.

Edited by Scope, 24 January 2011 - 21:19.

[Dutchygamer]

They are way too expensive.
They have a smug feeling over them (look at us, we are way better then a PC).
They aren't adjustable.
The fanboys are a bunch of smug fucktards. No offence to AJ, but I mean the real fanboys who think that because they can afford a Mac are better in about everything then you. I've seen them (and even worked with them), and I hate them with a passion.

Also, I did try working with a Mac, but for all of the above reasons (and that I'm used to a normal PC), it wasn't a match.