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Piracy and Filesharing


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#26 Golan

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 19:20

 Camille, on 19 Apr 2011, 19:18, said:

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I charge people only for what they actually take from me


to me, that looks exactly the same as: here's a game but first, pay 60 bucks.
I don't have a problem with simultaneous, mysterious exchanges on midnight at old bridges covered in fog. Just phone ahead if you want werewolves and vampires hanging around, only STASI extras are covered by the standard procedure.

 Camille, on 19 Apr 2011, 19:18, said:

you're right, it won't. i might, however, give generously once i know the product is of great use and i have the necessary funds. that way no one loses.
You should try pirating irony and sarcasm. Well, actually I offer it for free here, but it seems you don't consider it worthwhile anyways.

Besides, it's nice that you aren't a totally totalitarian guy but have a sense of obligation. Many people don't, however, and would gladly take what they consider of great use for free. It really really helps to pay the bills if you can rely on getting your money.

Sorry, I forgot. Only a fool would give another man money or anything else of actual value for one of these stories or ideas. Still waiting for your call BTW, want some demon guards perhaps? Succubi are quite the bang, I'm told. Killer clowns are out of stock though.

Edited by Golan, 19 April 2011 - 19:41.

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#27 Wizard

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 19:44

 Camille, on 19 Apr 2011, 18:56, said:

no no, once again, filesharing is NOT THE SAME THING as stealing a car or whatever else, it is not applicable on anything that is actual matter, that actually EXISTS. you can't be that narrow. you simply cannot physically copy a car. you CAN copy a book and you CAN copy a film. this is the only difference that renders the whole philosophy behind property meaningless. if we could copy food, we would and no one would ever be hungry again. we can copy good films ad infinitum and enrich people intellectually so there's literally no reason to be so bigoted and say it all needs compensation.

also, you can keep repeating that "it's theft because... it's theft". but that will hardly change anyone's mind.

Ofc file sharing is not the same thing as stealing a car. You can't smash the windows of a copy of Photoshop and then hotwire it using an elaborate understanding of the wiring..... oh wait......

Theft is theft, whether it be throwing a brick through the window of a shop, dropping an item into a bag to hide it or downloading a copy of a piece of software then ripping a serial key. They aren't the exact same physical actions, but the one thing they all have in common is the appropriation of goods/services/intellectual property that are not yours without the suitable exchange of economic material. Just because there is an ability to recreate the said item in the digital medium and distribute via the same method, ad nausuam, does not mean that the act of taking possession of something without paying for the commodity isn't theft in legal, moral or real terms.

 Camille, on 19 Apr 2011, 18:56, said:

i wish i could redirect you to some discussions on thepiratebay, these folks have far better linguistic skills than me and could far better explain the overall views of file-sharers. but in all honesty i don't think you give a single damn. as long as your pockets filled righty-oh? bah, this mentality makes me sick.

The simple fact is, we live in a society where the supply of goods and services are based on the principle of "consideration" or "exchange". If someone creates a product, i.e., comes up with intellectual property, they have a fundamental right to control that property. If they choose to give it away, fine. If they don't any attempt to acquire it without their consent is stealing. Whether you download or use the old fashioned brick. It's a mentally that has worked pretty well for a good couple of hundred years if I am not mistaken.

#28 Camille

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 20:03

 Golan, on 19 Apr 2011, 20:20, said:

 Camille, on 19 Apr 2011, 19:18, said:

Quote

I charge people only for what they actually take from me


to me, that looks exactly the same as: here's a game but first, pay 60 bucks.
I don't have a problem with simultaneous, mysterious exchanges on midnight at old bridges covered in fog. Just phone ahead if you want werewolves and vampires hanging around, only STASI extras are covered by the standard procedure.

 Camille, on 19 Apr 2011, 19:18, said:

you're right, it won't. i might, however, give generously once i know the product is of great use and i have the necessary funds. that way no one loses.
You should try pirating irony and sarcasm. Well, actually I offer it for free here, but it seems you don't consider it worthwhile anyways.

Besides, it's nice that you aren't a totally totalitarian guy but have a sense of obligation. Many people don't, however, and would gladly take what they consider of great use for free. It really really helps to pay the bills if you can rely on getting your money.

Sorry, I forgot. Only a fool would give another man money or anything else of actual value for one of these stories or ideas. Still waiting for your call BTW, want some demon guards perhaps? Succubi are quite the bang, I'm told. Killer clowns are out of stock though.


why the bitterness? angry because i'm totally going to download your shit or something? clear up man.

i've caused myself enough damage by posting in this thread. it's time for other people to express themselves.

Edited by Camille, 19 April 2011 - 20:03.

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#29 Golan

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 20:16

 Camille, on 19 Apr 2011, 20:03, said:

why the bitterness? angry because i'm totally going to download your shit or something? clear up man.
No, I like people reaping the benefits of others' work without compensation. I'm bitter because the lead STASI guy just phoned in and canceled for tonight. We had such a nice party planned. Hey, you interested in pirating 134l of beer, two BBQs and a bunch of hot succubi? Still got some here and they are becoming icky.

Of course it makes you bitter when people tell you directly that they care shit about your work and don't bother about it because its worthless, doesn't exist and you're just an ignorant fascist for even daring to try selling the stuff.
And then they lament on how they'd force the words out of someone if he wouldn't part with his ideas. Totally not bitter for living in the same world as people like them. But this is still a nice and friendly forum so totally no one would do that here, huh?

Edited by Golan, 19 April 2011 - 20:17.

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#30 Camille

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 21:23

interesting.

but not really. bye.
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#31 Golan

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Posted 20 April 2011 - 08:07

Pardon, I don't think I quite follow your point. I'd love to hear more about your utopia.
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#32 Libains

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 15:54

 Camille, on 19 Apr 2011, 20:18, said:

Quote

I charge people only for what they actually take from me


to me, that looks exactly the same as: here's a game but first, pay 60 bucks.

Yeah...no. The basics of law are such that they support your theory, but in practice, its impossible. When you purchase a product, you make an offer. When the vendor takes your money, they accept that offer. Essentially, you can go to your vendor and offer to purchase anything for whatever you like. Doesn't mean they'll accept it though (cont'd below)

Quote

Quote

But to answer your questions, it's because nice-persons-who-I'd-only-describe-with-the-best-of-words think it's their right to just take it anyways. Because it won't hurt me if they don't pay as it's not actually theft.


you're right, it won't. i might, however, give generously once i know the product is of great use and i have the necessary funds. that way no one loses.

And this is why the law above doesn't work as per its principle. Because people define what they want as offers. Because 99% of humanity is greedy, jealous, and self-invested. If you can get something for nothing, it is highly likely you will. A good case comes back from 2007, where Radiohead released their album online. You could pay anything you wanted for it. It was also a bloody good album. And Radiohead, an incredibly established band with a track record of great music, and millions of dedicated fans, managed to take, on average, per album... $2. 65% or so didn't even bother to pay. Those that did paid an average of $6. An average album is between $10-15. I think it sums it all up very nicely. Nothing people say or do will ever convince you to buy something at retail price.

Now, imagine you create a DVD blockbuster. Say, Avatar. And you let people in for whatever they like. No adverts, no revenue for you at all, aside from ticket sales. You'd never make the £350 million back at all. You then do the same for the DVD. Someone is walking through a supermarket, and they can pick it up for free. Not likely they're going to contribute kindly. At the end of the day, if you invest money in something, you expect to make a profit. Worse case scenario, you want to break even. The industry for blockbuster films would collapse overnight.

Now imagine that whilst this is not entirely the case, the industry is having proportions of its revenue siphoned away in the same manner. You may get 20/30% that purchase after watching, but most don't/won't. The industry can cope, but not particularly well. As I said, people are selfish. You cannot hope to make money, push an economy forwards, provide people with jobs, etc, if you don't make money. And people are selfish, and cheap. Human nature insists that we take as much as we can for free. Therefore, prices have to be set, and fixed, and enforced. There's no other alternative to humanity, unless you are suggesting that we essentially all embrace communism overnight? And considering the entire concept is completely flawed and practically unworkable (there must also be some form of leader, humans are always ranked to a degree), humanity cannot embrace it. You have to charge for a service, a product, or anything else. Trusting the goodwill of others is naive when what you're not clamouring at their heartstrings. And I don't think that the concept of paying for something that is free is ever going to be workable. I'd consider it both incredibly idealistic, and incredibly naive to believe that humanity could ever achieve such a thing. Whilst it is perhaps admirable to believe this, it is ultimately incredibly unworkable, and the facts, figures, experiments, etc, all disagree with you. It can't be done.

Regards my personal views on piracy, well, it's just one of those things. I understand the economy of it, and I am well aware that by purchasing something, whilst I am lining the pockets of some businessman, I am also contributing towards the future of something I enjoy. Were I (in theory) to pirate something, it would be as a matter of convenience. Take, for example, a hit US TV series (House/Castle/CSI/etc). If you're a huge fan, you'd go out of your way to watch it. So much so, that when the broadcasts are a season behind in the UK, you'd pirate copies from the US to keep 'in the know'. Note, if that were me and were I that big of a fan I'd probably buy the DVDs when they did eventually arrive, but that's rather beside the point. People want to see things, or play things. I'd suggest that the vast majority of people who pirate films, dvds or music do so because they want to watch/listen to it asap. The film/tv/etc industry is very stupid in that it thinks that by delaying things, it earns money. It instead encourages piracy. Consider any film in cinemas atm. Were they released when they're done, people would go watch them. Take Salt (Angelina Jolie movie from last year) as an example. People wanted to see it. So the distributors delayed it, to hype people up. And hey presto it leaked online, and everyone downloaded it in advance, instead. Because that was how they satiated their hunger for it. If companies want piracy to stop, a good start would to be to stop syndication, delays, and withholding things from the public. They should also release the films in the cinema onto a purchasable medium once the film stops showing in cinemas. Not wait 9 months for royalty payments etc to kick in. If you could buy a DVD copy of the latest film that was out only a few weeks ago, you probably would, rather than torrent it. However, you can't, you want to watch it at home, and hey presto, you have a way of doing so. It may be illegal, but its the only means that caters to what you want. If the industries embraced torrenting, and give consumers what they wanted and didn't overcharge them (say $15 for a film on iTunes, as opposed to the $5 it's actually costing them to provide it), then perhaps they'd find not everybody wants to pirate things.

tl;dr Piracy is illegal, and should not be done. However, if the industries continue to impose restrictions/dates/delays/syndication/etc on their content, the free, easily accessible, earlier accessible content will still thrive. They're a bunch of idiots, and instead of working it out with respect to piracy, they're jut trying to kill it. See the Digital Economy Act 2010, or the ACTA for more info on how the fight is going. Pirates move with the times, but you will never beat piracy unless you offer a viable alternative, not oppress people into using your only solution.
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#33 Zhao

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 16:36

@ Golan & Camille

D8

#34 Z_mann

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 21:59

I hope it is not to late to post on this thread...

I'm a longstanding pirate. Almost all of the digital media I currently posses is guilty of copyright infringement. There is a very simple reason to why the case is such - I cannot afford it. I cannot afford to buy video games at their retail price here in Belgrade, Serbia. And so I pirate. Because the alternative to that is being poor. And I will NOT allow myself to be poor, or feel poor, or what you like. If video games were more available to me (not just the price, I'll explain if anyone's interested) I would not pirate. End of story.

Does it mean that I would steal as well? No. I'm not an evil person, I wish to do no harm. This is hurting no one. If you feel the need to judge me, than do so, but things will not change until the above conditions are as they are now. I just shared the facts.

So, yeah... bring the tar and feathers :)
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#35 CJ

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 03:37

 Z_mann, on 23 May 2011, 22:59, said:

I hope it is not to late to post on this thread...

I'm a longstanding pirate. Almost all of the digital media I currently posses is guilty of copyright infringement. There is a very simple reason to why the case is such - I cannot afford it. I cannot afford to buy video games at their retail price here in Belgrade, Serbia. And so I pirate. Because the alternative to that is being poor. And I will NOT allow myself to be poor, or feel poor, or what you like. If video games were more available to me (not just the price, I'll explain if anyone's interested) I would not pirate. End of story.

Does it mean that I would steal as well? No. I'm not an evil person, I wish to do no harm. This is hurting no one. If you feel the need to judge me, than do so, but things will not change until the above conditions are as they are now. I just shared the facts.

So, yeah... bring the tar and feathers :)

Oh joy, I'm not the only one in this situation (although I did manage to convert some money in order to buy some games actually)
It pisses me off when people are being opposed to piracy just because they're rich and can afford much stuff, without thinking of people who don't have an alternative... I mean for countries such as mine, the government itself is preventing us from buying stuff abroad, by limiting the amount of cash you can take with you when you travel and makingit impossible to pay onine :|

View PostChyros, on 11 November 2013 - 18:21, said:

I bet I could program an internet


#36 Golan

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 06:49

While I understand your reasoning and guess that most wouldn't budget that you buy digital media anyways...

...it still only means that you have a slightly more understandable reason to steal. Video games aren't food or air to breath, it's neither something you need to live nor something you should bother about if you don't have the resources for it in the first place. There are people living from the stuff, and many of them aren't the faceless multi-million-dollar companies that "surely won't be hurt by poor little me".

Edited by Golan, 24 May 2011 - 06:51.

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#37 CJ

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 11:46

 Golan, on 24 May 2011, 7:49, said:

While I understand your reasoning and guess that most wouldn't budget that you buy digital media anyways...

...it still only means that you have a slightly more understandable reason to steal. Video games aren't food or air to breath, it's neither something you need to live nor something you should bother about if you don't have the resources for it in the first place. There are people living from the stuff, and many of them aren't the faceless multi-million-dollar companies that "surely won't be hurt by poor little me".

And that's the reason for which I do not pirate indie games or music made by small bands which are not attached to any label :)

Also, if I had some way to pay online I'd be definitely buying more stuff, but I do not consider living in a economically closed country a sufficient reason to deprive myself from these "luxuries",and if there's no alternative, piracy it is then.

View PostChyros, on 11 November 2013 - 18:21, said:

I bet I could program an internet


#38 Camille

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 14:05

 CJ, on 24 May 2011, 12:46, said:

 Golan, on 24 May 2011, 7:49, said:

While I understand your reasoning and guess that most wouldn't budget that you buy digital media anyways...

...it still only means that you have a slightly more understandable reason to steal. Video games aren't food or air to breath, it's neither something you need to live nor something you should bother about if you don't have the resources for it in the first place. There are people living from the stuff, and many of them aren't the faceless multi-million-dollar companies that "surely won't be hurt by poor little me".


And that's the reason for which I do not pirate indie games or music made by small bands which are not attached to any label :)


Edited by Camille, 24 May 2011 - 14:05.

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#39 PacSpook

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 14:32

 Camille, on 24 May 2011, 15:05, said:

 CJ, on 24 May 2011, 12:46, said:

 Golan, on 24 May 2011, 7:49, said:

While I understand your reasoning and guess that most wouldn't budget that you buy digital media anyways...

...it still only means that you have a slightly more understandable reason to steal. Video games aren't food or air to breath, it's neither something you need to live nor something you should bother about if you don't have the resources for it in the first place. There are people living from the stuff, and many of them aren't the faceless multi-million-dollar companies that "surely won't be hurt by poor little me".


And that's the reason for which I do not pirate indie games or music made by small bands which are not attached to any label :)



Quoting and highlighting a section is not a response, this isn't SYD, please write something relevant to the conversation.
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#40 Destiny

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 15:36

Piracy and Filesharing. Let's see. It has it's bad points, known to everyone. While I am no stranger to torrenting stuff all over the place, it helped me to see if the content truly garnered my interest, and if possible, buy it or it's sequel. If companies don't actively try to stamp out on stuff like this or doing stuff like DRMs, but try to turn a little blind eye to human nature, they'd fare better in many ways. End of my opinion.
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#41 ΓΛPTΘΓ

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 16:30

Sometimes games are too expensive for me, I do not think £30 for less than 24hours of entertainment is worth it. There are too many games charging a lot, sometimes I just don't see the replay value.

Yeah, many might think I am strange to buy expensive headphones but not games at launch price. But lets think of it that way, my limited edition Audio Technica cost me £250 or something, I have used it non-stop for 2 years. Let say I use it 5 hours a day and two years that is £0.07 per hour, and it is still going strong. And even if I resell it now, I am going to gain 70% profit as it is not an easily obtainable item.

The £30 game cost like £1.25 per hour and I am not likely to play it again.

I am sure not everyone is going to agree here, but that is just how I value stuff. Also, as said piracy is not stealing as the original master copy is still there, you are merely taking a digital copy of the original and can easily multiply freely. Where if you are stealing a real world object, the original is gone.

Edited by ΓΛPTΘΓ, 24 May 2011 - 16:31.

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#42 Alias

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 16:38

We pay the equivalent of £60 for new games so quit your bitching.
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#43 CJ

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 16:43

 ΓΛPTΘΓ, on 24 May 2011, 17:30, said:

I am sure not everyone is going to agree here, but that is just how I value stuff. Also, as said piracy is not stealing as the original master copy is still there, you are merely taking a digital copy of the original and can easily multiply freely. Where if you are stealing a real world object, the original is gone.

Concerning that, I'd also like to point out the fact that if a person pirates something, it doesn't mean the editor is losing money, as there's no way to prove that the person would've bought the product if they didn't find a way to pirate it.

Also, a good example for the kind of games you're talking about : Portal 2 : while it is by far one of the best games ever made, 40£ for 4-5 hours of solo and even less of coop is a bit too much IMO.

@Alias: If I were to buy the only games that are sold legally in Tunisia, I'd have to pay the equivalent of 50£ for a PS2 game these days, so quit your bitching :)

Edited by CJ, 24 May 2011 - 16:45.

View PostChyros, on 11 November 2013 - 18:21, said:

I bet I could program an internet


#44 SquigPie

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 16:44

 Bob, on 24 May 2011, 16:32, said:

 Camille, on 24 May 2011, 15:05, said:

 CJ, on 24 May 2011, 12:46, said:

 Golan, on 24 May 2011, 7:49, said:

While I understand your reasoning and guess that most wouldn't budget that you buy digital media anyways...

...it still only means that you have a slightly more understandable reason to steal. Video games aren't food or air to breath, it's neither something you need to live nor something you should bother about if you don't have the resources for it in the first place. There are people living from the stuff, and many of them aren't the faceless multi-million-dollar companies that "surely won't be hurt by poor little me".


And that's the reason for which I do not pirate indie games or music made by small bands which are not attached to any label :sly:



Quoting and highlighting a section is not a response, this isn't SYD, please write something relevant to the conversation.


Actually I think it was relevant, It's his opinion, that he had the exact same opinion as someone else shouldn't prevent him from saying it.

Still, just underlining something is kinda lazy :)


But about my opinion on this matter (have I said it before?) I've have made a set of rules about it actually:

1. If a friend has it and shares it with you, it's okay (I see it as sharing a bag of chips or something).
2. If it's Activision, it's okay (fuck those guys).
3. There's no reason to pirate games. The local library seems to have an abundance of games for the PS3 (and PC). Loan them there instead.
4. If you have to buy a game, wait a month or two and get it from Steam sale or Coolshop (Best website for scandinavians.)
5. Pirating Indie is never, EVER okay, if you do that, buy it later to compensate.
6. If you are at a LAN and want to play a multiplayer LAN game with others, share/get games with/from others at the LAN. You'll delete it afterwards anyway.

Edited by SquigPie, 24 May 2011 - 16:46.

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#45 Z_mann

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 17:40

Quote

While I understand your reasoning and guess that most wouldn't budget that you buy digital media anyways...

...it still only means that you have a slightly more understandable reason to steal. Video games aren't food or air to breath, it's neither something you need to live nor something you should bother about if you don't have the resources for it in the first place. There are people living from the stuff, and many of them aren't the faceless multi-million-dollar companies that "surely won't be hurt by poor little me".


I really do know all that. Like I said - I don't believe I'm doing evil, and I'm not daft. If a game is available to me and I want to own it, i buy it. Simple as that. I bought Warcraft because I play it. I bought Trine because I play it. I bought several games like that.

But, consider this: I would like to own and play Witcher 2. To do that I need 40 Euros (approx) which I can spare if my employer pays me (someday, hopefully, this country is like that). But to buy online I need a credit card. And for that I need a special kind of bank account. And for that I need to have credit assurance. And for THAT I need to be employed, which I'm not, and neither is anyone that lives with me. Dead end people! I CANT pay over the wire, so I have to buy retail here, and don't even get me started on those ass-nuggets. And Paypal don't work here either.

Also, if I am unable to purchase the game, how am I harming it's sale if I pirate it?
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#46 Camille

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 18:03

 Bob, on 24 May 2011, 15:32, said:

 Camille, on 24 May 2011, 15:05, said:

 CJ, on 24 May 2011, 12:46, said:

 Golan, on 24 May 2011, 7:49, said:

While I understand your reasoning and guess that most wouldn't budget that you buy digital media anyways...

...it still only means that you have a slightly more understandable reason to steal. Video games aren't food or air to breath, it's neither something you need to live nor something you should bother about if you don't have the resources for it in the first place. There are people living from the stuff, and many of them aren't the faceless multi-million-dollar companies that "surely won't be hurt by poor little me".


And that's the reason for which I do not pirate indie games or music made by small bands which are not attached to any label :)

i agree with you and i think that particular snippet perfectly explains my main view on the how and why of piracy.



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#47 Ion Cannon!

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 19:31

 ΓΛPTΘΓ, on 24 May 2011, 17:30, said:

Sometimes games are too expensive for me, I do not think £30 for less than 24hours of entertainment is worth it. There are too many games charging a lot, sometimes I just don't see the replay value.

Yeah, many might think I am strange to buy expensive headphones but not games at launch price. But lets think of it that way, my limited edition Audio Technica cost me £250 or something, I have used it non-stop for 2 years. Let say I use it 5 hours a day and two years that is £0.07 per hour, and it is still going strong. And even if I resell it now, I am going to gain 70% profit as it is not an easily obtainable item.

The £30 game cost like £1.25 per hour and I am not likely to play it again.

I am sure not everyone is going to agree here, but that is just how I value stuff. Also, as said piracy is not stealing as the original master copy is still there, you are merely taking a digital copy of the original and can easily multiply freely. Where if you are stealing a real world object, the original is gone.


Wow you must be a bundle of fun, most enterainment is actually alot more expensive in terms of cost ratio when you compare it to games. I mean if you go to the pub, that can be anywhere from £10-£40 for 6hrs or so. If you see a movie It's £5 for 2-3hrs. Is that really how you compare things, against your Audio Technica? Which as its an item designed to be used for alot of hours obviously means your going to get alot of value per hour.

What I don't get most though is this - People seem to think they are entitled to anything they want, I want it therefore I must have it. You know how it used to work? If you couldn't afford something you saved up for it. *Oh I'm not stealing, It's not a physical copy* And? items have more than just physical value, if everyone pirated everything you know what would happen? All entertainment industries would pretty much collapse, so thank god not everyone is as selfish as some of you guys.

I'm no saint though, I do pirate music. But thats more to try it out, get a feel for the band. After that I tend to make direct donations via websites, as the artist gets more of a cut that way. Oh and It's always acceptable to pirate Activision games :)

If you cannot aqquire a game because It's not on sale in your country or something, and the only way to get it is to pirate it, this is also acceptable.

@CJ - Portal 2 is only 4-5hrs if you rush through absolutely everything and skip dialogue. Otherwise It's 6-8. I would have liked it to be longer, but this is case of quality over quantity and damn is it quality.

Edited by Ion Cannon!, 24 May 2011 - 19:33.

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#48 ΓΛPTΘΓ

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 21:13

 Ion Cannon!, on 24 May 2011, 20:31, said:

 ΓΛPTΘΓ, on 24 May 2011, 17:30, said:

Sometimes games are too expensive for me, I do not think £30 for less than 24hours of entertainment is worth it. There are too many games charging a lot, sometimes I just don't see the replay value.

Yeah, many might think I am strange to buy expensive headphones but not games at launch price. But lets think of it that way, my limited edition Audio Technica cost me £250 or something, I have used it non-stop for 2 years. Let say I use it 5 hours a day and two years that is £0.07 per hour, and it is still going strong. And even if I resell it now, I am going to gain 70% profit as it is not an easily obtainable item.

The £30 game cost like £1.25 per hour and I am not likely to play it again.

I am sure not everyone is going to agree here, but that is just how I value stuff. Also, as said piracy is not stealing as the original master copy is still there, you are merely taking a digital copy of the original and can easily multiply freely. Where if you are stealing a real world object, the original is gone.


Wow you must be a bundle of fun, most enterainment is actually alot more expensive in terms of cost ratio when you compare it to games. I mean if you go to the pub, that can be anywhere from £10-£40 for 6hrs or so. If you see a movie It's £5 for 2-3hrs. Is that really how you compare things, against your Audio Technica? Which as its an item designed to be used for alot of hours obviously means your going to get alot of value per hour.

What I don't get most though is this - People seem to think they are entitled to anything they want, I want it therefore I must have it. You know how it used to work? If you couldn't afford something you saved up for it. *Oh I'm not stealing, It's not a physical copy* And? items have more than just physical value, if everyone pirated everything you know what would happen? All entertainment industries would pretty much collapse, so thank god not everyone is as selfish as some of you guys.

I'm no saint though, I do pirate music. But thats more to try it out, get a feel for the band. After that I tend to make direct donations via websites, as the artist gets more of a cut that way. Oh and It's always acceptable to pirate Activision games :)

If you cannot aqquire a game because It's not on sale in your country or something, and the only way to get it is to pirate it, this is also acceptable.

@CJ - Portal 2 is only 4-5hrs if you rush through absolutely everything and skip dialogue. Otherwise It's 6-8. I would have liked it to be longer, but this is case of quality over quantity and damn is it quality.

FYI, I never gone to the pub to drink, I never went to a cinema. I think you will know why at this point. As I said, not many might agree here, but that is just how I value things. See my Steam account, I have so much games there it worth as much as my computer. As the trend of demos dies, sometimes purchase are just blind from paid "reviews" and specially selected gameplay video. I haven't pirated a game for a long time, but if I am to buy a game I am totally uncertain on, I either not buy it, or test the game if it is worthy or not before handing over cash. With digital distribution, you don't even get to hold the CD-box or read the manual in your hands while it installs, sometimes I really do think "Does it really worth it?"

The most expensive things I have is my bike, computer, audio equipments and my airsoft gear which all of them I use a lot, so yea, it is how I value things, totally true here.

Contrary to some say, I do not have a lot of money. I merely spend them on the selected things that I cared the most. Compare to most student, think how much they can save by not going to the pub, buying beer and other things, I might as well be very poor.

Edited by ΓΛPTΘΓ, 24 May 2011 - 21:18.

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 22:01

 CJ, on 24 May 2011, 17:43, said:

 ΓΛPTΘΓ, on 24 May 2011, 17:30, said:

I am sure not everyone is going to agree here, but that is just how I value stuff. Also, as said piracy is not stealing as the original master copy is still there, you are merely taking a digital copy of the original and can easily multiply freely. Where if you are stealing a real world object, the original is gone.

Concerning that, I'd also like to point out the fact that if a person pirates something, it doesn't mean the editor is losing money, as there's no way to prove that the person would've bought the product if they didn't find a way to pirate it.


Just because this thread has been necro'd doesn't mean people can't read what has gone before....

 Wizard, on 19 Apr 2011, 20:44, said:

 Camille, on 19 Apr 2011, 18:56, said:

no no, once again, filesharing is NOT THE SAME THING as stealing a car or whatever else, it is not applicable on anything that is actual matter, that actually EXISTS. you can't be that narrow. you simply cannot physically copy a car. you CAN copy a book and you CAN copy a film. this is the only difference that renders the whole philosophy behind property meaningless. if we could copy food, we would and no one would ever be hungry again. we can copy good films ad infinitum and enrich people intellectually so there's literally no reason to be so bigoted and say it all needs compensation.

also, you can keep repeating that "it's theft because... it's theft". but that will hardly change anyone's mind.

Ofc file sharing is not the same thing as stealing a car. You can't smash the windows of a copy of Photoshop and then hotwire it using an elaborate understanding of the wiring..... oh wait......

Theft is theft, whether it be throwing a brick through the window of a shop, dropping an item into a bag to hide it or downloading a copy of a piece of software then ripping a serial key. They aren't the exact same physical actions, but the one thing they all have in common is the appropriation of goods/services/intellectual property that are not yours without the suitable exchange of economic material. Just because there is an ability to recreate the said item in the digital medium and distribute via the same method, ad nausuam, does not mean that the act of taking possession of something without paying for the commodity isn't theft in legal, moral or real terms.

 Camille, on 19 Apr 2011, 18:56, said:

i wish i could redirect you to some discussions on thepiratebay, these folks have far better linguistic skills than me and could far better explain the overall views of file-sharers. but in all honesty i don't think you give a single damn. as long as your pockets filled righty-oh? bah, this mentality makes me sick.

The simple fact is, we live in a society where the supply of goods and services are based on the principle of "consideration" or "exchange". If someone creates a product, i.e., comes up with intellectual property, they have a fundamental right to control that property. If they choose to give it away, fine. If they don't any attempt to acquire it without their consent is stealing. Whether you download or use the old fashioned brick. It's a mentally that has worked pretty well for a good couple of hundred years if I am not mistaken.

Stealing is stealing, you can cover it in as much sanctimonious, self justifying bullshit all you like, but that doesn't make it right or legal.

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 23:02

I'm not ignoring what you said Wiz : I never said piracy was legal (or right), although according to my country's law it perfectly is. That's why you can find pirated CDs at any mart :)

View PostChyros, on 11 November 2013 - 18:21, said:

I bet I could program an internet






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