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Separating the Church and the State
#1
Posted 06 November 2008 - 16:54
#2
Posted 06 November 2008 - 18:38
#3
Posted 06 November 2008 - 18:44
IIRC correctly there was 80 decades where no scientific advancement was made as religious leaders outcast scientists as witches and wizards etc. during the Dark Ages.
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#4
Posted 06 November 2008 - 22:08
The brave hide behind technology. The stupid hide from it. The clever have technology, and hide it.
—The Book of Cataclysm
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#5
Posted 07 November 2008 - 05:31
Remember the Crusades, gentlemen.
Info:
In our country, religion is politics masquerading in the name of God. One cannot deny that the Church minds State affairs, from contraceptives to the way how a government should be run.
That's the reason why we have Noli Me Tangere and El Filibusterismo, but still, we have this Medieval policy.
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"Once upon a time in 1700's, Imperial Britain had its share of terrorists...And they were called Americans."
#6
Posted 07 November 2008 - 05:53
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Insomniac!, on 16 Sep 2008, 20:12, said:
I've been given a Bob coin from Mr. Bob, a life time supply of cookies from Blonde-Unknown, some Internet Chocolate from the Full Throttle mod team, and some Assorted Weapons from Høbbesy.
#7
Posted 07 November 2008 - 06:05
It's pretty sad if you ask me because my country has the potential to be a truly shining example of democracy's superior capability for religious tolerance but there is too much hate. That is why Religion and Politics must be inherently separate.
#8
Posted 07 November 2008 - 06:10
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#9
Posted 07 November 2008 - 06:32
Edited by Rayburn, 07 November 2008 - 06:44.
#10
Posted 10 November 2008 - 00:35
Basically, I fully support seperation of church and state. Yes, religion does provide good basic ideals, but it is preventing us from advancing now, we're still caught up on stuff like stem cell research because religious people don't think it's humane to test with embryos. The only good thing I see religion for was back in the medieval days, when it brought more order to the world, the basic values that religion brought us allowed us to work together, but is now limiting us.
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#11
Posted 10 November 2008 - 04:12
Eddy01741, on 10 Nov 2008, 8:35, said:
That's because some world governments allow religions to meddle in state affairs (a hang-over from Pope Clement XVI?). It's either give them full power or none at all.
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"Once upon a time in 1700's, Imperial Britain had its share of terrorists...And they were called Americans."
#12
Posted 10 November 2008 - 06:51
Eddy01741, on 10 Nov 2008, 2:35, said:
Even in, perhaps especially in the Medieval days, was religion one of the most unthinkably despicable things ever practiced IMO.
Edited by Chyros, 10 November 2008 - 06:56.
The brave hide behind technology. The stupid hide from it. The clever have technology, and hide it.
—The Book of Cataclysm
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#13
Posted 10 November 2008 - 10:25
Chyros, on 10 Nov 2008, 14:51, said:
Even in, perhaps especially in the Medieval days, was religion one of the most unthinkably despicable things ever practiced IMO.
Are you thinking of the Salem trials? Or worse, the Spanish Inquisition? (no offense to Spain and her citizens, but it is a recorded historical event)
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"Once upon a time in 1700's, Imperial Britain had its share of terrorists...And they were called Americans."
#14
Posted 10 November 2008 - 10:44
The Wandering Jew, on 10 Nov 2008, 21:25, said:
Chyros, on 10 Nov 2008, 14:51, said:
Even in, perhaps especially in the Medieval days, was religion one of the most unthinkably despicable things ever practiced IMO.
Are you thinking of the Salem trials? Or worse, the Spanish Inquisition? (no offense to Spain and her citizens, but it is a recorded historical event)
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Sorry, but it HAD to be done.
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#15
Posted 10 November 2008 - 10:52
Have I commited a no-no? If then, my apologies.
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"Once upon a time in 1700's, Imperial Britain had its share of terrorists...And they were called Americans."
#16
Posted 10 November 2008 - 11:12
Edited by CommanderJB, 10 November 2008 - 11:12.
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#17
Posted 14 November 2008 - 01:13
Chyros, on 10 Nov 2008, 1:51, said:
Eddy01741, on 10 Nov 2008, 2:35, said:
Even in, perhaps especially in the Medieval days, was religion one of the most unthinkably despicable things ever practiced IMO.
It is true that every major war has had religion as a major factor in it, however, religion did bring basic morals to human beings and at least united them in some way.
And for the record, i'm an atheist/agnostic.
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#18
Posted 18 November 2008 - 17:46
Quote
What are you saying? Things like you can't kill or you can't steal are basic common sense. The Babylonians came up with their code of laws (although I'm not sure if this had to do with religion). A LOT of the laws in existence are COMMON SENSE, believe it or not. If you give me one (good) law, I can explain to you how it is part of common sense. Actually, save for the three, even the Ten Commandments come from common sense.
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[indent]Garrod "Newtype Killer" Ran[/indent]
#19
Posted 18 November 2008 - 17:52
A better argument is enlightened self interest, since that way people take a long term view for their actions.
#20
Posted 18 November 2008 - 20:45
Dauth, on 18 Nov 2008, 17:52, said:
A better argument is enlightened self interest, since that way people take a long term view for their actions.
I see your point... okay, then let me restate it: A lot of laws are based on what should be-more or less- common values. For example: Killing/Stealing. Things like those are well.... not accepted no matter what. The thing is, a lot of those laws that we thank religion for creating are just... for the mot part, they are things that kind of stand out, taking a life is wrong, and taking something that is not yours is not acceptable for most reasons. So, although it may sound like the same as what I said before, all I'm trying to say is that those things are really just common knowledge;
An addition to what Lelouch said: "The only ones who should be allowed to shoot are those ready to be shot." That's kind of how the law works, at least I think so. In other words, I think that thats what it means, that if you kill someone, it will (indirectly, more likely than not) start a chain of events that may never end. That and instinct: By instinct we don't want to die, we don't want our food/territory (although now possessions) or mates stolen, so we came up with laws so that it doesn't happen.
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[indent]Garrod "Newtype Killer" Ran[/indent]
#21
Posted 19 November 2008 - 21:36
The separation of church and state must be in place because it allows for secular neutrality and avoids filibusters in congresses and parliments all over about which bible/quoran(sp)/torah/w/e to use as law.
People say they base their principles on religion and thats more okay with me as long as you don't use it as a justficiation for a new law or w/e
T_B
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#22
Posted 21 November 2008 - 22:45
The Basilisk, on 19 Nov 2008, 21:36, said:
T_B
The thing is, however, that if you're a country, you can't really use religion even to base a moral code. For example, in front of some courts (I think the US Supreme Court is one) there are statues of the 10 commandments, ALL of them, not just the 7 moral ones. Also, to make matters worst, like 3/4 of what America has has to do with the Christian fate (one nation under god; god-given rights in declaration; so on and so on). The worst part of this all, however, is that we preach that we don't care about religion, when in fact we do... If you put up a Muslim candidate against a Christian candidate, I'm sorry to say that the poor guy's pretty much screwed (at most, an 80% chance of winning), and look at how many Catholic presidents we've had, or presidents who aren't from a Protestant denomination... religion DOES matter, we just give you the choice to pick your own and even then we'll persecute you for it (look at our airports or who gets their phones tapped)...
And WORST of all, we even do things in THE NAME of god, such as: one of Bush's justifications for the Iraq War was... wait for it.... "God told me to do it!" GOD DAMN IT!!!!! What we need to do is to eliminate religion from politics, we need to stop putting religious figures in front of our courts and even the public schools which are supposed to be neutral are-for the most part-.... CHRISTIAN!! The only problem is that right after themselves, the only things the greedy bastards at Washington seem to care about is their religion (probably because it helps their own image). I'm sorry, but that's just the truth of it all.
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[indent]Garrod "Newtype Killer" Ran[/indent]
#23
Posted 21 November 2008 - 22:50
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#24
Posted 22 November 2008 - 00:51
Alias, on 21 Nov 2008, 23:50, said:
I'm not saying its wrong to follow one, its just that it irritates me that as a nation, we are so bias and that even the COURTS (which as a part of the federal system) should not show bias. Also, I think that no one should be able to go up and say "God did it" to defend his views, although then again, that would infringe on freedom of speech.... sometimes stupidity can hurt the whole world, eh?
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[indent]Garrod "Newtype Killer" Ran[/indent]
#25
Posted 22 November 2008 - 14:35
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