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Well not to me, it is a little more than a sperm and egg cell combined. Of course it has the unique combination of a unique individual, but so does every other combination. Another main reason is that the less people are born the better.

The cat argument fails hard. You can't go comparing pets that people get for company with a parasitical mosquito. The motivations behind protecting/putting away with the different life forms are totally and utterly different.

SquigPie, on 12 May 2010, 20:04, said:

Fair enough, there are a lot of teenagers who are in it for that. But don't mistake them for the real face of the animal rights movement.

Also: as to saying that taking something that will eventually develop conscious, that argument is flawed. All animals are conscious, btw.

yeah, but when did I ever say they weren't?

Personally I advocate abortion, as long as it is only legal in a reasonable time frame. Aborting an eight-month old foetus is not correct IMO. Of course even then there is not a way to determine with absolute certainty exactly how conscious a foetus is then (and technically speaking, foetuses are not "alive") but after a certain amount of nervous system develops it becomes harder to defend this point and at that time I'd say "rather safe than sorry", especially because it is usually not a problem to interfere before that time. Of course someone addicted to having abortions is also not exactly what I'm hpoing for. But, to be honest I have never in my life heard anyone give any good arguments for complete abolition of abortion, or even any that made any remote sense (well IMO).

The most obvious argument is that any cellular life is life, an argument often used by Christians, and that by extension it is created by God and therefore holy. Of course this also means that getting miscarriages, masturbation, menstruation and cutting your hand (or any other cellular part of your body) are mass murder. *cue "every sperm is sacred"*

SquigPie, on 13 May 2010, 2:04, said:

You can't reason like that by just postulating hypotheses about what might have happened IF and therefore you need to act like X, it just doesn't work like that. There is also a possibility it may NOT have consciousness which would cause you to act in a different way so technically you can't make the decision either way correctly going from pure speculation alone. For example, in that case being a Catholic priest is also murder because through celibacy you rip away the possibility for him to get children that are conscious, among many many examples that use this logical fallacy.

When it comes down to it, I can understand why somebody whose been raped want to have an abortion (although pregnancy by rape is extremely rare, due to natural defense or something biological). But if its simply due to unsafe sex, or "I-am-immature-and-not-ready-yet" then YES I HAVE SOMETHING AGAINST IT. You do something stupid? You suffer the consequences, if I accidentaly drove someone over, I would expect there to be consequences, if I knocked my girlfriend up, I would expect there to be consequences. Any philosophical reasons against/for abortion has nothing to do with this. But as a 16-year old boy, if a girl came home to me and said that she was expecting my baby, I would (although very confused and in need of proof) want to keep it. If she doesnøt want it. screw her, I'll take care of it.
Even then, why not just adopt the baby? Why abortion?
Edited by SquigPie, 13 May 2010 - 21:48.

SquigPie, on 13 May 2010, 22:47, said:

I may not be very smart but i think men should not have a say @ all when it has to do with abortion. Your not the one who is pregnant She is.

Nah I wouldn't be so black-and-white over it tbh mate. Yes I agree that the woman should have the right to choose, but should the pregnancy be through the failure of contraception etc where both the mother and father to-be are in a relationship, then I would say the father has (almost) as much right to decide as the woman does - it's his baby too. The woman will always have the final say, but not taking how the man feels into consideration would be quite inhuman in it's own right tbh.