39 replies to this topic

[smooder]

First the Augusta Mangusta

Top crusing speed is 278 km/h compared to the apache longbows 260km/h
It can reach 561km on its internal fuel compared to 400km of the apache longbow.
Add that to its faster rate of climb and more you got quite a good competitor.
All built in europe.
Mangusta
Apache

Ok, next the Centauro Tank Destroyer.

I dont know what its competitors would be but with a top speed for all varients of the Centauro in excess of 100km/h I'd say that was pretty fast.
I'll quote a few more things about this that might sound impressive.

"The Centauro armoured fighting vehicles can negotiate gradients up to 60%, fording depth of 1.5m without preparation, and have a turning radius of 9m."

"The Centauro reconnaissance anti-tank vehicle has a crew of four (commander, gunner, loader and driver) and is equipped with an Oto Melara 105mm / 52 calibre gun."

Ok, next, the Ariete, IMO the weakest link, compared to King Abrams.

King abrams: 67 km/h
Ariete: "more than 65 km/h"

I cant find info on cross country speed otherwise I would.

Ok firepower

Both have 120mm guns.

Anyway this one is hard, but I know its substandard compared to its competitors
Abrams
Chalenger II
Leclerc
Leopard II
Ariete

OK, Finally, the dardo, compared with the Warrior of britain.

Again,
maxium road speed of the warrior is 75km/h
"maximum speed" of the dardo is more than 70km/h

The dardo can transverse a gradient at 60%
the Warrior can transverse a gradient at 40%

This one was also hard as I could not find much info on the warrior.

Heres links

Warrior
Dardo

Other Italian military stuff include the Puma

Panther
"The MLV is based on a design by Iveco Defence Vehicles Division of Italy. It is designed primarily for strategic and tactical mobility with a high level of protection against anti-tank and anti-personnel mines, modular and with tuneable armour protection and stealthy design."

I think the reason It is so underated stems back to WW2 and the stereotypes.

What do you think?

Some Videos.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=nLomC9Gdifk Dardo

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=kzk0aqcxcak Stuff

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Rtml8YbSWgM Mangusta

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=xxI1tM9RpJs Moar mangusta

erm.. http://www.youtube.c...h?v=c25nw0lojuY

Not many good videos. The mangusta ones i posted are similar.

Edited by Smooder, 07 July 2007 - 14:35.

[Prophet of the Pimps]

Its under-rated because they haven't seen any live action like Russian or American Hardware has. Also except for the eurofighter and a few other Aircrafts the European military exports are generally not notable and hence the under exposure. lecrec(spelling) is an awesome tank but the fact that only a few country operate it means it will no be noticed by popular culture at large/

[smooder]

In the best tank competition its either the Challenger II, Abrams or Leopard II that get mentioned.
Nothing italian gets mentioned for anything.
It shouldnt for tank but for other stuff...

[Axel of Sweden]

The leopard got some off hte strongest armor and gun in the NATO
, and its cheap

The abrams is more exspensive but got more anti-personel weapon then the leopard,

and is more adapted for desert conditons

The Challenger is also combing feautres off both the abrams and the leoprad,


Face it, all NATO Tanks are pretty mutch equal,

same armament, pretty muth the same armor etc

they,re just adapted for the nations needs

so in the end it,s just a qestion about persoonal taste



but the best IFV, is probably the CV90,

40mm gun, strongest in it,s class,

upgradeable with RBS56 Anti-tank missile(one shot kill)

and is supperior to the bradley in terrain capablites

And is the Basis off most Swedish ARV, AA Vehicles etc,

Whenever the swedish army get something new, they always mount it on a CV90 First!

Edited by Axel of Sweden, 07 July 2007 - 15:48.

[Whitey]

Must

You

Really

Type

Like

This

When

Not

Bringing

Up

Unrelated

Or

Seperate

Points?

Anyway, I am pretty sure that the Mangusta and the Apache vary in many more ways than speed, I don't think the comparison is really fair there, same with the other two.

[Soul]

I think the LAV3 is pretty good machine, there's a variant with a TOW going through testing and I heard there's an AA variant in the works.

But like everyone has said, until the current Italian Military sees some action, we and everyone else will never really know the true effectiveness of there tanks and stuff.

Edited by Soul, 07 July 2007 - 16:55.

[smooder]

I posted a link that shows the weapons of the mangusta.
i dont know what apache are.. so if anyone could post that that would be good.

[Sgt. Nuker]

Wikipedia is a wonderful tool.

Apache statistics

I would put money on the fact that the Italian army hasn't been as battle tested as other countries as of late. I'll be quite honest that I was not aware that some of the hardware the Italians use even existed. Yes, I know, "ignorant yank", but face it. Not a whole lot of people are as aware of Italy's military as you (and a few others) are.


Regards,

Nuker

[CoLT]

I'll admit that I would prefer the Mangusta to the Apache, however, you can't say just how great the Italian Army really is unless it shows off its muscle in an actual fight. Battle testing is far different to controlled tests and excercises.

It's like 2 different body builders. Sure, they might both look tough, but how do you know who would really win in a fight unless they actually fight? It could just be "show-off" muscle. Nobody knows yet.

[Sgt. Rho]

Yep, it is^^

The Stryker can be suited for ANY "job", tankhunting to mobile hospital^^ My fav. version is, and will be foever, the MGS (Mobile Gun System). 125mm (I think) tank cannon.

Stryker

[Areze]

They are underrated because they haven't been tested in real battle instead of simulations and shit.

Also, you should say "Modern Italian Army". The Romans were Italian, and they were far from underrated or unknown, you know, due to the fact they dominated the western world. Then there's the Lombard League and parts of the Holy Roman Empire. Renaissance was Italy's golden age of war. Along with the Roman and some Middle Age eras.

Typo fixed.

Edited by Nightshadow, 08 July 2007 - 09:33.

[smooder]

Has the German army been tested much recently?
Or the French one?

The Italians have gone to Iraq and Lebanon... And maybe Afganistan.

[Areze]

Smooder, on 8 Jul 2007, 7:25, said:

Has the German army been tested much recently?
Or the French one?

Thing is, I heard next to diddly squat with them too.

[Whitey]

Not true. I always hear of how the FAMAS and the Leopard 2 are so great. And that's just to name two objects. They definitely receive more recognition than Italian's military.

[smooder]

which is what im saying.

The Apache is always the BEST! when the mangusta is better in many ways but it is never in the list.

i really think its to do with WW2.

You even hear the shit about Italian cars and motorbikes.

dont get a ducatti coz they have shitty electrics in em

Whys that?

Coz itlaian world war 2 tanks had bad electrics, and broke down all the time?

Yep. exactly why.

Theres not one percent of truth in it.

[Rayburn]

Another reason for this "lack of representation" so to say might be that Italian weaponry isn't that common in the world. Isn't your army the only one that even uses the Ariete? Other than the Ariete or the Leclerc, tanks like the L2 or the T-80 (?) are used by MANY countries around the globe. It's therefore reasonable to test your weapons against those which are most likely to be found on the battlefield. The more countries use a tank, the more it has to be put into consideration by the others. If Italy is the only country worldwide that uses the Ariete, it wouldn't make sense to include it in testing as long as you're not planning on invading Italy. The Leopard on the other hand is way more common. We have it, Spain has it, Greece has it, the Netherlands have it. It's therefore more likely to run into a Leopard which makes it a good idea to reckon with it.

Edited by Rayburn, 08 July 2007 - 17:37.

[Prophet of the Pimps]

apart from the Rafale and Mirage and their aircraft carrier most people don't know shit about French military either. German military is well know because their weapons are more common and exported and used by many nations. Italy just fails at exporting anything and on top of that their weapons are still not battle tested. Another reason for the under exposure is because italy is not a threat so most people dont even bother looking up on Italian hardware. Same can be said for Sweden. they got some awesome hardware but most people are oblivious of this fact.

[Rayburn]

Prophet of the Pimps, on 8 Jul 2007, 20:51, said:

apart from the Rafale and Mirage and their aircraft carrier most people don't know shit about French military either.

True. The only other things I remember are the FAMAS and the Leclerc tank. If I remember correctly, that thing has autoloaders reducing the crew size which is probably the only outstanding feature. Apart from that, there's the "Force de frappe" which is nothing less than the French nuclear weapons command.

[smooder]

Recently the Mangusta has been exported to Turkey and South afria uses Agusta helis, and as i said before, the British Humvee is Italian, so maybe things will change soon.

The Leclerc is famous. Everyone knows it. But yet two countries use it. Why is this, when as someone said, its only feature is an autoloader?

[Axel of Sweden]

Prophet of the Pimps, on 8 Jul 2007, 18:51, said:

apart from the Rafale and Mirage and their aircraft carrier most people don't know shit about French military either. German military is well know because their weapons are more common and exported and used by many nations. Italy just fails at exporting anything and on top of that their weapons are still not battle tested. Another reason for the under exposure is because italy is not a threat so most people dont even bother looking up on Italian hardware. Same can be said for Sweden. they got some awesome hardware but most people are oblivious of this fact.

Indeed

But the point is, that Sweden currently dont have any enemys to use them against

We got the most advanced army in the entire scandinavia, maybe even in europe,

Best MBT,(Half off europe uses it)

IFV With most firepower (40mm cannon)

Top class fighters

Superb artillery

Stealth ships

Everything cheap in service

The only weakness off our military is,we dont have that mutch hardware

[Prophet of the Pimps]

Neither Does Italy. Seriously in Iraq how much of the Italian hardware was even used? i have not heard of an Italian Army Taking down a tank brigade or their planes doing a bombing run. At least the Dutch Airforce as some notoriety for shooting down Yugoslav Mig-29 during the NATO campaign. Italy doesn't even have that. For the most part Italian military is under used, Under exposed, under exported and just plain uncool.

[smooder]

Not much.

Wikipedia
"Centauro was deployed in the former Yugoslavia and Somalia, where the design apparently proved successful. Centauro was usually used to escort motor convoys, for wide area control and for road patrols. Centauros were also deployed during operation Antica Babilonia, the Italian involvement in the Iraq War. During this operation, a Centauro troop took part in the second battle for the bridges of Nassiriya destroying a building with enemy snipers inside^{[citation needed]}. It is currently deployed as part of UNIFIL forces in Lebanon."

"In Italian service, the Mangusta has successfully deployed with UN missions to former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, Somalia and Angola. Three helicopters were deployed in Iraq before the Italian expedition's withdrawal. Also, some are now being shipped to Afghanistan, to reinforce the Italian Army there, which has only infantry units without Italian air support there."

I see what you mean about them being skanky with their hardware

"Dardos were deployed with the Italian Army as part of the Italian contribution to Operation Iraqi Freedom in 2004."

I cant find any info about arietes.

[Prophet of the Pimps]

Peace keeping duty just doesn't cut it because it doesn't get any exposure. Hell Bangladesh has sent out more peace keepers in the last decade but no one bothers discussing their military.

[CoLT]

δαίμο�, on 9 Jul 2007, 0:30, said:

Not true. I always hear of how the FAMAS and the Leopard 2 are so great. And that's just to name two objects. They definitely receive more recognition than Italian's military.

The FAMAS is famous because of its outstanding RoF, its compact size and its accuracy. It is also very widely used by paramilitary and special forces outside of France.

[TehKiller]

My uncle was fighting in the Yugoslav war.....and in the battle in which he almost i got killed (he ran frigging 500 meter with full equipment and dodged tank shells while a tank was chasing him....and during the firefight "support" came which was 4 Centauros and 2 of em got blown away before they could do anything.In the end only one remained and was heavily damaged and it had to withraw before they blew it up to bits....

Point of the event:Centauros arent that great