39 replies to this topic

[Razven]

Well, thank god whoever in the tank can't shoot/forgot about the HE or Canister rounds/broke their MG

[smooder]

4 centauros got blown up in one incident?

normally stuff like that comes onto news on the internet, but I cant find info on that.
Like this on wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia....ki/Challenger_2


"During Operation Iraqi Freedom, some Apaches were damaged in combat, including one captured by Iraqi troops near Karbala on March 24, 2003, and shown on Iraqi television. The captured helicopter was destroyed via airstrike the day after it was captured.^[5] The March 24 attack, against an armored brigade of the Iraqi Republican Guard's Medina Division, was largely unsuccessful, apparently because the tank crews had set up a "flak trap" in broken terrain, employing their guns to good effect.^[6][7] More recently two Apaches were lost along with their crews between January 28 and February 2, 2007 to Iraqi insurgent ground fire in Taji and Najaf.^[8]


An AH-64 provides air support over Tikrit, Iraq on February 24, 2006. The vast majority of Apache helicopters that have taken heavy combat damage have been able to continue their assigned missions and return safely to their bases. For example, of the 33 Apaches employed in the March 24, 2003 attack, 30 were damaged by Iraqi ground fire with several being damaged beyond repair, but only one of these did not make it back to base."

Edited by Smooder, 09 July 2007 - 11:05.

[TehKiller]

Wikipedia aint that usefull since it doesnt have info on most stuff.....though you can find more info on different languages.

[smooder]

I checked loads of different sites for that incident, but couldnt find any, its a major incident if four centauros blow up and would be reported, i cant find any more info on it I would like to know more about it for moddding purposes.

[MIKEY]

Well, the Italian Army will allways be over looked until it takes part in a major conflict like a war agaisnt N. Korea, also, it needs to get rid of its WW2 image of a force that gives up the minute a better army fights back.

Also, if the inncodent involving TehKillers uncle is true, it shows how un-effective a wheeled tank destroyer is, Armoured Cars belong in WW2, not the modern battlefield.

[smooder]

has anyone got a link describing it?

[TehKiller]

ummmm Centauro is a APC not a tank destroyer last time i heard....and it was 2 of em blowed up,one FUBARed and 4th retreated so its 2 blown Centauros not 4...

also Italian army was great during WW2 but their morale was weak due to the fact that on their territories in Europe (Albania,Italy and Dalmatian coast) have rebelled

[smooder]

The point of this thread was to forget world war 2 and yes the morale was low because contrary to popular belief the Italians hated Mussolini, especially in the north. *hides* (is part southern)

[Areze]

Smooder, on 13 Jul 2007, 21:36, said:

The point of this thread was to forget world war 2 and yes the morale was low because contrary to popular belief the Italians hated Mussolini, especially in the north. *hides* (is part southern)

The part with Mussolini is something I heard. When he got choke-slammed by British and American forces (Were the British there?), his own people kicked him out.

[AllStarZ]

Simply put, neither the French nor the Italians were entirely ready for another war. Both of them suffered enormously in the last war. France was still in the throes of political turmoil when it was mobilizing for war, and in both countries, virtually an entire generation of young men disappeared. Italy was no better off with an underdeveloped industry and poor economy, plus as said before, the government failed to unite the nation. Also its not popular belief. Everyone knows Mussolini's a dick.

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Why do people put so much emphasis on statistics? True, they're the easiest way to judge capability but no one factors in anything else, just statistics.

Edited by AllStarZ, 31 July 2007 - 06:58.

[Rayburn]

``Why do people put so much emphasis on statistics? True, they're the easiest way to judge capability but no one factors in anything else, just statistics.´´

Purest truth of the day. Guess why some people were pissed off by these "What's the best [...] of WW2" topics

[narboza22]

AllStarZ, on 31 Jul 2007, 1:58, said:

Simply put, neither the French nor the Italians were entirely ready for another war. Both of them suffered enormously in the last war. France was still in the throes of political turmoil when it was mobilizing for war, and in both countries, virtually an entire generation of young men disappeared. Italy was no better off with an underdeveloped industry and poor economy, plus as said before, the government failed to unite the nation. Also its not popular belief. Everyone knows Mussolini's a dick.

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Why do people put so much emphasis on statistics? True, they're the easiest way to judge capability but no one factors in anything else, just statistics.

Hmmm, Germany suffered a lot more than France or Italy after WW1.

[Dauth]

Yes but Germany had a competent leader who realised the only way to avoid paying war debts until 1980 was to rebuild the country using the military to fund everything (and thus reduce unemployment).

Italy is underrated because they really have only had any glory proir to 400AD, and have become the butt of jokes that were previously aimed at the french, (at least in the UK).

[AllStarZ]

narboza22, on 31 Jul 2007, 3:24, said:

AllStarZ, on 31 Jul 2007, 1:58, said:

Simply put, neither the French nor the Italians were entirely ready for another war. Both of them suffered enormously in the last war. France was still in the throes of political turmoil when it was mobilizing for war, and in both countries, virtually an entire generation of young men disappeared. Italy was no better off with an underdeveloped industry and poor economy, plus as said before, the government failed to unite the nation. Also its not popular belief. Everyone knows Mussolini's a dick.

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Why do people put so much emphasis on statistics? True, they're the easiest way to judge capability but no one factors in anything else, just statistics.

Hmmm, Germany suffered a lot more than France or Italy after WW1.

World War I literally changed the landscape of France. By the time the war went into Germany it was mostly mobile. Furthermore at the eve of war France had a population of 40 million whilst the Germans had a population of 60 million something, in which a large majority were men. Same with Italy. Poor war planning and preparation resulted in the loss of many men.

On the other hand, Germany suffered massive humiliation. They surrendered according to Wilson's Fourteen Points, but the French and British, who were angry after a war which ruined their countries and culled their young men, treated Germany as if she lost. There is no joy in partial victory after sacrificing so much. They forced Germany to take the blame for the war, and Germany could not bargain because she had no choice. Rebellion incapacitated the ability to bargain with the Western Allies.

Germany was in fact, already moving towards remobilization as early as the late 1920s, before Hitler came to power. Former pilots joined "flight schools" and trained potential pilots who at first, trained in gliders, then went on to obsolete bi-planes, then on to Bf 109s. Point is, because World War I happened, World War II may as well happen too. Its a continuation of unresolved issues as much as the Cold War is about the birth of Communism in 1917.

Italy is underrated because the 1600s saw the gradual decline of the Italian city states and the weakening of the Papacy due to the Lutheran Reformation. The Thirty Years War ruined the Italians, and the invasion of the peninsula by Napoleon made it worse, as afterwards, Italy was cut up. It wouldn't be until the reunification in the late 1800s that Italy again becomes a major player in European politics.

[Overdose]

Having an underated army dude is much better than having a weak or even a powerful army.

For a number of reasons:

1)The element of surprise
2)Experimental/untested equipment makes it harder for a possible attacker to size you up and strategize.
3)It's hard to defend, attack or counter things you have little to no info about.


Those 3 things may just what keeps your country from being attacked or involved in a war. And war sucks a lot.