60 replies to this topic

[E.V.E.]

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hmmm define para normal ? becuase in my experience there is no such thing as normal not to say your view point isn't valid I'm just curious.

Kid Pornography, bestiality, Raping, vomitting ...

You get the Point.

- E.V.E.

[Efrith]

In my point of view, moral has nothing to do with it, for moral is just a feeling, and people can ignore them with no problem.
But it is wrong, for it is to defy some honor, and to corrupt a soul and even more.
Pronographic material is something which only exists for pleasure and lust, which is a sin.
So for my point of view, it is wrong.

[Wizard]

Jez! Where do you start on this one?

E.V.E., on 23 Nov 2007, 13:19, said:

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hmmm define para normal ? becuase in my experience there is no such thing as normal not to say your view point isn't valid I'm just curious.

Kid Pornography, bestiality, Raping, vomitting ...
You get the Point.
- E.V.E.

E.V.E. aside from the vomitting, your above isn't paranormal or morally wrong, it's just plain ILLEGAL!
Back to main topic, hope you are sitting comfortably.
Do I think it is morally wrong to watch one or more people indulging in sexual (ie pornographic) acts? Yes. However, when these acts are videoed and photographed and published across the globe, then no! How can that be morally wrong? It's like saying that watching the evening news is morally wrong as you are seeing the suffering of thousands of people rolled out by the cameras. Porn isn't wrong. In fact most of it is natural. I say natural, because all they are doing is having sex, and last time I checked my own moral code (it didn't take long to read btw ), sex is a pretty normal thing to do. There as some glaring exceptions to this rule, as E.V.E. has clearly illustrated for us, but it isn't morally wrong to watch, view or read those acts not yet defined as illegal.

I also find myself disagreeing with Match's pov on this subject. I might be only one of the few mentally stable people left (leave that judgement up to those who know me) but images can't cause someone to act in a certain way. Someone who chooses to watch porn is not going to be influenced by what they see anymore than by being aroused. And as the images are of 99% of the time, real I am not sure I follow that part of the argument. How does it also degrade mental discipline? If there is porn available or not will someone not choose to relieve themselves? And on the point of women's bodies, they need to be protected? I am not following this argument at all. To look at an attractive women, clothed or not, does not mean you objectify her. If she is in a porn movie, how has she become an object anymore than, say, well any supermodel or Hollywood starlet, aside from the fact that she has the balls to actually admit that it's her body that gets her the job?!?

Sex is THE most basic instinct in a human, aside possibly from survival. I fail to see how it can be wrong to have sex, in either pornographic movies, or with more than one person, or for pleasure, if we can indeed do that whilst no other living creature can! We have conscious thought for a purpose, to use it.

Edited by Wizard, 23 November 2007 - 13:55.

[Mathias]

Match, on 23 Nov 2007, 8:10, said:

Mathias, on 22 Nov 2007, 22:53, said:

Why should I have self control in resisting something which ultimately doesn't hurt me at all?

I suppose that'd depend on what we mean by "hurt."

If by hurt you mean "release tension", "unleash endorphins into the bloodstream" and "feel good about yourself", in addition to feeling no shame over doing such an incredibly harmless thing, then I fail to see the point. I really can't see any reason to go and be shameful about the way we are, because it IS the way we are, like it or not.

As for the legality of porn, it's both morally and legally justified. People perform a service and get paid for it, voluntarily, and a consumer group demands the resulting product. It's not degrading to the women, who are paid for it and do it because they want to.

Edited by Mathias, 23 November 2007 - 14:19.

[Dr HaxX]

Mathias, on 23 Nov 2007, 6:10, said:

Match, on 23 Nov 2007, 8:10, said:

Mathias, on 22 Nov 2007, 22:53, said:

Why should I have self control in resisting something which ultimately doesn't hurt me at all?

I suppose that'd depend on what we mean by "hurt."

If by hurt you mean "release tension", "unleash endorphins into the bloodstream" and "feel good about yourself", in addition to feeling no shame over doing such an incredibly harmless thing, then I fail to see the point. I really can't see any reason to go and be shameful about the way we are, because it IS the way we are, like it or not.

Do not many drugs such as nicotine (among many others) do the same thing? Cigarette smokers argued forever that they where not harmful. Then research showed that they contained MANY harmful toxins, addictants, and caused physical degeneration. That argument my friend, is overused and has little weight to it.

Let me put it this way: your body will only ever make a certain number of sperm in one lifetime. When the male sperm-producing organs stop producing this, the male reproductive organ has no purpose and begins to degenerate. At this point certain physical conditions (erectile disfunction to name one) begin to plague the male that is no longer fit to reproduce. NOW, do you really want to waste that precious sperm on a trash bin or a female? If you didn't answer the second one, you have some other problems beyond masturbation addction. -_-

Mathias, on 23 Nov 2007, 6:10, said:

As for the legality of porn, it's both morally and legally justified. People perform a service and get paid for it, voluntarily, and a consumer group demands the resulting product. It's not degrading to the women, who are paid for it and do it because they want to.

So you reason that just because there is a demand for the resulting product it should be legal? Again, back to the drugs analogy. There is a VAST demand for illegal chemical consumable compounds, so are they morally justified? Drugs destroy friendships and families. One of my best friends found out a few months ago that her dad has been addicted to a neurologically lethal illegal drug since she was born. It crushed her. Her mother had been trying to hide it because she didn't want my friend to hate her father... That family I'm sad to say is near collapse. That is one of a few DOZEN examples of drug related emotional destruction.

Porn has the same effect... A young man may become addicted to porn and then get married some years later. He and his wife love eachother immensely, but sexually she doesn't satisfy him. So he goes back to porn when she's not arround. When she finds out what he's been doing, it devastates her. Its directly like saying "you aren't enough for me so I'm going to let something fake satisfy me the right way" That instance has destroyed countless marriages in both mine and my friends lives. I just don't see how you can say porn is not destructive? Cynxos is very right. It degrades your honor.

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Pornographic material is something which only exists for pleasure and lust

If you do ANYTHING soley for that reason, you are shamefully wronging yourself. Stealing something from your body you can never give back. But when there is a woman involved, it is purely a gift of love and trust between the man and the woman. You cannot really tell me porn is okay...

Edited by Match, 23 November 2007 - 18:31.

[Mathias]

And suddenly we're preaching.

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Let me put it this way: your body will only ever make a certain number of sperm in one lifetime. When the male sperm-producing organs stop producing this, the male reproductive organ has no purpose and begins to degenerate. At this point certain physical conditions (erectile disfunction to name one) begin to plague the male that is no longer fit to reproduce. NOW, do you really want to waste that precious sperm on a trash bin or a female? If you didn't answer the second one, you have some other problems beyond masturbation addction. -_-

Who told you that? Research during the last century has pretty much proven that there are only health benefits to be had from masturbation. Including, but not limited to; Lower blood pressure, stronger ejaculatory muscles, less risk of prostate cancer and cardiovasculary problems, and less chance of experiencing premature ejaculation and related problems during intercourse. Looks like your opinions stem from superstition. Erectile dysfunction has nothing to do with masturbation, and the body doesn't have a set "quota" of sperm to use during a lifetime.

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So you reason that just because there is a demand for the resulting product it should be legal?

As long as it isn't harmful. To put it to the point, porn is only harmful if the consumer is an irresponsible idiot.

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Porn has the same effect... A young man may become addicted to porn and then get married some years later. He and his wife love eachother immensely, but sexually she doesn't satisfy him. So he goes back to porn when she's not arround. When she finds out what he's been doing, it devastates her. Its directly like saying "you aren't enough for me so I'm going to let something fake satisfy me the right way" That instance has destroyed countless marriages in both mine and my friends lives.

I've never heard of someone substituting sex with a loved partner for porn. Something else must have been rotten in those relationships.

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I just don't see how you can say porn is not destructive? Cynxos is very right. It degrades your honor.

If you let it degrade your honor, it's only because of your contempt for your own drifts and desires.

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Pornographic material is something which only exists for pleasure and lust

If you do ANYTHING soley for that reason, you are shamefully wronging yourself. Stealing something from your body you can never give back.

That makes alot of sense. I better stop taking dumps too, or else I will never be able to give my own body back the gift of shit.

Edited by Mathias, 23 November 2007 - 19:47.

[Dr HaxX]

I am done trying to reason debating Mathias. If anyone ELSE wants to discuss this, fine. But Mathias and I have made our opinions on the issue very clear. I highly doubt anything good will come of a further discussion between us on this topic.

Edited by Match, 23 November 2007 - 20:51.

[Mathias]

I guess the topic would shift to religion if we carried this any further. Just one thing; its not trying to "reason" with me when we're debatants on a discussion forum. You better damn expect your arguments to be picked apart by people with different opinions.

[Dr HaxX]

Indeed. Incorrect choice of words on my part. Apologies.

[CodeCat]

Match, on 23 Nov 2007, 19:30, said:

Let me put it this way: your body will only ever make a certain number of sperm in one lifetime. When the male sperm-producing organs stop producing this, the male reproductive organ has no purpose and begins to degenerate. At this point certain physical conditions (erectile disfunction to name one) begin to plague the male that is no longer fit to reproduce. NOW, do you really want to waste that precious sperm on a trash bin or a female? If you didn't answer the second one, you have some other problems beyond masturbation addction. -_-

Sperm has a limited lifespan and will be produced regardless of whether it's needed. So would you rather impregnate your loved one with old, degenerated and possibly genetically damaged sperm, or fresh new healthy sperm?

[Dr. Strangelove]

Cynxos, on 23 Nov 2007, 13:48, said:

In my point of view, moral has nothing to do with it, for moral is just a feeling, and people can ignore them with no problem.
But it is wrong, for it is to defy some honor, and to corrupt a soul and even more.
Pronographic material is something which only exists for pleasure and lust, which is a sin.
So for my point of view, it is wrong.

Therefore ice-cream is wrong too,and posting here, and playing ZH, and talking to people, and social interaction because it gives me pleasure.So I'm supposed to go through the only life I have without anything that makes me happy at all!?What a waste to make the only things that I like, the happy things, immoral.

Pornography does not cause any pain/suffering, therefore it is not immoral.

[General]

I think its morally wrong in public but also think its almost a must for this century' children

[CoLT]

The problem with the Mathias-Match debate is that Match is arguing against porn because of the danger the addiction has. Mathias on the other hand appears to be debating the use of porn.

And that is the reason it is going nowhere because you two aren't even arguing the same thing.

In my opinion, addictions to anything, be it drugs, alcohol, pornography or gaming can have their dangers. There is no saying that simply because you can become addicted to something means that you will be.
It is true that there are many health benefits to be had from regular, maybe infrequent, masturbation. However, to practice masturbation to the detriment of all other aspects of life is a grave danger.

I don't think it is degrading to either men or women plainly because they wanted to be in the movie/photo (provided it's legitimately produced material). They are being paid to do what they are doing and they chose to be in it. They are Porn Stars, similar to Movie Stars. The only difference is who they're sleeping with is their work and not the work of the tabloids. They can just as easily say no to taking part in it but they consent to doing it, so they do not represent real men and women at all.

Now this might sound a little strange but I'd bring something else to the table. Educational value.
We've all or will have been given sexual education classes at school or at sunday school, or even by parents. Yes, it does teach you what that thing is between your legs and where babies come from. But what else does it really teach you?
This is where I'm suggesting pornography may play a part. You see, you are taught that your

Spoiler

penis

goes into a woman's

Spoiler

vagina

but are you really taught how to have sex?
The actors in a pornographic film are really having sex and by watching it, maybe you might learn how to do it? I'm not saying this necessarily happens but I'm throwing it out there as an idea. Who knows? Maybe people really do learn things from it.
If this does happen in real life, then maybe the guy who saw a couple of pornos in his life might satisfy is partner better than the guy who just knows that he puts his thingy in her and.... well, then what?

[Whitey]

Isn't the ability to have sex an instinct?

[Lord Atlantis]

Well, if it weren't an instinct then I think we would be having some problems. Sex is just one of those things that we don't have to "learn", per say, how to do.

[CoLT]

Oh, of course, I forgot that we don't hear about guys who "put it in the wrong place" or "don't know what they are doing"

[Whitey]

Anyone who puts it in the wrong place or doesn't know what they are doing does not deserve to reproduce.

[CoLT]

True. But it still happens.

I don't think it is possible for men to be born instinctively knowing how to completely satisfy anyone, just like that. There are somethings that do need to be taught.

[Whitey]

Satisfaction can just as easily be learned through experience.

[CoLT]

Yes it can, I was merely suggesting that maybe pornography might give a little insight on how to do it. A means of getting started. Probably not likely but it's possible.

And of course real experience is better.

[Mathias]

Pornography doesn't compare to sex ed, but you can still learn something from it.

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The problem with the Mathias-Match debate is that Match is arguing against porn because of the danger the addiction has. Mathias on the other hand appears to be debating the use of porn.

To be honest, I was just running him out of arguments to prove that his opinions are entirely subjective and have no basis in scientific research or statistics.

Edited by Mathias, 28 November 2007 - 12:19.

[Nid]

Porn never has, and I doubt it ever will, do anything for me, it just doest 'turn me on' like the real thing does. I cannot argue a very valid point, therefore, but I can't say I am against the idea of it. If the people involved in the pornographic construction and viewing of it are willing to do so, then I can't see what is wrong with it.

[Dr HaxX]

Mathias, on 28 Nov 2007, 4:13, said:

Pornography doesn't compare to sex ed, but you can still learn something from it.

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The problem with the Mathias-Match debate is that Match is arguing against porn because of the danger the addiction has. Mathias on the other hand appears to be debating the use of porn.

To be honest, I was just running him out of arguments to prove that his opinions are entirely subjective and have no basis in scientific research or statistics.

Oh no, I did certainly not and never will run out of arguments. I just ran out of reason to continue with them. I knew what I was saying was doing nothing positive, so like lightning into the earth, my energy is wasted.

[Foxhound]

Match, on 23 Nov 2007, 13:30, said:

Let me put it this way: your body will only ever make a certain number of sperm in one lifetime. When the male sperm-producing organs stop producing this, the male reproductive organ has no purpose and begins to degenerate. At this point certain physical conditions (erectile disfunction to name one) begin to plague the male that is no longer fit to reproduce. NOW, do you really want to waste that precious sperm on a trash bin or a female? If you didn't answer the second one, you have some other problems beyond masturbation addction. -_-

They'll have drugs for that soon enough...

As for porn, as long as it's legal, consenting, and not some crazy fetish, I think it's fine whatever a person chooses.

Edited by Foxhound, 29 November 2007 - 07:07.