Best Attack Helicopter
CommanderJB
15 Jun 2008
With all this business about tanks, jets, special forces and other military vehicles and aircraft, I felt the world of rotary aviation has been rather left out. So, cast your votes for what you think is the world's most capable and lethal attack helicopter. Please refrain from getting overly patriotic and edging into flaming territory, and please provide sources for claims about performance/stats (also, feel free to point out if something I've stated is incorrect)- most people on this forum are a lot more mature than that I know, but military discussions have something of a reputation for getting out of hand.
Anyhow, here are the aircraft on offer:
The AH-64D Apache Longbow is probably the world's best-known attack helicopter, and is the aircraft of choice when the U.S. Army goes tank-hunting. Featuring a large radar that allows it to engage targets with its 8km-range Hellfire II ATGMs from behind cover, it is optimised for a extremely-low-level 'pop-up attack' mission, but also carries Hydra unguided rocket pods and a 30mm cannon with 1000 rounds of ammunition which give it functionality against targets such as fortifications, light vehicles and infantry. Advanced sensors and communications equipment allow it to operate in all weathers at any time of day or night, and the latest upgrades even give some the ability to command UAVs. It has been extensively used in Iraq and Afghanistan, and has mostly given a good account of itself, destroying over 500 enemy tanks in the Gulf Wars, though it lacks heavy armour and several have been damaged by ground fire. Boron armour plates protect the pilot and gunner from rounds of up to 23mm in calibre, though the rest of the airframe is not armoured and can only withstand machine-gun projectiles.
Images:
High-res:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...8/AH-64_CM2.jpg
The Mil Mi-24PN 'Hind-F' is the latest version of the venerable Hind attack helicopter which became so well-known in Afghanistan, and broke several world records for airspeed and certain other attributes when first introduced. It's unique for its ability to act as a low-capacity troop transport, carrying eight passengers in addition to the pilot and gunner, and carries a plethora of other weapons including a turreted 12.7mm four-barrel gatling gun, two fixed 23mm cannon, and a heavy load of other external stores typically including two or four pods carrying 20 unguided rockets, Igla/Vympel R-73 (AA-11 'Archer') missile pods which target enemy helicopters and in the latter case jets, and 9K114 Shturm ('AT-6 'Spiral-C') ATGMs with a range of up to 7km, or 9M120 Ataka-V (AT-9 'Spiral-2') ATGMs with a range of 1-6km, but can also carry bombs, 350mm unguided rockets, or all sorts of other things. It's affectionately known as 'Leutashiy tank' or flying tank by pilots for its heavy armour and impressive ability to take damage, including surviving missile hits and rounds of up to 20mm in most areas of the fuselage, and became known as the 'Khadzurka' or gravedigger by Taliban fighters in the Afghanistan conflict because it could not only kill you but make a hole big enough to bury you in while it did so. It has rather unspectacular manoeuvrability however, is not very well suited for night operations thanks to high infra-red signatures and relatively poor sighting equipment of its own (this has been somewhat remedied in the PN version, but not completely) and the design is ageing significantly, having first appeared in the early 1970's.
Images:
The Mil Mi-28 Night Hunter 'Havoc' is a attack helicopter based off the Mi-24 but heavily optimised for the anti-tank role. It carries a 30mm turreted gun, 9M120 Ataka-V (AT-9 'Spiral-2') ATGMs with a range of 1-6km, and the option to fit unguided rocket pods, bombs, or Igla /Vympel R-73 (AA-11 'Archer') AAMs. It lacks the ability to carry troops (though it does have a compartment with just enough room to squeeze three people inside - this is intended to allow for rescue of downed aircrews), but is considerably faster and more manoeuvrable. The Mi-28N won the Russian Army's competition to find a helicopter to replace the ageing Mi-24s for the anti-tank and specifically night-attack roles. It is quite heavily armoured in most areas, with the cockpit module having particularly extensive protection against cannon rounds. A large radome allows enhanced target-detection and weapons guidance, and sufficient thermal and other sighting equipment is installed to allow effective operation in all weathers, day or night.
Images:
The Kamov Ka-50 Black Shark/Werewolf is a modern Russian attack helicopter produced by the Kamov design bureau. Featuring the bureau's penchant for coaxial rotors, thus eliminating the need for a tail rotor, it is highly agile and carries an impressive weapons layout; standard armament is two six-missile pods of powerful 9K121 Vikhr (AT-16 'Scallion') ATGMs with a range of up to 10km, and two pods of twenty 80mm unguided rockets, or one pod of rockets and one Vympel R-73 (AA-11 'Archer') heat-seeking air-to-air missile which can even be used on enemy fighter jets. Its fixed gun system is an unusually powerful 30mm cannon (the 2A42, effectively the same gun as that on the BMP-2 IFV) in a semi-rigid mount; despite the fact that this cannot be turned very far in any direction on its own, the aircraft's manoeuvrability is such that the weapons control system can manoeuvre the entire Ka-50 to point at a target in order to fire the gun as fast as the turret on an AH-64 or an Mi-28 can turn. The gun has selectable rates of fire, and typically carries 500 rounds of ammunition, with rounds alternating between HE-frag and AP. In addition, one of the weapons stations can also be mounted with a twin 23mm gun pod with 940 rounds of ammunition if extra gun firepower is required. Electronic countermeasures pods are mounted on the wingtips.
The aircraft is moderately armoured; the pilot's cabin is fully protected against 23mm gunfire, and the cockpit glass can withstand 12.7mm machine-gun rounds, but the rest of the Ka-50 has minimal armoured protection. However, the lack of a tail rotor considerably improves survivability as the aircraft won't go into a terminal spin if it is damaged, as has been proven a weak point on Hinds, Apaches and other designs.
However, the imaging systems on the stock Ka-50, while incorporating are not really good enough to enable the helicopter to be properly effective at night, and so it is used as a day attack helicopter only, with the Mi-28N filling the night attack role. The upgraded Ka-50N, however, incorporates a dedicated night-sighting pod including FLIR, millimeter-wave radar and an electro-optical targeting system; however, this pod this takes up one of the wing weapons stations, meaning the Ka-50N has less room for weapons, but can operate effectively in any conditions.
The Ka-50's excellent manoeuvrability has allowed it to be used with high effectiveness in mountainous terrain in Chechnya. However, as it has only a single seat for a crewmember, the pilot also has to operate the weapons while flying, and so there have been concerns that this work overload may prevent it form being as capable in combat as a two-seater design.
Images:
The Kamov Ka-52 Alligator 'Hokum-B' is an upgrade to the Ka-50 which widens the nose in order to fit a second crewmember to operate the weapons, eliminating the work overload problems encountered in the original Ka-50. The second crewmember also enables the aircraft to perform additional tasks, and the Ka-52 has been fitted with upgraded communications equipment to serve as an airborne command post for other Ka-50s or helicopter forces. This extra capacity comes at the cost of a slightly higher radar signature, a small loss to manoeuvrability and speed, and reduced the vision field of the pilot to one side thanks to the seating arrangement being an unusual side-by-side configuration. However, it retains the turreted sighting equipment from the original Ka-50, enabling the weapons loadout and performance to stay unchanged, and also gets the Ka-50N's night-attack package as standard, now in a turret on the nose and not requiring weapons space. 12 Ka-52s are being purchased by the Russian Army as command helicopters and the rather less interesting role of a Ka-50 trainer.
The Ka-52 gains my vote for its modern design, extraordinary aerial performance, enhanced day-night all-weather capacity over the base model, and especially powerful weapons which can now be better utilised thanks to a dedicated gunner. The Ka-50 is good, but in my opinion this is beyond question better.
Images:
The Eurocopter Tiger is a highly modern European twin-crew attack helicopter designed for medium-weight fire support and armed reconnaissance. It can mount a turreted 30mm cannon, HOT3 or the new PARS 3 LR ATGMs with ranges of 75-4000m and 500-6000m (8000m for upgraded version) respectively, and unguided rocket pods. They are currently used by Germany and France for medium attack and Australia for armed reconnaissance (the Australian ARH version mounts Hellfire II ATGMs instead of the European missiles, which have a range of up to 8000m). Tigers also carry pods of four Stinger missiles for close-in defence against aircraft, mostly helicopters. They are also very fast and agile, and are considerably lighter than most other helicopters on this list, but also have a lower capacity for external stores of weapons.
Images:
The Bell AH-1Z Viper is the United States Marine Corps' new primary attack helicopter, the latest version of the venerable AH-1 Cobra that saw action as far back as Vietnam. The Viper features upgraded targeting equipment, a new four-blade rotor giving enhanced payload capacity, and is fitted with a tri-barrel rotary 20mm gun with 750 rounds of ammunition, and a reasonable capacity for external stores including Hydra 70mm rocket pods, AIM-9 Sidewinder heatseekers for close-in air defence, and Hellfire II missiles with up to 8km range. It has FLIR and other sighting systems allowing it to operate day or night and in adverse weather, and also can be fitted with the AH-64D's Longbow radar, though at the cost of a wingtip weapons station. It's not as heavy and has a slightly lower stores capacity when compared to the AH-64, but it's considerably more rugged, features folding rotor blades for use on carriers and is also faster.
Images:
Lastly, the AgustaWestland A129 Mangusta is the other main European entry into the attack helicopter market. Developed by Italy in the 1980s, they can carry Hellfire IIs (max 8km range), TOW (max 3,750m range) and the Israeli SPIKE-ER (800-8000m range) in addition to their fixed armament of one triple-barrelled rotary 20mm gun with 500 rounds of ammunition, though this is not always fitted. The standard mix of 70/50mm unguided rockets or a 12.7mm machine gun pod can be fitted, in addition to Mistral or Stinger missiles, though these are only really suitable for use against other helicopters due to the fact that they remain essentially unchanged from the MANPADS version. The latest version of the A129, an export version for the Turkish Army, gains a mast-mounted radar and uses Turkish-developed UMATS ATGMs (these are similar to Hellfire IIs in performance).
Images:
Edit, the rest of the aircraft are now added with updated info. Also, my apologies, quite right Waris; the Hind is indeed very fast for a helicopter. However, it's still much less manoeuvrable than the rest of the aircraft here, even with the shorter winglets and more powerful engines introduced in the upgrade to the PN version.
Edit, changed Apache Longbow image to one with the radome and is a better picture overall.
Edited by CommanderJB, 20 June 2008 - 08:43.
Anyhow, here are the aircraft on offer:
The AH-64D Apache Longbow is probably the world's best-known attack helicopter, and is the aircraft of choice when the U.S. Army goes tank-hunting. Featuring a large radar that allows it to engage targets with its 8km-range Hellfire II ATGMs from behind cover, it is optimised for a extremely-low-level 'pop-up attack' mission, but also carries Hydra unguided rocket pods and a 30mm cannon with 1000 rounds of ammunition which give it functionality against targets such as fortifications, light vehicles and infantry. Advanced sensors and communications equipment allow it to operate in all weathers at any time of day or night, and the latest upgrades even give some the ability to command UAVs. It has been extensively used in Iraq and Afghanistan, and has mostly given a good account of itself, destroying over 500 enemy tanks in the Gulf Wars, though it lacks heavy armour and several have been damaged by ground fire. Boron armour plates protect the pilot and gunner from rounds of up to 23mm in calibre, though the rest of the airframe is not armoured and can only withstand machine-gun projectiles.
Images:
High-res:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...8/AH-64_CM2.jpg
The Mil Mi-24PN 'Hind-F' is the latest version of the venerable Hind attack helicopter which became so well-known in Afghanistan, and broke several world records for airspeed and certain other attributes when first introduced. It's unique for its ability to act as a low-capacity troop transport, carrying eight passengers in addition to the pilot and gunner, and carries a plethora of other weapons including a turreted 12.7mm four-barrel gatling gun, two fixed 23mm cannon, and a heavy load of other external stores typically including two or four pods carrying 20 unguided rockets, Igla/Vympel R-73 (AA-11 'Archer') missile pods which target enemy helicopters and in the latter case jets, and 9K114 Shturm ('AT-6 'Spiral-C') ATGMs with a range of up to 7km, or 9M120 Ataka-V (AT-9 'Spiral-2') ATGMs with a range of 1-6km, but can also carry bombs, 350mm unguided rockets, or all sorts of other things. It's affectionately known as 'Leutashiy tank' or flying tank by pilots for its heavy armour and impressive ability to take damage, including surviving missile hits and rounds of up to 20mm in most areas of the fuselage, and became known as the 'Khadzurka' or gravedigger by Taliban fighters in the Afghanistan conflict because it could not only kill you but make a hole big enough to bury you in while it did so. It has rather unspectacular manoeuvrability however, is not very well suited for night operations thanks to high infra-red signatures and relatively poor sighting equipment of its own (this has been somewhat remedied in the PN version, but not completely) and the design is ageing significantly, having first appeared in the early 1970's.
Images:
The Mil Mi-28 Night Hunter 'Havoc' is a attack helicopter based off the Mi-24 but heavily optimised for the anti-tank role. It carries a 30mm turreted gun, 9M120 Ataka-V (AT-9 'Spiral-2') ATGMs with a range of 1-6km, and the option to fit unguided rocket pods, bombs, or Igla /Vympel R-73 (AA-11 'Archer') AAMs. It lacks the ability to carry troops (though it does have a compartment with just enough room to squeeze three people inside - this is intended to allow for rescue of downed aircrews), but is considerably faster and more manoeuvrable. The Mi-28N won the Russian Army's competition to find a helicopter to replace the ageing Mi-24s for the anti-tank and specifically night-attack roles. It is quite heavily armoured in most areas, with the cockpit module having particularly extensive protection against cannon rounds. A large radome allows enhanced target-detection and weapons guidance, and sufficient thermal and other sighting equipment is installed to allow effective operation in all weathers, day or night.
Images:
The Kamov Ka-50 Black Shark/Werewolf is a modern Russian attack helicopter produced by the Kamov design bureau. Featuring the bureau's penchant for coaxial rotors, thus eliminating the need for a tail rotor, it is highly agile and carries an impressive weapons layout; standard armament is two six-missile pods of powerful 9K121 Vikhr (AT-16 'Scallion') ATGMs with a range of up to 10km, and two pods of twenty 80mm unguided rockets, or one pod of rockets and one Vympel R-73 (AA-11 'Archer') heat-seeking air-to-air missile which can even be used on enemy fighter jets. Its fixed gun system is an unusually powerful 30mm cannon (the 2A42, effectively the same gun as that on the BMP-2 IFV) in a semi-rigid mount; despite the fact that this cannot be turned very far in any direction on its own, the aircraft's manoeuvrability is such that the weapons control system can manoeuvre the entire Ka-50 to point at a target in order to fire the gun as fast as the turret on an AH-64 or an Mi-28 can turn. The gun has selectable rates of fire, and typically carries 500 rounds of ammunition, with rounds alternating between HE-frag and AP. In addition, one of the weapons stations can also be mounted with a twin 23mm gun pod with 940 rounds of ammunition if extra gun firepower is required. Electronic countermeasures pods are mounted on the wingtips.
The aircraft is moderately armoured; the pilot's cabin is fully protected against 23mm gunfire, and the cockpit glass can withstand 12.7mm machine-gun rounds, but the rest of the Ka-50 has minimal armoured protection. However, the lack of a tail rotor considerably improves survivability as the aircraft won't go into a terminal spin if it is damaged, as has been proven a weak point on Hinds, Apaches and other designs.
However, the imaging systems on the stock Ka-50, while incorporating are not really good enough to enable the helicopter to be properly effective at night, and so it is used as a day attack helicopter only, with the Mi-28N filling the night attack role. The upgraded Ka-50N, however, incorporates a dedicated night-sighting pod including FLIR, millimeter-wave radar and an electro-optical targeting system; however, this pod this takes up one of the wing weapons stations, meaning the Ka-50N has less room for weapons, but can operate effectively in any conditions.
The Ka-50's excellent manoeuvrability has allowed it to be used with high effectiveness in mountainous terrain in Chechnya. However, as it has only a single seat for a crewmember, the pilot also has to operate the weapons while flying, and so there have been concerns that this work overload may prevent it form being as capable in combat as a two-seater design.
Images:
The Kamov Ka-52 Alligator 'Hokum-B' is an upgrade to the Ka-50 which widens the nose in order to fit a second crewmember to operate the weapons, eliminating the work overload problems encountered in the original Ka-50. The second crewmember also enables the aircraft to perform additional tasks, and the Ka-52 has been fitted with upgraded communications equipment to serve as an airborne command post for other Ka-50s or helicopter forces. This extra capacity comes at the cost of a slightly higher radar signature, a small loss to manoeuvrability and speed, and reduced the vision field of the pilot to one side thanks to the seating arrangement being an unusual side-by-side configuration. However, it retains the turreted sighting equipment from the original Ka-50, enabling the weapons loadout and performance to stay unchanged, and also gets the Ka-50N's night-attack package as standard, now in a turret on the nose and not requiring weapons space. 12 Ka-52s are being purchased by the Russian Army as command helicopters and the rather less interesting role of a Ka-50 trainer.
The Ka-52 gains my vote for its modern design, extraordinary aerial performance, enhanced day-night all-weather capacity over the base model, and especially powerful weapons which can now be better utilised thanks to a dedicated gunner. The Ka-50 is good, but in my opinion this is beyond question better.
Images:
The Eurocopter Tiger is a highly modern European twin-crew attack helicopter designed for medium-weight fire support and armed reconnaissance. It can mount a turreted 30mm cannon, HOT3 or the new PARS 3 LR ATGMs with ranges of 75-4000m and 500-6000m (8000m for upgraded version) respectively, and unguided rocket pods. They are currently used by Germany and France for medium attack and Australia for armed reconnaissance (the Australian ARH version mounts Hellfire II ATGMs instead of the European missiles, which have a range of up to 8000m). Tigers also carry pods of four Stinger missiles for close-in defence against aircraft, mostly helicopters. They are also very fast and agile, and are considerably lighter than most other helicopters on this list, but also have a lower capacity for external stores of weapons.
Images:
The Bell AH-1Z Viper is the United States Marine Corps' new primary attack helicopter, the latest version of the venerable AH-1 Cobra that saw action as far back as Vietnam. The Viper features upgraded targeting equipment, a new four-blade rotor giving enhanced payload capacity, and is fitted with a tri-barrel rotary 20mm gun with 750 rounds of ammunition, and a reasonable capacity for external stores including Hydra 70mm rocket pods, AIM-9 Sidewinder heatseekers for close-in air defence, and Hellfire II missiles with up to 8km range. It has FLIR and other sighting systems allowing it to operate day or night and in adverse weather, and also can be fitted with the AH-64D's Longbow radar, though at the cost of a wingtip weapons station. It's not as heavy and has a slightly lower stores capacity when compared to the AH-64, but it's considerably more rugged, features folding rotor blades for use on carriers and is also faster.
Images:
Lastly, the AgustaWestland A129 Mangusta is the other main European entry into the attack helicopter market. Developed by Italy in the 1980s, they can carry Hellfire IIs (max 8km range), TOW (max 3,750m range) and the Israeli SPIKE-ER (800-8000m range) in addition to their fixed armament of one triple-barrelled rotary 20mm gun with 500 rounds of ammunition, though this is not always fitted. The standard mix of 70/50mm unguided rockets or a 12.7mm machine gun pod can be fitted, in addition to Mistral or Stinger missiles, though these are only really suitable for use against other helicopters due to the fact that they remain essentially unchanged from the MANPADS version. The latest version of the A129, an export version for the Turkish Army, gains a mast-mounted radar and uses Turkish-developed UMATS ATGMs (these are similar to Hellfire IIs in performance).
Images:
Edit, the rest of the aircraft are now added with updated info. Also, my apologies, quite right Waris; the Hind is indeed very fast for a helicopter. However, it's still much less manoeuvrable than the rest of the aircraft here, even with the shorter winglets and more powerful engines introduced in the upgrade to the PN version.
Edit, changed Apache Longbow image to one with the radome and is a better picture overall.
Edited by CommanderJB, 20 June 2008 - 08:43.
Waris
15 Jun 2008
The Hind is pretty fast, the first time it came out of the production line it was the fastest rotary wing aircraft, until it was beaten by the Super Lynx in that aspect.
Destiny
15 Jun 2008
I vote for the USAF's AH-66D King Commanche 
(I'm pretty sure you guys can guess which heli I voted for.)
(I'm pretty sure you guys can guess which heli I voted for.)
Spoiler
NergiZed
15 Jun 2008
I vote for the Ka-52 based on sexiness along. I don't know why, but I just like the looks of that chopper. (Although the Commanche or the Kawasaki, which is Japan's Main Assault Chopper, looks even better).
Edited by NergiZed, 15 June 2008 - 15:58.
Edited by NergiZed, 15 June 2008 - 15:58.
Cuppa
15 Jun 2008
Does the newest version of the Hind still have that infared achille's heel?
I voted for the Apache AH-64. It has the most flexible cannon AND can carry the same if not better armament as many of the other helicopters on here.
Edited by Cuppa, 15 June 2008 - 16:07.
I voted for the Apache AH-64. It has the most flexible cannon AND can carry the same if not better armament as many of the other helicopters on here.
Edited by Cuppa, 15 June 2008 - 16:07.
Waris
15 Jun 2008
^Looks like yes, the exhaust looks poorly covered, reduction in heat signature is likely nil.
The Wandering Jew
16 Jun 2008
Hmm. It is evident that nobody voted for Euro-based 'choppers. (as of June 16) :chillpill1:
CommanderJB
16 Jun 2008
To be fair, the poll has only been going for less than two days at this point. I expect we'll get more votes, and also a wider spread of votes, but I would have to say that Western Europe has yet to produce a true heavy attack helicopter - both these ones, plus the other voteless bird, the AH-1Z, are lighter, have a lower weapon diversity, and are really more along the lines of medium attack choppers more suited for support of ground forces than true hunting in their own right.
The Wandering Jew
16 Jun 2008
CommanderJB, on 16 Jun 2008, 14:49, said:
To be fair, the poll has only been going for less than two days at this point. I expect we'll get more votes, and also a wider spread of votes, but I would have to say that Western Europe has yet to produce a true heavy attack helicopter - both these ones, plus the other voteless bird, the AH-1Z, are lighter, have a lower weapon diversity, and are really more along the lines of medium attack choppers more suited for support of ground forces than true hunting in their own right.
Perhaps their combat doctrine is different from the American's and Russian's, thus the lighter 'copter.
CommanderJB
17 Jun 2008
Indeed. I'd also imagine lower budgets might have something to do with it. I may be wrong. Also, force integration is much more important in a smaller army that doesn't have a single dedicated branch or weapon for each individual job.
Code Monkey
17 Jun 2008
I have to place my bid on the Apache, it's an all around good attack helicopter, just dont get it in the sand for too long. Though I also favor the hind, only problem is it's uncanny ability to lop off its tail rotor in a sharp turn...
The Wandering Jew
19 Jun 2008
Apaches rutting because of the sand?
Hinds twisting out of their tails?
No wonder the Europeans made their 'copters light as heck. :wahhhhhaa:
Hinds twisting out of their tails?
No wonder the Europeans made their 'copters light as heck. :wahhhhhaa:
Code Monkey
19 Jun 2008
The Wandering Jew, on 18 Jun 2008, 23:38, said:
Apaches rutting because of the sand?
Hinds twisting out of their tails?
No wonder the Europeans made their 'copters light as heck. :wahhhhhaa:
Hinds twisting out of their tails?
No wonder the Europeans made their 'copters light as heck. :wahhhhhaa:
Heh heh heh, nice conclusion =P
Eddy01741
20 Jun 2008
I'd probably say that the Apache is the best overall, it's been proven time and again in combat, and it's got good communication links and all (hence that little thing atop the rotors of some Longbows), but the KA-52 looks badass, and i think it has a lot of potential. So, I voted for the Ka-52 anyways lol.
CommanderJB
20 Jun 2008
I just thought I'd update with a little extra info on the Ka-50/52 in particular (admittedly the stuff I'm presenting is becoming rather skewed towards my favourites, but these are just damn cool aircraft). Here's an awesome video of Ka-50s flying and engaging targets on a test range.
http://www.aviation....video/Ka-50.wmv
I didn't realise that (a) their cannon can engage targets out to an amazing distance of 4 kilometres and has surprising manoeuvrability despite its semi-rigid mounting (+10 to -45 degrees up/down, +10 to -10 degrees side-to-side) and (b) the 9K121 missiles are the only supersonic ATGMs mounted on any helicopter in the world - they travel at 600mm/s, or mach 1.8, use laser guidance and evidently actually hit a target effectively as soon as it detects the laser lock of the incoming missile, (and most tanks don't have laser lock warning systems at all) providing no opportunity to deploy countermeasures such as smoke grenades etc. They're even useful against jets or targets travelling at up to 800km/h - though I don't actually expect anyone could kill a jet with an ATGM, no matter how good, in real life without years of live-fire training, which doesn't happen too often in Russia. Anyhow, they're astonishingly lethal things, and there's the possibility that an upgrade to Vikhr-M standard could increase range to 12/15km, which would be truly extraordinary.
Here's an admittedly patriotic and blatantly persuasive article about the Ka-50, but it has some very interesting info nonetheless:
http://www.armscontrol.ru/atmtc/Arms_syste...a/Ka50/ka50.htm
Edited by CommanderJB, 21 June 2008 - 08:28.
http://www.aviation....video/Ka-50.wmv
I didn't realise that (a) their cannon can engage targets out to an amazing distance of 4 kilometres and has surprising manoeuvrability despite its semi-rigid mounting (+10 to -45 degrees up/down, +10 to -10 degrees side-to-side) and (b) the 9K121 missiles are the only supersonic ATGMs mounted on any helicopter in the world - they travel at 600mm/s, or mach 1.8, use laser guidance and evidently actually hit a target effectively as soon as it detects the laser lock of the incoming missile, (and most tanks don't have laser lock warning systems at all) providing no opportunity to deploy countermeasures such as smoke grenades etc. They're even useful against jets or targets travelling at up to 800km/h - though I don't actually expect anyone could kill a jet with an ATGM, no matter how good, in real life without years of live-fire training, which doesn't happen too often in Russia. Anyhow, they're astonishingly lethal things, and there's the possibility that an upgrade to Vikhr-M standard could increase range to 12/15km, which would be truly extraordinary.
Here's an admittedly patriotic and blatantly persuasive article about the Ka-50, but it has some very interesting info nonetheless:
http://www.armscontrol.ru/atmtc/Arms_syste...a/Ka50/ka50.htm
Edited by CommanderJB, 21 June 2008 - 08:28.
Lucid
24 Jun 2008
i voted for the hind purely for the fact that after it blows your butt into the next country, it can deploy troops to take over your base (or to kill all of your buddies)
CommanderJB
24 Jun 2008
It does have a rather greater beastliness factor than anything else around, doesn't it? An astonishing machine with no real equivalents thanks to the troop capacity, but I put it in this poll anyway because it's just so iconic and is used for the attack helicopter role, it can just do more. I just voted for the Ka-52 because I reckon it looks cooler...
Edit: Oh, all right, and because I put some value on manoeuvrability. Something of a problem when it comes to the Hind.
Edited by CommanderJB, 24 June 2008 - 11:46.
Edit: Oh, all right, and because I put some value on manoeuvrability. Something of a problem when it comes to the Hind.
Edited by CommanderJB, 24 June 2008 - 11:46.
Dutchygamer
24 Jun 2008
Apache for me... Even though the other heli's are also good, the Apache is the most armoured, and most battle-tested one. And it just kicks ass
Eddy01741
24 Jun 2008
For the Hind lovers, there have been some blackhawks that had a total of 16 hell fires mounted on the "wings", so that's just about as badass, and don't forget about the miniguns on each side of the copter.
EDIT: After a quick google:
It's called the Ah-60 and it's codename is the Battlehawk, also, theres a chin mounted chaingun to add to the pwnage. So now it can destroy tanks, transport troops, and medivac all in one.
That said, it'd still be raped by the others in a dedicated attack heli role.
Edited by Eddy01741, 24 June 2008 - 22:03.
EDIT: After a quick google:
It's called the Ah-60 and it's codename is the Battlehawk, also, theres a chin mounted chaingun to add to the pwnage. So now it can destroy tanks, transport troops, and medivac all in one.
That said, it'd still be raped by the others in a dedicated attack heli role.
Edited by Eddy01741, 24 June 2008 - 22:03.
Eddy01741
24 Jun 2008
Actually, the hind has a top speed of 208 mph and a maximum load of a little less than 8000 lbs, the blackhawk has a top speed of 223mph and a maximum load of about 12,000lbs.
Libains
24 Jun 2008
Ka-52 for me please - silent, deadly, and a nice design make it the complete package.
CommanderJB
24 Jun 2008
@ the AH-60: Firstly, isn't this correctly known as the MH-60L Direct Armed Penetrator? The only AH-60 'Battle Hawk' variants I've found are export versions for Australia and Columbia. Anyway, compared to the Hind, the first thing to notice is that weapons diversity is very limited. The Hind trumps it in terms of fixed weaponry with two fixed 23mm cannons which can engage armour, buildings and massed infantry plus the turreted 4-barrel chaingun for dedicated, mobile anti-infantry work, and can mount a much larger array of ordnance on the wings, including bombs, countermeasures pods, two different types of ATGMs and AAMs, three or more models of unguided rockets of varying size and is still capable of approximately the same speed (the speeds you quoted are the absolute maximum damage-to-the-engine-over-extended-amounts-of-time 'never exceed speeds' for the base UH-60J version, and with all the extra gear I would suggest the AH-60 is going to be considerably slower) and is also way better armoured. There's no doubting that the AH-60 is a very capable heli for special forces support, but as you say it can't compete with a dedicated attack helicopter design when it comes to performance, so despite the troop capacity I still wouldn't rank it next to the Hind.
Edit, ninja'd. Now refers to the correct post, and takes speeds into account.
Edited by CommanderJB, 24 June 2008 - 22:27.
Edit, ninja'd. Now refers to the correct post, and takes speeds into account.
Edited by CommanderJB, 24 June 2008 - 22:27.
