Fallout Studios Forums

Recently, Alexei_Stukov showed the mod's fans all of Russia's air units.
The quality of the models is very high, as became expected of Alexei_Stukov.
However I found that the only thing that sets apart the Su-37 and Su-30 is their camouflage. This is, of course, expected since Su-37 and Su-30 are both derived from Su-27. Still, it is my opinion that it would be more interesting to have two distinct aircraft (especially if they fulfill two different roles in the game) rather than two similar ones.

But that is only my opinion, and I do not know whether the other fans feel the same way or not. Thus, I create this thread.
If you think that the aircraft are fine the way they are, let us know.
If you think one of the Sukhois should be replaced by a different aircraft, let us know (and suggest a possible replacement).

I personally think that the Su-30 should be replaced. That does not mean that it should be scraped, I just think it should not be an 'independent aircraft'. It could instead be an aircraft that escorts general-powers bombers. Or the player could start of with Su-30 aircraft and than "upgrade" them to Su-37's (similar to the way the player will be able to upgrade Mi-24 to Mi-35)

So what aircraft could replace the Su-30 as an 'independent aircraft'? That is more difficult to answer since I do not know what role the Su-30 is intended to fulfill in-game. Thus, I give the following 3 suggestions based primarily on the aircraft's unique appearance rather than on their role:

1) Sukhoi T-12 (ground attack aircraft)

In the 1990's, the USSR (and later Russia) planed to introduce into its arsenal a complete new line of aircraft including a new heavy and new light fighter, a new bomber (which, incidentally, served as inspiration for Alexei_Stukov's hypersonic bomber) and a new ground-attack aircraft. Sukhoi's entry for the ground-attack project (called Ш-90 (Sh-90 for those of you that do not know the Cyrillic alphabet)) was T-12. Amongst this aircraft's distinctive features are its forward-swept wings and 2 separate side-by-side cockpits (one for the pilot and one for the weapons operator). Eventually this and other projects were canceled in favor of the multirole PAK FA, but rumors say that there is renewed interest in this project.


A diagram and an artistic concept of the T-12 (click to enlarge)

2) PAK FA (multirole fighter)

I am sure that everyone reading this thread has heard of PAK FA, Russia's 5th generation fighter project. Many speculate about what will it look like: some concept artists portray it as a copy of the Raptor, others portray it as a Berkut without forward-swept wings, and still others portray it as unlike either aircraft. The two of the concept's I like the most (based purely on their 'uniqueness') are:


A twin-engine design supposedly put forward by MiG bureau (click to enlarge).


A single-engine design. I am not sure which company proposed this design, but the design bears resemblance to Vityaz-2000 (see concept picture here). Whether Vityaz-2000 is Mukhamedov's PAK FA entry, a separate project, or a rumor is unknown to me.

3) MFI (multifunctional interceptor)

Even though the 5th generation of aircraft have not yet come of age, research is already commencing on the 6th ! One such project is the Многофункциональный Перехватчик (MФП) (Multifunctional Interceptor (MFI) in Russian). If completed, the project will result in a new generation of interceptor with both air-to-air and air-to-ground capability. One of the new technologies this aircraft might feature is variable-geometry scissor wings. The purpose of such wings would be to improve both subsonic and supersonic flight. Currently, engines are being developed for this new aircraft.


An artistic concept of MFI with navy markings (click to enlarge). Here, the MFI is given designation of Cy-41 (Su-41 for those of you that do not know the Cyrillic alphabet)


Another artistic concept of MFI (click to enlarge).


MFI diagram (click to enlarge).
Edited by Someone, 04 January 2009 - 21:10.

The Su-30 and Su-37 have very different roles in the game. In my opinion they stay for now.
I must say that in few days my beta testers will have jobs. So after few weeks you'll know more.

It's a bit late frankly. They're modelled, skinned, coded and in-game, and look fantastic at that. Not only that but the Su-37 is a single seater when compared to the Su-30's dual-seat design. Russia actually uses neither aircraft - the 37 was a tech demonstrator and the 30 was only produced for export - but they are both very Russian designs and far too cool to miss. Also, the replacements are mostly a bit sci-fi IMHO, and the PAK FA is already used in RotR. Plus any designs are simply guesswork, nothing more, as it will fly for the first time next year. I hope. No-one really knows anything about it whatsoever, save that MiG's design lost the evaluation.

Quote

I agree that they are “modelled, skinned … and look fantastic” (not sure if they are already coded). I am not saying that the Su-30 or Su-37 have to be completely removed from the game – I am suggesting that one of them should not be an 'independent aircraft' (if you are not sure about what I mean when I say 'independent aircraft', please read paragraph 3 of post #1).

Quote

Is that bad? A number of futuristic, ‘sci-fi’ aircraft are featured in both the original game (e.g.: Aurora, King Raptor, Battle Drone to name a few.) and in the mod (e.g.: Russia’s hypersonic bomber). Why would the aircraft I suggested not ‘fit in’?

Also, if you feel that there is an airplane (or airplanes) that would make more appropriate replacement, please suggest it. That is why I created this thread – so everyone can express their ideas on the topic.

Quote

RotR chose to portray PAK FA as a ‘Raptor-copy’. If Alexei_Stukov chooses to feature PAK FA in his mod, he could make it based on any of the other possible configurations (the two I posted are just my favorite configurations). He could even make his PAK FA a ‘Raptor-copy’ as well. After all, should Alexei scrap his Berkut, Mi-24, MT-LB or MSTA-S just because RotR features them as well?

Quote

If you are implying that a unit should not be put into a game just because little is know about it, consider that the Aurora is featured in the original game – and it is only a rumor!
If little information is known about something, all it means is that the artist has a lot of creative freedom.

Quote

True, but MiG has been hired as one of the sub-contractors for the PAK FA project, so it is likely that some of the design feature they suggested will be featured in the final product.

They are all coded and works fine.
Plus I don't want to push all toys for the first release.
That's why some planned units are moved for future release ( for example : Black Eagle, Ka-58Black ghost and so on).

So let me explain how the bought fighters works.
SU-30 equipment : 2 AGM, 2 AAM, 2 Kab1500 bombs. He is specialized for ground attack. Early game fighter.
SU-37 equipment : 4 AGM and 4 AAM, advanced engine system making it very manoeuvre. A little bit health stronger. Late game Fighter available only for
Long Range Weapon System.

Probably there are too many aircraft for the russian faction, well if you compare it with the "air force" faction (US), the su-37 could be an upgrate of the su-30 thought, with better ECM missile resistence , better ECM equipment and better turn rate.

IMO, the russian air force should be very specializated (instead the US airforce that is more for multi-use), so there should be only 2 units, a unit only for ground attack, cheap, strong and easy to spam with cheap and no precise weapons, like bombs or rockets -su-25- and an air-defgence unit, with a lot of agility, very long range missiles , lacking of stealth but could work very good with stealth spoters , with only one long range ground attack missile (but with slow recharge), this one could be the su-30/37

BTW, the T-12 was the projected su-25 replacement, so a model of the T-12 could be a good idea, i think i can make one, if you need it , i agree the other models of Someone looks too fantastic

BTW, great looking mod
Edited by zerocold, 24 November 2008 - 17:56.

I was thinking about making SU-37 upgrade for SU-30 also T-95 upgrade for t-90 and so on, because I know that in one game you don't use more than 4-6 units. And that plenty of Aircrafts and tanks is in some way unneeded. But in other way that's good cause you can choose which unit to use and which not.
For me is easy to do make upgrade for su-30 to su-37.
For me T-12 is not good Idea at this time.
As I sad this version is Very Beta if you know what I mean so other factions doesn't have new units, bugs are expected, missing things and .....
I hope you will understand that.
Keep making suggestions and reporting bug in the forum I made. That's the way to make this mod better.