8 replies to this topic

[Overdose]

The industry is in a sad state currently and it will only get worse. Japan officially declared they are in recession. Animation and video game studios will be affected by this. So many anime series were troubled with budget problems and guess what? It's going to get worse. Now let's be honest here. Anime and manga are merchandise, it's meant to give profit. Sure everyone that starts out in the industry may have pure intentions such as love or because they consider it as a art, but when things get tight they'll be looking for paychecks as well. That's just how our world works and how human beings must function in it.

You might be thinking 'that's ok! They can still make more money overseas'. Allow me to enlighten you that they will, however the GOOD anime will not. You see, things are alien like here in the West. The general population does not see Anime or animation in fact as a form of entertainment for a mature audience. For them Animation is supposed to be a silly thing for the kids or a Pixar movie. What do you think that sells well here in the West? The answer is simple: GARBAGE.

Anime series like Pokemon, Dragon Ball made millions in the west. So now what we do have? We have Japanese studios focusing entirely on western audiences. Do you really think Naruto is as popular in Japan than in the west? NO! Naruto is an anime that was entirely created with westerners in mind. Do you think that's how Japanese people think ninjas are meant to look and act like that? NO! It's a trap for people in their early teens and meant to steal the fanbase of the now dead but unexplainably popular Dragon Ball series. You may think 'so what?'. Allow me to explain this does more harm to the industry than good.

Because people will always want more. There will always a be a market of millions of dollars waiting for the next thing that can top Naruto and Pokemon. This does not help the industry's image. Because of those poor excuses of an anime, people identify all of anime with these franchises. Now if you are reading this you are likely an anime fan like me, you've probably seen countless anime and manga series too. You probably have your favorites too. Now tell me, how much demand that franchise had in the West? Did that even get published in the west? The answers are respectively: Not what it deserves and possibly not even made out of Japan.

In the other hand Anime is always becoming more and more popular, finding a niche in the alternative entertainment market. There's a problem with that. There's a lot of studios handling these franchises overseas for the creators. These people are over localizing the content, sometimes entirely raping the product from beyond what can be considered editing. They just trample the original work all over, stamp it with new ink and sell a product that THEY think is good.

There's a war being waged against fansubs now. Fansubs have been a vital part of our lives because not all animes come West side. The big companies say fansubs are no longer required because animes are already a commodity in the Western entertainment industry. That's fine and dandy but guess what? Fansubs are the only thing we can TRUST. Fansubs at least try to keep the dialog of the series we love so much the way they it is meant to be.

The futility of it all is depressing. There's many outcomes to this but none of them lead anywhere nice. My final note comes in the form of the Mozilla Firefox spellchecker. It considers Pokemon an actual word while Anime is not.

[Soul]

Oh no, what do we do Overdose?

[Overdose]

We get on all fours and kiss our asses goodbye

[Nid]

Agreed entirely, Overdose.
I'm probably not the biggest Anime fan around these parts, heck, as a 14 year old I only really enjoyed Mobile Suit: Gundam Wing, Zoids, Tenchi Muyo, Dragonball & Dragonball Z, and I would still enjoy them today (meaning I'm probably one of the guys you are opposing ). But the way other Animes suffer as a result of the more mainstream ones realy disgusts me, especially as a recession is looming over the industry.

Edited by Nidmeister, 19 November 2008 - 17:11.

[Comr4de]

You know I wasn't aware of such events, but upon reading this it really makes sense and it is only logical for this industry to target certain audiences to fill their wallets. It just makes sense.

It is really saddens me that this entertainment industry is going through such a phase, I am optimistic however that eventually, just as video games have gone through, will be accepted as a streamline entertainment genre for all audiences.

While some franchises may get more attention then others, I do strongly believe that others deserve the same love and attention - but it must be accepted by a general audience first and we can only wait until that time arrives.

[Zero]

Simply put, they are smarter than us. They can enjoy GOOD animation while the CRAP that gets sent over here is taken up by kids and ALL anime is written off as kid's stuff. The other day I was watching an episode of Code Geass in school and one other student said:

"You're watching cartoons!?! You need to grow the fuck up!"

I, an avid anime fan, simply turned to my classmate and said: "Shut up you ignorant dumbass! If I showed you this show from episode, it would give you such a damn headache, you would come down with tumor. If you are going to call a show immature, then do yourself a favor, and make sure that you are actually capable of explaining the theme and meaning behind the story as well as the plot with that pea brain of yours, before you make fun of anime." Yes, he IS stupid, he has like 1.2, and he's ignorant idiot who refuses to learn or even bother trying to.

The problem is here in the West, cartoons are all for kids (except the even shittier adult ones); the only good one is The Simpsons (maybe Family Guy). Then the animes that get sent over here are, 95% Shonen, or stuff for little boys up to 13 years old. Actually, even the deep and good Shonen such as Gundam SEED (which is REALLY deep when you pay attention to it) are cancelled because they aren't watched and replaced by what? Naruto!?! What the hell!!?!! On top of that, ALL dubs sucked (except for the FMA, which was PERFECT pretty much;maybe Death Note too), as Westerners pay absolutely no attention to the voice acting, unlike the Japanese who are pretty cut-throat about it. Some animes I would like to see either subbed or with a good dub in the US are:

-Code Geass R1+R2 (Lulu wasn't arrogant or cool enough, as were most chac.)
-Ergo Proxy (Awesome in Jap!! Thanks to EVE for this one)
-Cowboy Beebop (needs better voices
-Claymore
-Gundam SEED
-.hack//sign Fragments (Tsukasa one)
-Black Cat
-Blassreiter
-Like fifty other ones I can't remember

[Alias]

Claymore already has (some) episodes dubbed...

[Shirou]

I agree on most things, but I am not as much of an apocalypse harbringer as you are, Overdose

Pokemon, Dragonball Z, Naruto, Digimon, name them. All of those were immensely popular in the western world. The difference between them and the good animes like Claymore or Last Exile is ofcourse their style and quality. Their extremely cheesy, simple minded dialogue and plotlines. But this is explainable, as the main reason why they are like this is that they are purely meant for kids. Unlike the good animes you describe, these are really focussed on the total 'shounen' part of it and they leave behind every other element in the process. Kids want action, kids want nothing but that, and they don't care about difficult plotlines.

Sure, Gundam Wing had a serious plotline. However how many of you actually got all of that when you were nine and watching it on the occasional zap? The series was action filled and that's what made it popular. Nobody cared about the storyline at all. All I am saying is that because of the target of the western animes they are being made so crappy. The image of anime is really being tainted by them, and there are few adults that would want to try and watch a 'simple child animation'.

What needs to happen is that Anime needs to be sold in the west as a product for mature audiences. However that means restrictions. Claymore has so much gore that no kid would be allowed to watch it. This means only adults would be the target of the series. And with the image of anime as a childish animation certainly won't help in having any TV station dare to take the chance. It is very likely to fail. However someone will have to try..

[SorataZ]

I really REALLY do not want to be a Necroposter, so please delete this post if it disturbes the eternal slumber of this tread.
I just read the things Overdose said, and being a big Anime fan myself, I really understand his position. Anime are still marked as 'made for children', no matter what their content is. In fact, before the real Anime came to Europe, especially Germany, there was only one kind of Anime available - hentai. This is a problem as well, because this lead to the situation that Anime also are marked as 'perverted and unnormal'. They are not! Example are my parents and the parents of my cousin: it took me years to explain them the difference between Anime and cartoons, and finally my mother understood it, even if she asked me once why 'GITS Movie 1' was for people 16+. She did not see there are people dieing because they are shot-at, or others who use high technology which no child would understand, aso. An other time I watched Hellsing the old series, and it started as usual. My father was in the room doing stuff at the computer, and while I quite happily watched how Seras was in this nightmare where the guy blood-sucks the girl, he turned around and did not understand what was going on. He did never see nor even know what real Anime is and why it is supposed to be 16+.
Last sentence I give to Naruto: while Naruto in the western world is a 12+, and censored to the f*** in Germany, it is a 16+ in Japan and it is VERY popular there. The USA though about to NOT release it in America because it features people like 12/13 years old who are e.g. fighting, poisened, bleeding the hell out of their bodys and/or die.