10 replies to this topic

[NergiZed]

The topic says it all. I know this is mainly an American issue, but I was wondering what your opinions are on this matter, especially relating to what and/or how these are taught in schools.

[Rayburn]

Creationism is backward and dangerous because people who zealously believe in such a story without ANY tolerance for those who don't would probably support crusades and witch-burnings as well. The fact that such religious zealotry is still present in a western nation does not cast a good light on that very nation, especially when other countries/groups with a similar fanaticism are considered enemies of freedom just because their 'prophet' has a different name. This is the 21st century for crying out loud! Do we still need that bollocks about 'believers' and 'infidels' and 'believe in (my) god or I'll bash your head in'!? Oh well, that's only tangentially related, I stated my point.

Edited by Rayburn, 19 February 2009 - 07:13.

[BeefJeRKy]

I don't think Creationism should necessarily be banned as an idea though it should only be mentioned in passing in a biology class whereas evolution deserves to be explained as a fully competent (if incomplete) theory in such a scientific class. The idea of Genesis belongs in either a history class concerned with religion or in a Christian Studies class (obviously something optional).

[Ion Cannon!]

Creationism is complete bull and no self respecting education institute should teach it, its place is in zealous cults for idiots, they also think the world is only 5000 years old if i'm correct, wonder how they explain rocks which are hundreds of millions of years old

Edited by Insomniac!, 19 February 2009 - 09:18.

[Chyros]

IMO, anyone should be able to believe what they wish (even if I and/or the rest of the world might not respect you fully for it) but having creationism (or any religion for that matter) actually taught in schools, I really dislike. I'd even rather they brought up children with scientology than with most other religions, which doesn't have, as far as I'm concerned, any basis in reality either, but without the 'kill the heretics', 'everyone is a sinner' and 'never have a moment of fun in your life' dogmas. But speaking with more nuance, I don't like it that anyone would be brought up with any religion, because many people tend to cling to these beliefs without questioning them. I'm of the opinion that anyone should be able to decide if they believe, and if so, what, but only once they've matured. Raising children with ideas for which there isn't any scientific basis is wrong IMO, worse so if they promote hatred, torture, maiming and murder (though of course this doesn't apply to all religions).

All in all, if someone would adopt a religion when they've matured, fine, if they take solace in that, let them. But the raising of a child with this something-that-can't-be-called-anything-but-propaganda is a bad idea, methinks.

EDIT: @ Ion: pipe down there a bit on the 'idiots', please.

Edited by Chyros, 19 February 2009 - 09:30.

[partyzanpaulzy]

I don't like this creationism hypothesis (it's not theory, they have no real proof). I think true is something near to catastrophical evolution (when some old species died, there is new place), nucleonic acids probably came from outer space (calculations of DNA mutations points that DNA should be older than Earth), maybe just from the Mars, maybe they came to Mars in an asteroid, later catapulted rocks (by the asteroid) from Mars fell on Earth to seed her with life (pretty resistant archebacterias, you can find them anywhere on Earth, even in a nuclear reactor or 3kms under ground).
It's also possible thousand decades (or few millions years) B.C. some allien landed on Earth who are ressponsible for our existence (our ancestors were workers/slaves, they were "gods") or 2001: The Space Oddyssey , but it's same possible there were no alliens affecting Earth life evolution.
Scientific thinking about Space creation tends to 2 scenarios - there was primeval "matter" where was some fluctuation which ended in the Big Bang:
#1 it was just random fluctuation, an accident
#2 somebody caused this
But this is rather Dauth's area, not mine.

Possibility #1 can be frustrating for many people, so this is one thing (from many) which helps teistic religions to be alive (with #2).
There are many people around the world who believes Alliens were involved in many biological changes in the history of Earth life (some of them even think they created Moon), those Dänniken-like people have maybe weird opinion, but they aren't dangerous from this point.
Worse are those who connects these hypothesises with religion, like Raellians or Creationists. I don't know what can I expect from Raellians, but similar (in religion) denominations are responsible for kidnapping, mass suicides of their members (like when whole family commited suicide with exhaust gas), exploitation of their members by many ways (many denominations generally do this, Hare Krishna is one of those rather harmless). Creationists are recruited from fundamental Christianists. This can be dangerous. If someone says God created everything, it's a God's will, they need to be punished in the name of God -> new Crusade, worse than attacking terrorist countries.
Creationism is one mark of fundamental Christianist (so every spread of the Creationism is pretty scary) and we all know what islamic fundamentalists are doing, this can be similar... Believe what you want (you can be even Satanist without: human sacrifices or human torture or animal torture), but don't start the inquisition or the Holy War...

[Rich19]

Insomniac!, on 19 Feb 2009, 9:18, said:

Creationism is complete bull and no self respecting education institute should teach it, its place is in zealous cults for idiots, they also think the world is only 5000 years old if i'm correct, wonder how they explain rocks which are hundreds of millions of years old

My thoughts exactly. Creationism has as much of a place in a biology class as the study of the life cycle of pixies.

[NergiZed]

I pretty much agree with most that's been said here.

Now, I'm prolly biased against creationism due to the fact that I've spent the first half of my life living in China, where crap like creationism would've been laughable.

I also find it worrying that staatiscally, (I forget where I heard this exactly, but it was from a reliable news gathering agency) that nearly half of Americans don't 'believe' in evolution.

[Shirou]

No real debate here.

Why is it in the PA, isn't this philosophical? In which IIRC, there is already a topic about this subject? (or a topic derailed into it).

I guess 97.6 percent of the PA userbase is against creatonism. What's the use of debating it here then.

[NergiZed]

A topic like this surely doesn't belong in 'General Discusiion'. I mean, there has to be a few Christians on the forums that might be offended by this or something.

[Shirou]

Which is why I suggested Philosophers Corner.

But I see it is also about teaching Creatonism on schools. So I guess that makes it political.

And what, offended by a discussion? That's exactly what people are being against here. A good christian would open up for discussion instead of act zealous and go feel 'offended'. You people are expected to be the least to care about such an 'Offended' christian because you despise it in this topic that much.

Edited by Aftershock, 20 February 2009 - 22:30.