407 replies to this topic

[ultimentra]

I am pretty sure Communism tried to get rid of religion in the USSR and China, but ultimately failed. We still saw orthodox russian christians and jews in the USSR, and we still saw Taoism and Buddhism in China. You really can't just do away with it. I personally liked the sort of thing that TV series Firefly introduced. Pretty much everyone (even shepherd) had their own beliefs, but didn't force them upon each other (according to what I saw in the show anyway). Buddism and Christiany were the dominating religions, and in the show you saw alot of each of them. Not really sure what happened to all of the other religions in the TV series because you didn't see them, but I bet they would be there somewhere.

[SquigPie]

Frankly, that world will never exist, because there always will be people like Richard Dawkins and 80% of the world population to ruin it.

But let us hope, hope is a beautiful thing, don't ever kill it, let us hope...


PS: Wiether or not Taoism and Buddhism are religions can be discussed, they are more philosophies bordering on religion, Atheism is a philosophy too you know

Edited by SquigPie, 13 May 2009 - 08:01.

[TehKiller]

Chyros, on 8 May 2009, 17:10, said:

TehKiller, on 8 May 2009, 15:46, said:

Chyros, on 8 May 2009, 5:47, said:

ultimentra, on 8 May 2009, 1:08, said:

I seriously can't see why everyone thinks they are right and everyone else is wrong.

Doesn't any form of belief entail exactly that, by definition?

Not really...at least Christianity doesn't..."we" think we are right and that we dont accept anything else as being right nor wrong either

I'd gladly introduce you to a couple dozen villages in the Netherlands where you are just a tiny bit less of an outcast if one is an atheist than the utter trash onw would be made out to be if one were but a slightly different type of Reformed Christianity for example, and they wouldn't even be able to point out the differences between their two groups . Let alone how Protestants and Catholics get on with each other.

Thats why I claim that the West is a heaven for weirdo's. Face it you dont see that kind of BS in most of the former communist states in Europe (especially not in FYR even if people that lived in the US and EU try to influence that).

My point is that a same religion but on the 2 different corners of the world can be very different

[nip]

SquigPie, on 7 May 2009, 22:30, said:

[...] Our tyranny, replaced by yours.
The Pigs will walk the day religion die.

/sarcasm, /irony

The pigs are walking, SquigPie. And you should be afraid your god will end in self-destruction and will disappear like every other god before.

Religion, a privileged source of moral unreachable for atheists.

If your god would be a tiny weeny bit sophisticated I would love to see my kids adore your god. Unfortunately your god is a barbarian and kids shouldn't listen to the stories of the old-fashioned ethnic cleansings, slayings of dissidents and other bull written in your holy book. Originally the moral rules of both old and new testament were factional rules in a strict sense, used to shut off others. Introversive love and outwardly hate, Jesus was a worshipper of those double standards. Loyal towards his own people and a passionate xenophobe at the same time. Where is the moral? You tell me parts of the bible must be translated as symbols, not virtually? Who decides what has to be seen in the figurative sense and what not? Call it fiction, kids grow and with them grows the virus of religious hate and intolerance that was planted inside their heads. And when they grown up many of them do take the bible literally and do believe the old-fashioned way. What if not the old and new testament someone had in mind when bombing an abortion clinic or killing an abortion doctor? What makes you think that Christianity contains any moral, a religion that has chosen its own instrument of torture - the cross, as a holy symbol? Christians condemned the Jews and screamed murderer, remember? A simple word that lead to many pogroms over the millennia. "Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." words of a(n) (in)famous author. Where is the moral? Religion is a riving force, if you can't find a reason to threaten others simply use religion. You can tag any shit with it.

"God with us!" pigs scream, and I'm yearning for the day religion dies.

[SquigPie]

Are you an idiot or something?

Look up Animal Farm, it would enlighten you.

A tyranny can never be replaced by a "non-tyranny" It will simply be replaced by another tyranny. usually an even worse one.

And by the way, we had a nice un-bigoted discussion before you came in, please leave.

"LAWL! GOD IZ TEH SUXXORZ!" the pigs scream.
"GOD IZ 1337!" the pigs scream

Stop screaming you idiot and start accepting the truth, you're no better!

Edited by SquigPie, 13 May 2009 - 15:09.

[Rayburn]

His statement, although harshly put, added more to the discussion than your last post, mate. In fact, I agree with him. Most religions are full of double standards and even though they have bugger all valid evidence to confirm even a single one of their arguments and claims, they still insist that they're the one and only moral authority that keeps those petty humanoids from slaughtering each other. Ironically enough, there has probably been more slaughtering and killing in the name of this oh-so-benevolent god or any one of his equivalents than for any secular tyrant. How many despots have justified their atrocities without EVER saying 'god wants it'? It's also kind of a sad reflection of our species that some of us can only be kept in check if you tell them that there's some all-mighty, all-knowing god out there who's gonna judge them for their deeds and misdeeds.

[Dauth]

SquigPie, on 13 May 2009, 16:07, said:

Are you an idiot or something?

Look up Animal Farm, it would enlighten you.

A tyranny can never be replaced by a "non-tyranny" It will simply be replaced by another tyranny. usually an even worse one.

And by the way, we had a nice un-bigoted discussion before you came in, please leave.

"LAWL! GOD IZ TEH SUXXORZ!" the pigs scream.
"GOD IZ 1337!" the pigs scream

Stop screaming you idiot and start accepting the truth, you're no better!

SquigPie it is not your job to moderate the discussions, it is mine. I suggest you take your time to familiarise yourself with the rules on Fallout Studios again. Another outburst like that and you will be warned.

I do love the irony of your actions, you will have a polite conversation with one person while maintaining strong views, but as soon as someone else turns up with strong views in another direction you become rude and abrasive.

@Topic, my opinions on religion are well documented, but I will sum it up for people who are lazy.

Organised religion is the biggest problem facing humanity.
Individual people practising their faith without forcing it on me are welcome to do so.
I will react very badly should someone try to remove my freedom to be a non-believer. I do not use the term Atheist, I will not meet Theists on their ground, they can meet me on mine.
You will do more by working at a problem, than praying for someone else to solve it.

[SquigPie]

I maintain my belief that We all should agree on something,

You're no better than I am, and I am no better than you am. I am an idiot and so are you, none of us are right and all of us are right.

When a person ignores parts of your post and picks others as right thats okay, but when a person defends his own points it is wrong

Also, it is funny that when i say that i believe him to be stupid i get a FREAKING warning, but when he rants about how my views suck you agree with him!

Also, look up Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and Poll Pott, they didn't murder 50% of their own population in the name of God, neither did the crusades, they didn't do it in the name of God, he was an excuse to rape and pillage, then they remembered to leave a Bible behind in the ruins so that they had a better reason to commit grand scale genocide than "For teh Lulz".

So if I get banned for outbursting (which I sadly agree that I did) but he doesn't. Then it doesn't matter, I don't really give a damn

Doesn't that make you doublemoralistic too?

I'm tired of this.

Why can't we all just agree that all of our opinions suck?

I am a nihilist, yet I am not, I am a liar, a thief, a hater, an asshole, yet I am not.

Neither are you.

All opinions contradict themselves.

So ban me for being free! Long live the rules of slavery!

PS: I didn't play mod, I just defended my opinion. and begged him to let our discussion continue without hateism or bigotism

Edited by SquigPie, 13 May 2009 - 16:37.

[Rayburn]

@ Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot
Three of these were communists who, by definition, reject religion and Hitler, even though religion wasn't among his
primary motivators, still took advantage of Christian anti-Semitism...and parts of the church actually supported that cause.

@ The crusades
The crux is that they still HAD this excuse and made us of it. It's always easy to justify things with the will of god, but if there is no god you can 'blame', you have to come up with a more creative explanation. Religion leads people into blind obedience and gullibility which of course WILL be exploited at some point.

[Dauth]

SquigPie, on 13 May 2009, 17:30, said:

I maintain my belief that We all should agree on something,

You're no better than I am, and I am no better than you am. I am an idiot and so are you, none of us are right and all of us are right.

When a person ignores parts of your post and picks others as right thats okay, but when a person defends his own points it is wrong

Also, it is funny that when i say that i believe him to be stupid i get a FREAKING warning, but when he rants about how my views suck you agree with him!

Also, look up Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and Poll Pott, they didn't murder 50% of their own population in the name of God, neither did the crusades, they didn't do it in the name of God, he was an excuse to rape and pillage, then they remembered to leave a Bible behind in the ruins so that they had a better reason to commit grand scale genocide than "For teh Lulz".

So if I get banned for outbursting (which I sadly agree that I did) but he doesn't.

Doesn't that make you doublemoralistic too?

I'm tired of this.

Why can't we all just agree that all of our opinions suck?

I am a nihilist, yet I am not, I am a liar, a thief, a hater, an asshole, yet I am not.

Neither are you.

All opinions contradict themselves.

This is the philosopher's corner not some presentation in front of Class 7. You have to accept people will disagree with parts of your post. Live with it.

He put his views together in a clear and concise manner, he did not resort to flaming people. Do not cross me on this because you will lose.

You have named three dictators and ones who were not religious but killed millions. I am sure that several dozen could be found contrary to this.

I have explained to you how the rules work, this is not double standards. I encourage disagreements, I encourage people to think, the problem you've encountered is that on Fallout Studios you do it calmly and politely or you don't do it at all.

A debate on the nature of opinions is another thread, if that interests you, start it.

[SquigPie]

So if A rapist rapes a child and gives the child the fault the child is to be daily bashed and booed at?

Also, 40% of europe supported the Nazi beliefs, and yet you only focus on the church?

Also, Detailed ranting is the same as simple ranting, its still ranting. Look up Richard Dawkins.

And maybee I can't accept the fact that he does not agree with me, but he has the right to hate me?

I don't care if I lose, I never back down, not before the gates of hell! and surely not before you!

Edited by SquigPie, 13 May 2009 - 16:51.

[Dauth]

SquigPie, on 13 May 2009, 17:45, said:

So if A rapist rapes a child and gives the child the fault the child is to be daily bashed and booed at?

Also, 40% of europe supported the Nazi beliefs, and yet you only focus on the church?

What has the first point got to do with the topic at hand?

I know, but the thing about everyone except the Church, they have recanted their beliefs. The Church still refuses to excommunicate Hitler, this is ludicrous, nearly 65 years after his death and the Church still won't say killing 6m Jews and countless millions of other civilians is wrong.

I have read a lot of Dawkings, while I appreciate his thinking there are better approaches than his. If you won't behave in a more suitable manner you will be warned and then warned again and then banned. That is how the rules work here, I thought the religious were meant to venerate rules?

Edited by Dauth, 13 May 2009 - 16:49.

[SquigPie]

THe child is religion. The rapist is all the foul fanatics who rapes religion for pleasure.

Also, I do follow the rules, but not when the rules are wrong.

Edited by SquigPie, 13 May 2009 - 16:53.

[Rayburn]

``Also, 40% of europe supported the Nazi beliefs, and yet you only focus on the church?´´

This whole discussion here revolves around religion, doesn't it? Of course I could as well say that Hitler was supported by militarists, disillusioned commoners, racists, fascists etc. from Germany and various other countries but since we're primarily talking about religion, I was mainly focusing on the church's position. Sure, some of them opposed the dictatorship as well but the fact still stands: The Nazis DID take advantage from widespread anti-Semitism which was _partly_ connected with religion.

[Dauth]

SquigPie, on 13 May 2009, 17:49, said:

THe child is religion. The rapist is all the foul people who rapes religion for pleasure.

I know few people who oppose religion for pleasure, a lot of people oppose it because we love the freedom to think. If no one ever thought beyond the limits of the Bible are you sure we wouldn't still be wandering around trying to take Jerusalem from the Turks?

[SquigPie]

Well, see freedom from my point of view.

Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4, but it is also the freedom to say that 2+2=5, even if it doesn't make sense. Freedom is also the freedom to agree with everybody else. Some people doesn't have the ability to invent their own answer to the question, and thus simply follow one of the two most accepted answers.

I believe that 2+2=4,8 (I stand on the side of the 5's, but i agree with some of the 4's ideas). But I find both 4 and 5 possible answers.

So when somebody starts lolling about how the 5's are stupid, and basically hides the simple line (5 SUXX!!!111one1) underneath a long bunch of words, i get pissed. And then the local sherif (appariantly a 4) comes over and points at a large sign stating "4 and 5 are equal, but 4 are more equal than 5" I ofcourse gets angrier.

Here comes another warning....

Edited by SquigPie, 13 May 2009 - 17:02.

[Dauth]

Your interpretation of events is intriguing, off topic too.

Freedom is the ability to say, "A is right, and B is wrong" and the ability to say "B is right, and A is wrong". You think that both A and B are in some way right. Someone has come along and said, very calmly "The was A is taught and its history are wrong, therefore I think B is right." I have said I think B is right and A is wrong, but what I will not do is raise my voice or flame someone who thinks A is right. Anyone who flames will be up against me outside of the polite nature of these conversations and in the cold hard light of what is within the rules.

If you had responded with equally well worded reasons why you disagreed with Nip then you would not have had any problems from me and this would have been an interesting topic, not me having to explain the rules for the upteenth time.

[TehKiller]

Dauth, on 13 May 2009, 16:15, said:

Organised religion is the biggest problem facing humanity.

Dauth, on 13 May 2009, 17:15, said:

...but what I will not do is raise my voice or flame someone who thinks A is right.

Please clarify this as in my view these statements sounds a bit hypocritical as the first quote openly state that a group of people believing in "A" is wrong.

[SquigPie]

Because I hate writing the same things twice, and I've already stated why I hate his opinions, there are no need for a mass of pointless words to prove something simple.

Also, I'm tired of being placed in a Raven discussion (2 ravens discussing which one is whitest, kinda pointless since they are both pitchblack, like 2 hypocrites who discuss which one is the least hypocritical). Can we just forget the whole stupid thing and forgive each other

Edited by SquigPie, 13 May 2009 - 17:31.

[Dauth]

TehKiller, on 13 May 2009, 18:26, said:

Dauth, on 13 May 2009, 16:15, said:

Organised religion is the biggest problem facing humanity.

Dauth, on 13 May 2009, 17:15, said:

...but what I will not do is raise my voice or flame someone who thinks A is right.

Please clarify this as in my view these statements sounds a bit hypocritical as the first quote openly state that a group of people believing in "A" is wrong.

I'm not burning down the Churches or stealing children from the Mosques. All I am saying is that I think organised religion is a serious problem, because of the way the masses are manipulated by it. I could just as easily say the expansion in the number of non religious people is the biggest problem facing humanity and I'd bet you would not be half as annoyed.

I will instead talk in a calm and efficient manner to get my views across to another person, perhaps one who thinks "A" is right.

Edited by Dauth, 13 May 2009 - 17:33.

[SquigPie]

Why should you say that?

Non-religious people are just as good at choosing right and wrong as religious people are, so thus thats no problem, It only gets bad when they start burning us for saying god exists.

Thus I have no problem that the atheists bring in reinforcements, and I would question you why you thought so, but since I am religious, I ofcourse stand on the religious side, and thus I does'nt get as offended

But I get pissed when an ignorant fundamentalist calls evolution a hoax and say that every non-whateverreligionhefollows will BURN IN HELL!!!! (see Jack Chick for more information)

Edited by SquigPie, 13 May 2009 - 17:43.

[Dauth]

SquigPie, on 13 May 2009, 18:38, said:

Why should you say that?

Non-religious people are just as good at choosing right and wrong as religious people are, so thus thats no problem, It only gets bad when they start burning us for saying god exists.

You'd be amazed for just how long the numbers of non-religious burning religious is smaller than the religious burning everyone who wasn't exactly like them.

I think Tehkiller is religious and I think he's trying to pull me up on something after I named him as a part of a large problem.

[TehKiller]

Sure as hell I wouldnt be half as annoyed because I do not care but what I do care is when someone starts insulting my religion (i think I said this like 10 times already...) and a statement like/similar to that is clearly an insult (and it doesnt matter if you said it calmly or not, an insult is an insult). You aint a believer (as much as you find it annoying but the term atheist stands now), fine your thing but you have no right (especially if you believe a god doesnt exist) to insult my beliefs.


also at topic: I also noticed people like comparing Hitler and the Church. Please correct if i'm wrong but wasn't Hitler the one that prosecuted and executed priests all around Germany? And if he was so religious to kill 6 mil in the name of God why on earth would he had Mussolini annex the Vatican?

[Dauth]

I'm having a go at the organisation not the practitioners. Let me give you an example.

The organisation

http://news.bbc.co.u...ope/7950671.stm

Quote

Several EU states have criticised Pope Benedict for saying that the use of condoms could endanger public health and increase the problem of HIV/Aids

http://aids.about.co...ts/a/africa.htm

Quote

In some African nations, 1 in 3 adults are infected with HIV.

Just how many more infections will the Catholic Church cause before is becomes a genocide and we do lose the population of Africa.

The practitioner
You go to Church, you marry another people, you decide not to use condoms (following scripture you have not had sex before marriage) it is unlikely that in Europe you will cause the spread of HIV/AIDS and even if for some reason one of you is positive (which I sincerely hope is not the case) then we have drugs (that are expensive but available in Europe) to prevent the children contracting the condition.

I will also mention that when I last checked (some time ago I admit) the Vatican had enough money to wipe out third world debt, gotta ask why such a benevolent organisation hasn't done so.

[SquigPie]

Saying that one man represents every single religious person on earth (and space) is silly.

Even if he is the pope.