60 replies to this topic

[Wizard]

Well aren't we all embarking on a little flame war.

We kept this open so people could discuss their feelings on this topic with some hope of sense and civility. Boy were we wrong.

1 last chance to keep this polite people.

[Rayburn]

I sense it's time for me to bail out of this. Strangely funny how something that worked for so many years can come to an end in mere minutes but I guess it's the only way for me. I intentionally stayed out of these discussions until now, tried not to stir any unrest or generate bad blood but at this point, I simply had to express my feelings. Gentlemen, I bid you farewell. May the differences soon be overcome.

[Kris]

Toodles Rayburn, it was nice to have you around. Have fun with communist SWR

Edited by Kris, 16 July 2009 - 12:07.

[Wi-Ta]

To all that really now me i like to say this:

Farewell and have a good time.
Sorry i have enough of this place at this moment and i do not now if i will return.

Best regards and stay well
Wi-Ta

[Alias]

Kris, on 16 Jul 2009, 22:06, said:

Toodles Rayburn, it was nice to have you around. Have fun with communist SWR

You can have fun with your "communist" Fallout Studios, because if you haven't realised the administration systems behind them both are the exact same.

[Dauth]

Rayburn, I did not give this thread a run to drive people away. I let this thread happen to allow people to spill their feelings in one place once and for all so we don't spend the rest of forever hearing how A was annoyed at B for saying C when SWR left. We never chatted on MSN which I think is a big shame. I will say that the members of FS are in the dark as to the exact demands, something it appears you have seen.

I have kept the demands secret out of respect for the SWR team, people who I worked with for 18 months or more, but have wondered at the response should it find a global audience.

I feel sad to see valued and senior members leave the community, it is quite galling that Hunter is the only SWR-admin to have made an appearance since SWR left.

Edit: Some serious ninja.

Chris, that's not helpful, you should know that by now.

Wi-ta, now I do really like you mate, its a right pain to see you leave

Edited by Dauth, 16 July 2009 - 12:15.

[Kris]

Sorry dauth, i just cant resist

@Alias: It's still seriously interesting that you still have the case of EPIC Fanboyism. Oh well, we cant change that fact anyway.

Edited by Kris, 16 July 2009 - 12:18.

[Kichō]

Edit: My bad, I got the wrong end of the stick, thanks for clearing that up, Alias.

As for me I am neither bothered nor affected by SWR leaving, I knew they were going to change forum some time but like I said I ain't affected. Oh and by the way I joined partially because of SWR and the community...

Edited by Zhen, 16 July 2009 - 12:50.

[Alias]

He wasn't referring to China the country, "china" is a slang term for a friend. Rhyming slang from mate --> china plate.

Edited by Alias, 16 July 2009 - 12:48.

[ΓΛPTΘΓ]

Yes, I joined for the SWR mods, but I get active because of the friendly community. Now get along and have fun instead of hating each other, SWR and FS made their decisions, it may not be the best but I am sure ruining the whole friendly environment is not one of their goals.

[Nid]

I care little for the split up.
I post on both forums, but I'll agree with dutchy here, the backchatter both sides of the split have recieved have been rediculous.
That said, chats with SWR members have not included slagging anyone from FS off at all, and they don't even have topics where they bash FS.

Personally I would prefer it if bashing SWR was not allowed on this forum, it brings up divides between people here, and I'm sure some people here, including myself and Dutchygamer, still maintain friendship bonds across to SWR. It's not pleasant to see bad words said about them, and personally I think is it also a childish way to deal with problems between the two groups.

[Pav:3d]

@OP: Why does it matter? Theyre not insulting your mother by saying that, just chill out.

Personally I dont mind about their departure, I visit their forums to see if they have any updates every now and then coz Im still interested in what they come out with. Its done some good for FS since its no longer gives the impression that its a ZH dominated modding forum.

[Rai]

I joined here, because of them too since the time I got a little tired playing Zero Hour for 2 years and needed researching for new "games", which is related to it and then on that day I found Shockwave, you know the rest.
And the day we all learned they left us to move in their new forums(the reason most of us were here) it didn't stop some of us to become more active here than there. Now did it? It seems we were more attracted in here than there, too.
And also we should give them the respect they deserve for making this community bigger and become more active. They made this forums famous, without them I couldn't even imagine the activity here.

[AZZKIKR]

i would like to say my opinion, SWR mods started the cncreneclips, which one can say, they were the pillar mods that introduced a generally large fanbase. however, the years had passed, and they decided to basically try to be independent, having mods under the name of SWR. While fallout is a more diverse forum, many mods, and relatively active, unfortunately, the SWR is not, based on wat i have seen as a forum member there. the number od people registered there is still low, however, as time progressed, things may change. The SWR and FS forums have always held hands, like a parent with a child. there will be a time when the child will eventually move on, being taught based on experiences learned by the parents. SWR created fallout studios, and FS will nurture SWR.

[Ion Cannon!]

Guess I should say my piece.

The original poster remarked how nobody criticised SWR before they left, actually I criticised them very heavily everywere but on the forum itself.

I do not hate the SWR members, but I think its better they left. Back in 2006 the community was great the mods and admins were great. But somewere it all went wrong. The admins became lazy and while wizard and dauth were in staff posistions they did most of the work. The forums became all about SWR, people were promoted for no reason and SWR just had to much power. It became an inner circle. SWR could get through the staff vote whatever it wanted, as they had majority. So the forum was basically ruled by people who seemed to not care to much about the community side.

Now things are better, we have active admins who do alot of work behind the scenes to bring FS forward. There are no redundant admins as I used to call them.

SWR deserve respect for making a great mod, and had things had stayed the ways of 2006 I doubt this conversation would exist. But this does not give them the right to be arrogant towards other mods, as I know they have.

I am sad to see you go Rayburn, or MDW. You were a good staffer and I loved your dark cyncism. Your wit and your blog was excellent.

I do hold some hate towards one SWR member, but she seems to have dropped off the earth anyway. This is due to the incidents surrounding Nuker being demoted, but I won't go into that.

I wish SWR all the best, and i'm sure the mods will be great. However they have lost my respect somewhat.

[TheDR]

What, is this still on peoples minds?

SWR moved because they wanted a new Forum system, i think it was a selfish act which ended up splitting the already small community.
Now SWR is happy (I think?) with there brand spakin' new forum and Fallout Studios can only get better as we now have game servers, new mods and people returning. So it all sorted it self out really.

And just because Shockwave started this forum (There is no arguing with that fact ), it doesn't need to end it.

Edited by TheDR, 16 July 2009 - 14:08.

[RaiDK]

Thanks guys, you just drove one of my project team members away.

All I can say is that the views of individuals don't reflect the view of the forum as a whole.

[Brad]

Look.
People here will feel angry at SWR for leaving, as it was for a semi-selfish act and it is only natural.
And people will be disgusted by some of the members' hatred.

I do not hold much anger towards SWR, and I hold respect for the mods and the community they have created and will continue to create.

The only thing that still divides us is the fact that many members here cannot let it go, they cannot leave it in the past. They continue to bash.
Look at SWR's forum, they have no FS bashing threads (AFAIK-I don't post there, mabye I will in the future, when the community has settled) and they appear to have left it behind.

Now my question is, why can't everyone else eh?

[Ravager]

Ion Cannon!, on 16 Jul 2009, 8:26, said:

I do not hate the SWR members, but I think its better they left. Back in 2006 the community was great the mods and admins were great. But somewere it all went wrong. The admins became lazy and while wizard and dauth were in staff posistions they did most of the work. The forums became all about SWR, people were promoted for no reason and SWR just had to much power. It became an inner circle. SWR could get through the staff vote whatever it wanted, as they had majority. So the forum was basically ruled by people who seemed to not care to much about the community side.

Now things are better, we have active admins who do alot of work behind the scenes to bring FS forward. There are no redundant admins as I used to call them.

SWR deserve respect for making a great mod, and had things had stayed the ways of 2006 I doubt this conversation would exist. But this does not give them the right to be arrogant towards other mods, as I know they have.

This just about sums up my feelings on the matter. SWR was great for a time, and so was their products. But certain events occured and then everything just went to the shitter. And so this is what it has come down to.

I will agree with the opinion that the forum split will prob be better for both SWR and the FS community. Now it's time for this to end.

--Rav

[Crazykenny]

Wi-Ta, on 16 Jul 2009, 12:45, said:

And to be clear you get on my nerves also Kenny

Wi-Ta

I couldnt care less.

[Foxhound]

Golan, on 16 Jul 2009, 6:42, said:

Indeed it should be noted that before their departure, the SWR team was holding/was involved in key positions of this forum. Coupled with the very high concentration of what can best be described as fanboys, there really wasn't any room for thorough criticism voiced on the forums. As far as I can tell, many a person was none too happy with this situation and felt that many of the SWR team were living in an ivory tower built on an ivory island surrounded by a sea of ivory on an ivory world located in an ivory universe. Especially in light of what reasons were stated for the parting, such feelings were probably aggravated by the recent move.
Furthermore, the new SWR forums show a striking resemblance to the FS forums. It is probably not too far fetched to ponder the idea of the SWR forums being the result of a failed coup d'état. That's not exactly the kind of thing people like.

Me personally, let's just say that there was a reason I insisted on being removed from the team quickly after joining.

Nonetheless, I feel that it is inappropriate to "bash" SWR for what happened.

This man and Ion have hit the nail on the head. I say we keep this quote (and Ion's sentiment about it being better that the fanboys left) around for whenever SWR-FS arguments crop up.

As for myself, while I think SWR moving may have given us a hit to traffic, that it'll be a hell of a lot better from now on. SWR can focus on their producations, and FS can move on to whatever it is FS will move on to. Without the raging fanboyism (and if you tell me there wasn't fanboyism you are flat-out lying to not only us but also yourself) at FS, the community can find its own way, one that isn't muddled by a certain few screaming "OMG MOD TAEM IS BEST" despite the underlying problems, and the fact that, like it or not, the main focus of the mods was already obsolete before they even considered a move.

In fact, in a way, we've already started on that- just look at the TF2 server. We get a decent amount of traffic there. Granted, not every day, and for the time being it's mostly FS members, but I have noticed a fair amount of completely random people coming in.

So, for all the issues we've had over the move, I think it's for the best.

Edited by Foxhound, 16 July 2009 - 17:24.

[Crazykenny]

Quote

Freedom as in an over-regulated politics forum and the Damocles-sword of political correctness hovering over the entire place? The freedom for leaderless mods with zero progress to clog up the index forever? The freedom for adult members to keep everything child-friendly and happy because every discussion has to be kept so light that it doesn't offend any 12 year olds?

So, I'm wondering where you got these ideas from Rayburn, as they seem to be a part of something bigger

[Ascendancy]

I'll add my couple cents here...

I joined E-Studios (which was obviously what it was called way back in 2006) because of SWR, yes, I'll admit it. I thought that perhaps some of my ideas which I never proposed to the modification would be useful, so instead I kept them to myself figuring they'd be way too stupid for everyone to like. Then of course, the friendly people that inhabited this place was also another reason to stick around, plus this was the first forum board I ever came across and registered at.

I know I'm not a real active member, nor am I a famous one at that, but I did contribute here and there on things that caught my eye, including non-SWR projects. I know I'm sure I got a little attention from making the rainbow ammo thread but that's since long been dead. When SWR left Fallout Studios not long ago, I was in a state of shock, because I'm not in on the happenings of this board like others are, and so I didn't understand the reason why until it was published in the other threads concerning the progress forward of this community.

I've registered at their boards to keep track of what's happening, and I'm definitely not one to take sides. I think both of these communities are fine places to inhabit and I will continue to do so because there's no one bothering me to leave and there's no reason to leave. I have some friends here, and there.

In short: I don't hold any hard feelings against SWR for leaving, and nor do I hold hard feelings for what's happened here. I support both communities equally.


Ascendancy

[Kris]

Oh the internets drama! Blah, Lets forget about it and move on. This is just a waste of bloody time and besides, this thread is becoming "why did you joined ES" thread.

*secretly bashes SWR *

Just kidding

Edited by Kris, 16 July 2009 - 18:41.

[MR.Kim]

@AZZKIKR: No, Showckwave mod started the cncreneclips since 2004. Other 2 mods(Wargames and Rise Of The Reds) were came after 3 or 4 yeasr.

Of couser, I joined for the SWR Productions forum. Why? Simeple, to enjoy posts & have some fun. That's all.