70 replies to this topic

[n5p29]

yeah, rotate the pivot to face the right direction.
the turret direction must face the pivot's X-axis

[Golan]

Note that even in older SAGE engines (pre-TW), the most important thing for system strain is the Draw Call Count, polygon count is secondary. Speaking simplified, a 1k model with 10 DCs will require about the same processing power as a 10k model with 1 DC.
A Draw Call is needed for every texture pass on each mesh, the total Draw Call count of a model is thus the sum of all textures per mesh - even when using the exact same texture for two meshes, that's still two Draw Calls. Thus, your primary objective should be to reduce both mesh and texture count, i.e. try welding as much of the model as possible into one single Mesh. The WWSkin modifier is very helpful here as it allows you to subdivide meshes (for example to define turrets, animate legs etc.) without breaking the mesh.
For example, the Mech seen here is just one single mesh.

[H4mm3r]

Ah, Thank you guys.

[Camille]

Golan, on 8 Nov 2009, 10:59, said:

Note that even in older SAGE engines (pre-TW), the most important thing for system strain is the Draw Call Count, polygon count is secondary. Speaking simplified, a 1k model with 10 DCs will require about the same processing power as a 10k model with 1 DC.
A Draw Call is needed for every texture pass on each mesh, the total Draw Call count of a model is thus the sum of all textures per mesh - even when using the exact same texture for two meshes, that's still two Draw Calls. Thus, your primary objective should be to reduce both mesh and texture count, i.e. try welding as much of the model as possible into one single Mesh. The WWSkin modifier is very helpful here as it allows you to subdivide meshes (for example to define turrets, animate legs etc.) without breaking the mesh.
For example, the Mech seen here is just one single mesh.

this is good to know, i always avoid welding to spare out polygons (in fact, most of my models consist of large numbers of separate objects). however, when i make my models into a single mesh (using sketchup this is rather easy), the outcome is literally a ton of extra polies... how does this weigh up against the otherwise high number of draw calls?

[H4mm3r]

So, If i made a regular tank, all i need to make the turret move is to set the pivot with X facing the front of the tank? or are there additional things I need to do.

[Golan]

Camille, on 8 Nov 2009, 12:47, said:

this is good to know, i always avoid welding to spare out polygons (in fact, most of my models consist of large numbers of separate objects). however, when i make my models into a single mesh (using sketchup this is rather easy), the outcome is literally a ton of extra polies... how does this weigh up against the otherwise high number of draw calls?

Keep in mind that a mesh isn't limited to having just one connected "surface" of all its polygons - you do not have to weld verts and cap gaps by adding polygons; intersecting polygons work fine too. Basically, whatever object 3DsMax allows you to create as/convert to a single Editable Mesh/Poly will count as one Mesh when exported to w3d/w3x. Usually, you should be able to combine all objects using the same Material into one single Mesh without having to generate new polys.
It's difficult to give a clear relation on Poly count to DC count for Gens/ZH as the engine uses mainly single-texture materials (thus not requiring multiple passes per poly) as opposed to the 3- to 4-texture materials of TW and later games. As a rule of thumb, cutting the DC count in half should allow you to spend 25% to 50% more polys.

H4mm3r, on 8 Nov 2009, 13:35, said:

So, If i made a regular tank, all i need to make the turret move is to set the pivot with X facing the front of the tank? or are there additional things I need to do.

At least all you have to do on the model. You also need to define the turret in the unit's ini in order to tell the game that there actually is a turret and how to use it.

Edited by Golan, 08 November 2009 - 15:52.

[H4mm3r]

Hmmm. Thanks I wish there was a tutorial that just outlines everything on making a unit. I am sure there is but I havent found it, Well my antivirus is finished so Im off to model

[Slye_Fox]

When making a unit, it must face to the right in the top down view.

[H4mm3r]

Slye_Fox, on 8 Nov 2009, 11:32, said:

When making a unit, it must face to the right in the top down view.

Great tip.

[Gen.Kenobi]

Got it working now?

[H4mm3r]

Gen.Kenobi, on 8 Nov 2009, 12:19, said:

Got it working now?

For the most part, yes. But the bot has 2 part legs and I dont know how to make them bend.

[Gen.Kenobi]

You'll need to animate it.

[H4mm3r]

I've tried, I even went to IK solvers and the legs just screw up, probably cuz there isnt a kneecap to bend at.
Am I right?

[Gen.Kenobi]

Yep, as far that i know you're going to need to use IK Solvers.

When you're ready with the animation, see this tutorial: http://www.moddb.com/groups/command-and-co...s/mechs-working

[H4mm3r]

And that will work with any bipedal mecha?

[Gen.Kenobi]

Well, i guess yes, but i never tryed...

[H4mm3r]

I bookmarked that whole tutorial section, Thank Kenobi.
For now I am working on a power plant, currently 808 poly with about 20 cylinders and a torus with a box.
Every object has at least 8 sides, except for the box of course.

[Gen.Kenobi]

Too high-poly....peharps we should talk by PM.

I could give you some tips in modelling if you wish (i'm not that good)

Edited by Gen.Kenobi, 08 November 2009 - 18:04.

[H4mm3r]

Actually, It pretty low poly cuz if I used the other method it'd be in the 1500's

btw. PM's are slow.
The_H4mm3r@hotmail.com

[Slye_Fox]

on your mech, are you useing westwood's skin binder?

[H4mm3r]

Slye_Fox, on 8 Nov 2009, 14:37, said:

on your mech, are you useing westwood's skin binder?

I use 3DS Max 2010, while applying a gray skin with Material Library. I do that so it doesn't show up pink ingame before I skin it.

Also, I just made a render of the powerplant i was working on, if anyone wants to see it, PM me.
It is my first render EVER.

[Slye_Fox]

Westwood's skin binder has nothing to do with texture so you know.
it's a object that is used to bind mesh vertexes to a bone, so you can animate it like a skeleton, the mesh acts like a skin and follows the bones movements. It's how infantry are animated.

[H4mm3r]

Ah, Okay then

[Gen.Kenobi]

I wish to see it.

BTW i guess your problemans are now solved. Don't forget to UV map the model and skin it.

Edited by Gen.Kenobi, 10 November 2009 - 00:38.

[H4mm3r]

Kenobi, the picture you seen on my moddb profile was just one of my random ones, I have yet to post my reactor, I've been told it "sucks ass"