325 replies to this topic

[Kalo]

Chyros, on 16 Feb 2010, 8:22, said:

Kalo, on 16 Feb 2010, 8:23, said:

The whole kill streak system is another reason I don't play this game. Nuke boosters and bullshit kill streaks ftl.

IMO the killstreak system is pretty good. Killstreaks are powerful but easy to counter. But nuke boosters, yeah, those are quite irritating when you find them. They're rare and usually leave when you interrupt their streak, but still very irritating.

If I had never experienced MW1s Killstreak rewards I wouldn't be so bitchy. But the MW1s were better in the fact they were simple and balanced. Carpet Bombing required a degree of intelligence (Intelligence? IN MY COD?) to use. and the Helis were a good reward for not spawning and dying. But I did of course. I still don't think the AC-130 or Pilotable Helicopter should be there but that's just my opinion on the matter.

[Wanderer]

The only problem I got with those is that it's almost impossible to shoot them down by yourself, as the time it takes to reload a stinger is longer than the time it takes for the planes to reaload their flares.

[Wizard]

The Chopper Gunner is by far the better KS to select and I would go so far as to say, OP. The AC130 has a longer reload and shorter burst than SP version although it's about 20 times harder to shoot down in MP than the CG, that is if you're not killed as soon as it arrives or you'll be slaughtered at the spawn point. The rest of the KS are pretty well balanced. It doesn't take that long to get used to how they work and how to live with them imo. Although I know they are a point of contention for most people who don't like the game. However the most effecient KS in the game, the Harrier, is quite easy to shoot down, if you happen to have an anti air weapon on you.

@ boosters, well they're just little kids who are training to be rapists and crack pushers if you ask me.

[Wanderer]

I find it's easier to shoot down the ac-130 than the chopper gunner. It's hard to get close enough to the chopper and get a lock on without it noticing

[Wizard]

This is probably one of those personal experience things again. I have always had difficulty shooting the AC130 down as it carries two flares iirc and because of it's stupidly high arc I always end up having to shoot it down on maps like Karachi where you can't see the edge of the map for the buildings, whereas the CG is much, much lower and sometimes you can sneak up on it below and take it down in one shot. However, haven't been able to do that on wasteland yet, for obvious reasons.

[Stalker]

Kalo, on 16 Feb 2010, 9:23, said:

If I had never experienced MW1s Killstreak rewards I wouldn't be so bitchy. But the MW1s were better in the fact they were simple and balanced. Carpet Bombing required a degree of intelligence (Intelligence? IN MY COD?) to use. and the Helis were a good reward for not spawning and dying. But I did of course. I still don't think the AC-130 or Pilotable Helicopter should be there but that's just my opinion on the matter.

^ this ^

Theoretically MW2's killstreaks sound awesome, but in the end MW1's system was much better. Sure there were lots of spawn rapes but that was mostly because of the high player count. (and now imagine 32+ players on Wasteland + AC130 or CG)

I think the best way to balance killstreaks would be to limit them to 3, 5 and 7 like in MW1, but let you choose from 1-3 per kill.

Because of CG's or AC130's the game is just about kills.No teamplay at all, and that's one of the reasons I'm already tired of this game (in Public matches)

[Wizard]

TBH about 95% of the issues with this game would be solved by the addition of dedi support and modding tools.

[Wanderer]

I was just talking with my friend about the same thing and we came to the same conclusion

[Wizard]

It's amazing how those that play it can work that out, but those who designed it can't

[Destiny]

Well Wiz, their beta testers must be crap. =/

[Wizard]

Their beta testers were probably Rob "Twatter" Bowling and his console fanboys mates. All two of em.

Edited by Wizard, 16 February 2010 - 10:26.

[Wanderer]

Even with all it's problems and bugs and hackers and iwnet- failures I still enjoy playing it which is quite astonishing while considering the amount of problems this game has

[Wizard]

Imagine what it would be like if it got fixed

[Chyros]

Kalo, on 16 Feb 2010, 10:23, said:

Chyros, on 16 Feb 2010, 8:22, said:

Kalo, on 16 Feb 2010, 8:23, said:

The whole kill streak system is another reason I don't play this game. Nuke boosters and bullshit kill streaks ftl.

IMO the killstreak system is pretty good. Killstreaks are powerful but easy to counter. But nuke boosters, yeah, those are quite irritating when you find them. They're rare and usually leave when you interrupt their streak, but still very irritating.

If I had never experienced MW1s Killstreak rewards I wouldn't be so bitchy. But the MW1s were better in the fact they were simple and balanced. Carpet Bombing required a degree of intelligence (Intelligence? IN MY COD?) to use. and the Helis were a good reward for not spawning and dying. But I did of course. I still don't think the AC-130 or Pilotable Helicopter should be there but that's just my opinion on the matter.

The CoD 4 streaks were MUCH worse. The Airstrike was undirectional and therefore somewhat based on luck, and the helicopter couldn't be reliably taken out (worse, it targeted you when you tried to take it down) without an analog of Cold-blooded being available as a hard counter. It basically killed the game when it came into play. Now, you can take everything down.

Wanderer, on 16 Feb 2010, 10:33, said:

The only problem I got with those is that it's almost impossible to shoot them down by yourself, as the time it takes to reload a stinger is longer than the time it takes for the planes to reaload their flares.

Hardpoints don't regenerate flares.

Wizard, on 16 Feb 2010, 10:50, said:

The Chopper Gunner is by far the better KS to select and I would go so far as to say, OP. The AC130 has a longer reload and shorter burst than SP version although it's about 20 times harder to shoot down in MP than the CG, that is if you're not killed as soon as it arrives or you'll be slaughtered at the spawn point. The rest of the KS are pretty well balanced. It doesn't take that long to get used to how they work and how to live with them imo. Although I know they are a point of contention for most people who don't like the game. However the most effecient KS in the game, the Harrier, is quite easy to shoot down, if you happen to have an anti air weapon on you.

@ boosters, well they're just little kids who are training to be rapists and crack pushers if you ask me.

Wanderer, on 16 Feb 2010, 11:01, said:

I find it's easier to shoot down the ac-130 than the chopper gunner. It's hard to get close enough to the chopper and get a lock on without it noticing

Wizard, on 16 Feb 2010, 11:17, said:

This is probably one of those personal experience things again. I have always had difficulty shooting the AC130 down as it carries two flares iirc and because of it's stupidly high arc I always end up having to shoot it down on maps like Karachi where you can't see the edge of the map for the buildings, whereas the CG is much, much lower and sometimes you can sneak up on it below and take it down in one shot. However, haven't been able to do that on wasteland yet, for obvious reasons.

The AC-130 requires concerted team effort to take down before it leaves the map, generally speaking. The CG is quite easy to take out, even before it even makes a kill.

Wizard, on 16 Feb 2010, 11:48, said:

TBH about 95% of the issues with this game would be solved by the addition of dedi support and modding tools.

No, all of them would be, and then some.

Wizard, on 16 Feb 2010, 12:15, said:

Their beta testers were probably Rob "Twatter" Bowling and his console fanboys mates. All two of em.

Tbh the bad balance is partially the result of the game being balanced for consoles, so that would make sense. A classic example of a console port ruining aspects of a PC game.

[Wizard]

Chyros, on 16 Feb 2010, 11:23, said:

Wizard, on 16 Feb 2010, 12:15, said:

Their beta testers were probably Rob "Twatter" Bowling and his console fanboys mates. All two of em.

Tbh the bad balance is partially the result of the game being balanced for consoles, so that would make sense. A classic example of a console port ruining aspects of a PC game.

By this I assume you mean balanced for lower skill levels?

[Chyros]

Wizard, on 16 Feb 2010, 13:36, said:

Chyros, on 16 Feb 2010, 11:23, said:

Wizard, on 16 Feb 2010, 12:15, said:

Their beta testers were probably Rob "Twatter" Bowling and his console fanboys mates. All two of em.

Tbh the bad balance is partially the result of the game being balanced for consoles, so that would make sense. A classic example of a console port ruining aspects of a PC game.

By this I assume you mean balanced for lower skill levels?

No, that's another facet of the balance but it's not the console facet of it. The point is that consoles are very difficult to control compared to a mouse and keyboard and because of this factors like idling, recoil and hip view kick have a very big impact on console-based FPS games whereas they are extremely easy to compensate for on the PC. Therefore, elements like that that were put in place to counterbalance some weapons on the console do not have these drawbacks on the PC.

[Wizard]

That was, in fact, what I really meant. I should've said lower capability levels rather than skill

[Mbob61]

To be honest, i never really have much trouble with the kill streaks. I think getting an AC-130 or Chopper gunner in a care package is a bit insane but other than that i don't really have any issue with them. They seem nicely varied and are damaging enough to compensate for how easy they are to shoot down.
The new system is infinitely better than the system in MW1. For a start, getting a chopper in modern warfare 1 was very easy and didn't really become a big reward after i'd played for a while. Also, because of the lack of Homing AA weapons and the crazyness of the RPG, shotting down the helis was very hard on some maps. They newer system seems much more rewarding. Sure they are much more damaging but things like the harrier or CG are pretty easy to shoot down. The harrier only requires 1 person (normally only 1 shot) and the CG 1-2 people. Therefore with a bit of teamwork (something which seems to be quick lacking in this game if you aren't playing with friends) you can quite easily counter the really damaging ones. There is always the option to just stay inside?

About the Gun balance, that doesn't really bother me either. Most guns are just as insane as all the other ones which makes it kinda balanced in a strange sort of way. Snipers don't seem useful enough on most maps other than wasteland but other than that, i think they work.
At the end of the day, the game is fun which is all i really care about

Mike

[Wizard]

Mbob61, on 16 Feb 2010, 12:36, said:

About the Gun balance, that doesn't really bother me either. Most guns are just as insane as all the other ones which makes it kinda balanced in a strange sort of way. Snipers don't seem useful enough on most maps other than wasteland but other than that, i think they work.
At the end of the day, the game is fun which is all i really care about

Don't forget Derail and the main aisle in Highrise. Other than that they are redundant. But your point about ARs is very much based on your position as a console player. You have little to no ability to correct your aim with a controller hence the absolute minimal recoil/sway. For consoles that works but it only serves to prove that PC version is straight port and less skilled than it should be.

[Chyros]

Wizard, on 16 Feb 2010, 14:47, said:

Mbob61, on 16 Feb 2010, 12:36, said:

About the Gun balance, that doesn't really bother me either. Most guns are just as insane as all the other ones which makes it kinda balanced in a strange sort of way. Snipers don't seem useful enough on most maps other than wasteland but other than that, i think they work.
At the end of the day, the game is fun which is all i really care about

Don't forget Derail and the main aisle in Highrise. Other than that they are redundant. But your point about ARs is very much based on your position as a console player. You have little to no ability to correct your aim with a controller hence the absolute minimal recoil/sway. For consoles that works but it only serves to prove that PC version is straight port and less skilled than it should be.

Agreed, the complete lack of recoil on assault rifles devastates weapon balance on the PC because relatively low per-shot power isn't enough of a weakness when you can keep your aim on target at all times and damageviewkick does the rest. It's like the recoil from your weapon shows up on the target's screen instead. In addition, tighter/wider hip crosshairs do not compensate for this and neither does one-shot capabilities with sniper rifles especially now that the breath system completely sucks. Basically SMGs and sniper rifles are utterly redundant as assault rifles and most LMGs do everything better than either class.

[Mbob61]

I think its the Machine Pistol which make the SMG's redundant. With them you can basically take an AR and SMG at the same time.

Mike

[Wanderer]

If you are good enough, yes, but the SMG still has range advantage over the machine pistol.

[Wizard]

I am not 100% sure why the machine pistols have the range they do. The G18 & Raficas are just far too powerful and the PP2000 is simply all round good.

[Chyros]

Mbob61, on 16 Feb 2010, 18:19, said:

I think its the Machine Pistol which make the SMG's redundant. With them you can basically take an AR and SMG at the same time.

Mike

You can swap weapons twice and get the "most weapon swaps" accolade. You don't NEED to switch from your AR to a machine pistol for close combat. The AR itself is easily overpowered enough to take out any target at close range as well.

Wanderer, on 16 Feb 2010, 20:03, said:

If you are good enough, yes, but the SMG still has range advantage over the machine pistol.

Wizard, on 16 Feb 2010, 21:00, said:

I am not 100% sure why the machine pistols have the range they do. The G18 & Raficas are just far too powerful and the PP2000 is simply all round good.

In terms of range where it means "distance at which it still does full damage", the SMGs beat machine pistols by a very small margin, though both have very short ranges. In terms where it means "where you can effectively engage enemies", the machine pistols' ranges beat SMGs by several miles. SMGs are ridiculously underpowered and not a viable weapon under any conceivable set of circumstances.

[TehKiller]

*get out of his grave and notices something interesting*

Chyros, on 16 Feb 2010, 12:23, said:

[The CoD 4 streaks were MUCH worse. The Airstrike was undirectional and therefore somewhat based on luck.

No. You should know better than that

The airstrikes in MW1 are actually directional. They would always face the direction from which you called the airstrike in.

Im lazy to search the "Imagine Wasteland with +32 players" sentence but I ll say that I can imagine that and claim that 64 players on that map is far better (CoD:UO duh )


*lays back to grave*