29 replies to this topic

[Anubis]

Well this is my second and last pseudo-review . Starcraft 2 and Supreme Commander 2 were my 2 most expected games of 2010. I was expecting some screw ups, but i must say, after playn both games ... i lost my faith in today's game producers down to a point i no longer expect anything from a game. As the librarian in DoW used to say ... hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. Well ... supreme commander was one of those ... rather hard core rts games. It was a pure rts, without any rpg or any other influences. A lot of gameplay mechanics, alot of cool features, really interesting factions and designs, and crap loads of strategical variety. You had the chance to play the game any way you liked it. But it's economical mechanics and tier system made it a bit hard for a more casual player. And since the market is already overwhelmed with casual shity strategies, i was hoping supreme commander 2 would stay true to it's legacy. I was sooo wrong. Supreme commander 2 is nothing more than a casual strategy with almost nothing left from it's predecessor. From here on ... warning ... possible spoilers.

First the tier system. While it was slow and heavy on minerals the tier system allowed for a more strategical approach of the game. However it offered alot of dead times from time to time, so the decision to replace it with the new tech system was in a way inspired. But this is down to a point. Because the new system is so simple it makes the game feel nothing like a real challenge. You have 5 types of upgrades : ground ( for all vehicles except the acu and experimentals ), air ( all air units except experimentals ), naval, structures and acu. You gain tech points over time at a slow rate and each upgrade within those categories costs tech points. However you can increase the tech point rate with tech labs. Build 6-8 tech labs and you will have the entire tech tree unlocked in a few min.
Then we have the resources. the old system with production that drained resources and tier based resource production as well as all the late game secondary economy structures ( like the large T3 mass generator ) are gone. Now you build just mass extractors that extract at a constant rate, and energy generators that generate energy. All builds have a fixed price, so you won't lose reources as you build anymore. Typical casual crap. The amount of units has been reduced to this :

A. ground:

1 tank
1 AA
1 artillery
1 missile artillery
2 special units

B. Air:

1 fighter/bomber
1 bomber ( only for uef )
1 gunship
1 transport

C. Naval:

1 anti-ship
1 anti-air
1 heavy ship

D. Experimentals

there are arround 5 - 6 experimentals for each faction.

From all the units we used to have, this is all there is left. The number of structures has also been reduced to only a few. No more mass/energy deposits, no more tier defenses or factories, etc. All you have now is like this :

- ground factory
- air factory
- naval factory ( only for cybran and uef )
- mass extractor
- energy generator
- tech lab ( increases tech points rate )
- point defense
- AA point defense
- radar
- sonar ( only for cybran and uef )
- small shield generator
- long range defense
- extreme range artillery
- mass convertor ( converts 1000 units of energy to some small amount of mass )
- anti-nuke defense
- nuke silo
- experimentals factory
- 1-2 experimental structures for each faction.

So from the complex but really cool economical/base macro we had in supreme commander, we are left with a husk in this one. 10 units per faction ( ground + air+naval ) with some 5 experimentals and a few structures and that's it. And to make things even worse, unit/structure visuals are pure crap. Most of all UEF and Cybra. Those of you who followed the trailers ... it's the same alpha-stage looking textures.
So what is left from the old cool gameplay mechanics. Well the factions are still the same 3. Resources are still energy and mass. And we still have mass points on the map. Except for that ... nothing. Only 1 engineer can build a structure now ( thank god they can still inc the production speed ), and that's just about it. I'm all for gameplay evolution and improving a game in it's sequel. But how the hell can they call improve the gameplay when they transformed supreme commander in a cheap combination between DoW ( mass points on the map ) and CnC ( very few units, very few buildings, only strategy = massing of units ). All i can say is RIP Supreme Commander. You were an awsome game, but you were butchered into a shity casual boring and extremly ungly new one. Cause of there is one last thing i must say ... the design they did for must of the stuff in this new game is co much crap ... it's almost as if they hired the same designers that worked on cnc4.

[IPS]

hm thought so...
"ll i can say is RIP Supreme Commander. " sad but true

[Camille]

i must say that just like you, i am tremendously pissed off at today's game developers. EVERYTHING is so fucking dumbed down it's not even funny any more.

it seems as if the devs simply distil past successes and popular parts of games to create these retarded abominations that they dare to call games.

casual gaming is the death of gaming as we know it and there's not a single shit we can do about it.

*profanity and general disbelief* and people wonder why indie games are suddenly so popular.

my moral side should say "they're now both different games and difference is good, right?" but my COMMON SENSE side is jabbing me in the face and screaming FUCK DIS SHIT in my ear.

edit: edited text.

Edited by Camille, 04 March 2010 - 19:06.

[Mbob61]

I haven't played it but Camille's post sums up my view of gaming PERFECTLY!
Couldn't have put it better myself.
Death to casual gamers!

Mike

[Camille]

oh and anubis: your "idiocracy" subscript couldn't be any more correct. the world really is changing into a collection of big red and green buttons that simply execute everything for you.

[Mbob61]

Anubis, is this view based on the full game or the demo?
If its the demo they may well have removed a lot of content for each of the factions. Also, each faction will be getting 9 experimentals if i remember rightly

Mike

[Anubis]

I'm half through the campaign. I'm not allowed to say anything about how i got the game. But yes it's the full game. If you can call it full ...

[Dispenser]

Well, my suspicions from the demo have been confirmed then... not going to be buying this, maps being more than just a heightmap and texture isn't good enough for me when there's a unit upgrade/research system, dumbed down economy and few unit choices along with worse visuals in some cases...

Edit: oh and not being able to turn formations anymore is super annoying too

Edited by Dispenser, 04 March 2010 - 21:40.

[Mbob61]

Not enough units, Nerfed eco, crazy tech up system, non "epic" epic units.
I HATE casual gaming. I will need to test a bit more but the skirmishes didn't get off to a good start.
*Is rather disappointed. Goes back to Forged Alliance with Sam*

Mike

Edit - Hype is the devil.

Edited by Mbob61, 05 March 2010 - 22:54.

[Crazykenny]

Glad I still have a copy of the original SupCom. I still enjoy playing that

[Mbob61]

Get the Expansion "forged Alliance". It adds a lot of content to the first game

Mike

[Crazykenny]

I have that aswell Just not as.... physical if you know what I mean.

[Mbob61]

I get your gist

Mike

[Crazykenny]

Besides, I rip all my games of the CD. Just incase I lose the fore-mentioned CD

See:


Better safe then sorry I say

[Dutchygamer]

Someone must have a really large HDD then 1TB I guess?
Anyways, on-topic: I liked TA, but SupCom 1 was a bit too slow for me. As for SupCom2: I've only tried the demo. I liked it, but I still think I will play C&C4 more then SupCom2, so I'll save my money for something else.

[Ion Cannon!]

 Mbob61, on 5 Mar 2010, 22:52, said:

Not enough units, Nerfed eco, crazy tech up system, non "epic" epic units.
I HATE casual gaming. I will need to test a bit more but the skirmishes didn't get off to a good start.
*Is rather disappointed. Goes back to Forged Alliance with Sam*

Mike

Edit - Hype is the devil.

Its sad to see the franchise head this direction, ah well, guess i'll save my money for DA Origins.

[Crazykenny]

 Dutchygamer, on 6 Mar 2010, 11:21, said:

Someone must have a really large HDD then 1TB I guess?
Anyways, on-topic: I liked TA, but SupCom 1 was a bit too slow for me. As for SupCom2: I've only tried the demo. I liked it, but I still think I will play C&C4 more then SupCom2, so I'll save my money for something else.

The slow gameplay is exactly what appeals to me. Gives much more headroom for large scale battles on multiple fronts. The zoom level helps micromanagement allot, coordinating sea, air and land battle all at the same time is a breeze.

I dont really get that with C&C, its mostly smaller confrontations with a variaty of units and I've never seen people attack one more then 2 fronts at the same time, just because its harder to micromanage your troops.

Just my 2 cents.

[Anubis]

Supreme commander is a pure strategy game. It was the only game that allowed the player to do more than just mass some units and march forward. The slow part is exactly what made it strategical. And the huge amount of units and structures as well as the possibility to go in all 3 directions ( ground, sea, air ), allowed for a huge variety of possibilities. I had enough games that are suppose to end in 20 min, and in which you constantly have to run around the map all the time with some units. But, like all the other game companies GPG realized that complexity no longer sells. So the only logical solution ... simplify the game to the point of stupidity so it would sell more. I stand by my post ... Idiocracy ... here we come. But i realize it's to late for this. Cause it's already happening. The end of the world as we know it is coming. But it wont be in apocalyptic fires and and great earthquakes, but in the return of man to it's origins. Shit for brains, with only the need to eat, sleep and fuck. We came from monkeys ... we are returning to them.

[Camille]

holy shit kenny that's a LOT of games right there

[Crazykenny]

 Anubis, on 6 Mar 2010, 14:24, said:

Supreme commander is a pure strategy game. It was the only game that allowed the player to do more than just mass some units and march forward. The slow part is exactly what made it strategical. And the huge amount of units and structures as well as the possibility to go in all 3 directions ( ground, sea, air ), allowed for a huge variety of possibilities. I had enough games that are suppose to end in 20 min, and in which you constantly have to run around the map all the time with some units. But, like all the other game companies GPG realized that complexity no longer sells. So the only logical solution ... simplify the game to the point of stupidity so it would sell more. I stand by my post ... Idiocracy ... here we come. But i realize it's to late for this. Cause it's already happening. The end of the world as we know it is coming. But it wont be in apocalyptic fires and and great earthquakes, but in the return of man to it's origins. Shit for brains, with only the need to eat, sleep and fuck. We came from monkeys ... we are returning to them.

You hit the nail right on the head there. I cant agree more.

 Camille, on 6 Mar 2010, 14:44, said:

holy shit kenny that's a LOT of games right there

You aint seen nothing yet, thats not even 50% of all the games I have *evil grin*

[Shirou]

I was afraid of this, sucks

[Dr. Strangelove]

Man, I really enjoyed Forged Alliance and Total Annihilation. I thought for sure I was going to get this, but I guess not.

[Dutchygamer]

Maybe I'm too used to the 'faster-paced' C&C style then

[H4mm3r]

Well, after learning that SupCom 2 had been released yesterday, I rushed to the store and bought it.
Bare in mind, I have 56k rated internet, (with no other options AFAIK)
I slid the disc in my computer, and the installation program started.
First, I had to download + install Steam. Doing this on 56k took over an hour, but I stood by because I really want to see this game. Afterwords I have SupCom 2 and Steam installed, I go to hit the shortcut to launch SC2 and the Steam platform comes up. It tells me that the game is not ready to be played and that it must be updated to be launched.
Reminder - 56k internet.
So I got to the window to where it would estimate when I'd be able to play it, it said 2 DAYS.
So this made me pretty mad. I just wanted to play my game and now I must leave my computer on to download the patches, and my internet disconnects itself every 12 hours. If I don't pause the update and the 'net disconnects I lose everything.

Is everyone going through this? The patch is downloading at 9.6kb/s and I have never used Steam, so I don't know how to speed it up.

To be blunt, I just want to play the damn game, but I'm not sure if it's worth it anymore.

Does anyone know how to help me out?
Thanks in advance.

[Wizard]

You can speed it up by getting a better internet connection. Failing that you're buggered.