An interesting chatlog with...
Kris
04 Apr 2010
..Me and Aaron Kaufman AKA EA_Apoc..
All i can say about that is this:
and this:
Edited by Kris, 04 April 2010 - 22:27.
Quote
Kris: A widescreen and Win 7 patch for ZH would be neat 
Apoc: So would Generals 2...lol
Kris: OMG, You breached your NDA! *sues* lol haha
Kris: If you guys do bother making Generals 2. Please, for the love of god, keep the original gameplay designed by Westwood! Lol
Apoc: oy vey...u guys and Westwood..all i can tell u is, whatever we do next, u guys will be involved
Apoc: u do know westwood made critically worse games than we did....aside from C&C 4
Kris: tell that to Generals
Apoc: Westwood did not make Generals! that was EA Games son...maybe 1/4 of that team was former Westwood people
Kris: Westwood made Generals in 2002
Apoc: u guys no nothing when u speak of westwood
Apoc: no, they did not
Kris: *gets article*
Aaron: EA bought Westwood
Kris:....In 1997
Apoc: call it what u want, but it was pretty much "EA"
Apoc: i get it though
Kris: Westwood existed 'till 2004...i think
Apoc: RA2 was much more a Westwood game than EA
Kris: Remember Earth and Beyond?
Apoc: mmmm, not really
Apoc: of course
Kris: Last westwood game ever made
Apoc: i started at EA in February 2004
Kris: before EALA completely shut it down
Apoc: there was no Westwood then
Apoc: thats bullshit...we did not do that. Westwood abandoned itself, When the founders left, it wasn't Westwood any more.
Apoc: RA2 was the last dominant Westwood game that was half Westwood, half EA
Kris: http://pc.ign.com/ar...5/355458p1.html here ya go
Kris: it clearly mentions "Westwood"....I actually talked to Mr Skaggs to
Apoc: Generals was comprised of a lot of people not from Westwood
Apoc:
Skaggs never worked for Westwood
anyways, its a flawed argument
when EA bought Westwood is when the hardcore fans say C&C jumped the shark
EA helped Westwood make better C&C titles
RA2, Generals, best selling C&C of all time alongside C&C 3
either way, the Westwood spirit is in every C&C game
its the core mechanics people want left alone
but u cant make the same C&C every year with new graphics
u follow?
Apoc: but like i said, my quote about the pendulum swinging too far rings true for C&C 4
Apoc: gotta go my friend
Kris: okay
Apoc: So would Generals 2...lol
Kris: OMG, You breached your NDA! *sues*
lol hahaKris: If you guys do bother making Generals 2. Please, for the love of god, keep the original gameplay designed by Westwood! Lol
Apoc: oy vey...u guys and Westwood..all i can tell u is, whatever we do next, u guys will be involved
Apoc: u do know westwood made critically worse games than we did....aside from C&C 4
Kris: tell that to Generals
Apoc: Westwood did not make Generals! that was EA Games son...maybe 1/4 of that team was former Westwood people
Kris: Westwood made Generals in 2002
Apoc: u guys no nothing when u speak of westwood
Apoc: no, they did not
Kris: *gets article*
Aaron: EA bought Westwood
Kris:....In 1997
Apoc: call it what u want, but it was pretty much "EA"
Apoc: i get it though
Kris: Westwood existed 'till 2004...i think
Apoc: RA2 was much more a Westwood game than EA
Kris: Remember Earth and Beyond?
Apoc: mmmm, not really
Apoc: of course
Kris: Last westwood game ever made
Apoc: i started at EA in February 2004
Kris: before EALA completely shut it down
Apoc: there was no Westwood then
Apoc: thats bullshit...we did not do that. Westwood abandoned itself, When the founders left, it wasn't Westwood any more.
Apoc: RA2 was the last dominant Westwood game that was half Westwood, half EA
Kris: http://pc.ign.com/ar...5/355458p1.html here ya go
Kris: it clearly mentions "Westwood"....I actually talked to Mr Skaggs to
Apoc: Generals was comprised of a lot of people not from Westwood
Apoc:
Skaggs never worked for Westwood
anyways, its a flawed argument
when EA bought Westwood is when the hardcore fans say C&C jumped the shark
EA helped Westwood make better C&C titles
RA2, Generals, best selling C&C of all time alongside C&C 3
either way, the Westwood spirit is in every C&C game
its the core mechanics people want left alone
but u cant make the same C&C every year with new graphics
u follow?
Apoc: but like i said, my quote about the pendulum swinging too far rings true for C&C 4
Apoc: gotta go my friend
Kris: okay
Quote
Apoc:
Skaggs never worked for Westwood
Skaggs never worked for Westwood
All i can say about that is this:
and this:
Edited by Kris, 04 April 2010 - 22:27.
Pav:3d
04 Apr 2010
Why on earth didnt you grill him more about Gens 2 instead of arguing whats westwood or not!
Ion Cannon!
04 Apr 2010
Pav3d, on 4 Apr 2010, 23:27, said:
Why on earth didnt you grill him more about Gens 2 instead of arguing whats westwood or not!
Because he's silly.
Kris
04 Apr 2010
Apoc raged at me so i never had the chance to grill him about Generals 2
Edited by Kris, 04 April 2010 - 22:47.
Edited by Kris, 04 April 2010 - 22:47.
Sgt. Rho
04 Apr 2010
Hobbesy, on 5 Apr 2010, 0:54, said:
Didn't Apoc leave EA a few months back?
That was 2_Poc
Kris
05 Apr 2010
Haha, I told this "denial" of Apoc to Mark Skaggs himself and he facepalmed too 
Ion Cannon!
05 Apr 2010
Kris, on 5 Apr 2010, 1:05, said:
Haha, I told this "denial" of Apoc to Mark Skaggs himself and he facepalmed too
Yeah, I saw a member of that name reading the thread ^
Libains
05 Apr 2010
*Knew before either of you because I had to approve him*
And tbh, I'd say that no matter the influence of Westwood or not, games with the Westwood label, or heavy input (Generals) were good. When they got rid of it, the games dropped off quite quickly, becoming the disasterous game that was C&C4.
And tbh, I'd say that no matter the influence of Westwood or not, games with the Westwood label, or heavy input (Generals) were good. When they got rid of it, the games dropped off quite quickly, becoming the disasterous game that was C&C4.
n5p29
05 Apr 2010
Kris, on 5 Apr 2010, 5:43, said:
Apoc raged at me so i never had the chance to grill him about Generals 2
I think he's tired of fans on the official forum who cries for westwood return, so he raged at you.
and yeah, too bad you didn't grill him for Generals 2.
Mark Skaggs
05 Apr 2010
To set the record straight....
I was hired by Brett Sperry in 1997 to run the Virgin (Irvine) studio. Virgin owned Westwood at the time, but Brett and Lou were running world wide product development for Virgin.
EA bought Westwood in 1998 and we renamed the Irvine studio to Westwood Pacific. I was was on the Westwood exec team and traveled to Westwood in Las Vegas about once a week (for many many months) to participate in various things going on and to learn about making RTS games from Brett.
Westwood Pacific was a "child studio" of Westwood Las Vegas. We reported to Westwood Las Vegas who then reported to EA.
There was one person from Westwood Las Vegas who joined our team in Irvine. His name was Jeff Brown and he joined us as a network engineer, quick moving to be technical leader and then development director. He's a rock star.
Westwood Pacific created Red Alert 2 and Yuri's Revenge. We also released Nox and helped on C&C N64 and Dune Emperor. We also released a Racing game.
During the development of Generals, we changed our name to EA Pacific. We released Generals in 2003 just before EA combined Las Vegas, Irvine and EA LA into a single studio in LA.
At EALA, we created Battle for Middle-earth. It shipped in late 2004. I left EA in early 2005.
From what I remember Apoc was working in Marketing for Craig Owens and I asked him to join the RTS team as community manager.
Think you guys can look up the rest of the history from there.
My time at Westwood, in particular, working with Brett, Lou, Steve Wetherill and Laura Miele were some of my best memories of my career in games. Westwood was one of those rare combinations of talent at a moment in time that I'm not sure could ever be recreated.
And to be clear, I have no comments about the C&C titles that were created after I left EA. I wasn't there so even if I did have comments, they wouldn't be relevant.
Cheers!
Mark Skaggs
I was hired by Brett Sperry in 1997 to run the Virgin (Irvine) studio. Virgin owned Westwood at the time, but Brett and Lou were running world wide product development for Virgin.
EA bought Westwood in 1998 and we renamed the Irvine studio to Westwood Pacific. I was was on the Westwood exec team and traveled to Westwood in Las Vegas about once a week (for many many months) to participate in various things going on and to learn about making RTS games from Brett.
Westwood Pacific was a "child studio" of Westwood Las Vegas. We reported to Westwood Las Vegas who then reported to EA.
There was one person from Westwood Las Vegas who joined our team in Irvine. His name was Jeff Brown and he joined us as a network engineer, quick moving to be technical leader and then development director. He's a rock star.
Westwood Pacific created Red Alert 2 and Yuri's Revenge. We also released Nox and helped on C&C N64 and Dune Emperor. We also released a Racing game.
During the development of Generals, we changed our name to EA Pacific. We released Generals in 2003 just before EA combined Las Vegas, Irvine and EA LA into a single studio in LA.
At EALA, we created Battle for Middle-earth. It shipped in late 2004. I left EA in early 2005.
From what I remember Apoc was working in Marketing for Craig Owens and I asked him to join the RTS team as community manager.
Think you guys can look up the rest of the history from there.
My time at Westwood, in particular, working with Brett, Lou, Steve Wetherill and Laura Miele were some of my best memories of my career in games. Westwood was one of those rare combinations of talent at a moment in time that I'm not sure could ever be recreated.
And to be clear, I have no comments about the C&C titles that were created after I left EA. I wasn't there so even if I did have comments, they wouldn't be relevant.
Cheers!
Mark Skaggs
Kris
05 Apr 2010
Welcome my brother! That was a nice post and that should clear apoc's confusion
BeefJeRKy
05 Apr 2010
Well I know that the Generals that Westwood originally had in mind still had an element of camp in it, so I'm glad it was done as it is now whether by Westwood or EA. Does it matter who makes the game if it's good? It was cool to see Mark Skaggs pass by btw. I hope that C&C4 will be the last iteration of C&C or any RTS type game developed in its fashion. C&C3 and RA3 while mediocre were still playable and the campaigns were decent enough fun. I feel no compulsion at all for C&C4 on the other hand.
Lizzie
05 Apr 2010
Scope, on 5 Apr 2010, 2:22, said:
Well I know that the Generals that Westwood originally had in mind still had an element of camp in it, so I'm glad it was done as it is now whether by Westwood or EA.
You're saying it doesn't have camp now?
BeefJeRKy
05 Apr 2010
Well far less than the Red Alert series that's for sure, and also less than those older concepts seem to indicate. The current Generals feels like a heavy exercise in stereotypes tbh. Red Alert was a "what if" speculation about all kinds of older sci-fi themes.
Golan
05 Apr 2010
Don't you think the poor guy is being mauled by the community enough already? 
Hottwire
08 Apr 2010
Major CnC fan here, and tbh i enjoyed all of them still prefer the originals but was MAJORLY let down by CnC4 ,i bought it played it got to the end in a day and that's it normally would take me a good few days and i would enjoy them, but put that aside i tried playing it just for the story and still i personally feel that i want my money back.
Shirou
12 Apr 2010
I think Apoc is on the brink of losing his Sanity to the loads and loads of criticism he has to endure as EA's messenger, actively trying to deny most of what Kris is saying there. He should be more informed about the Westwood pacific and Las Vegas differences which could cause confusion..
Edited by Trivmvirate, 12 April 2010 - 21:06.
Edited by Trivmvirate, 12 April 2010 - 21:06.
