88 replies to this topic

[Ion Cannon!]

[quote name='AJ' post='769898' date='10 May 2010, 19:29']I wouldn't say Gordon Brown will do much good for Labour in some respects - his leaving has been covered by 'I want to do what is best for the country', but at the end of the day, he and the party he led was a failure in this election, and he's now giving up. Frankly, Milliband is their only option, and Milliband is unacceptable.

Insert irony:



So Gordon is the way forward and they're going to win it under him. Milliband's an annoying little shite who's so far up America's backside you can only see his feet. Oh, and if this Labour - Lib Dem coalition does go ahead, we will, ONCE AGAIN, have an unelected PM (yes I know constitutionally that we do not have an elected PM, but Milliband was not campaigning for the Party, he was not the public face of his party). Frankly, if this coalition goes ahead, and this little bugger gets into any form of power (frankly he has too much of it already), I will entirely give up on this country and its sodding politics, as it's foul, corrupt, and genuinely useless.

Minority government won't work constitutionally really, and an early election will likely result in most people saying exactly the same thing. The country's political system is up shit creek without a paddle (or a majority government), and we're going to go to hell these next few years. Countries/big business will not invest. The financial crisis will not be solved. The value of the pound will drop (which as a result may see us adopt the Euro). And we will have a mess of parties in power who can't agree on anything, which in turn may result in damaging Parliament further (PC and SNP will tear the country to pieces (literally) if they get a whiff of power). And we will have the biggest Party in the country, as elected by the people of Great Britain, leading the opposition.

Best we can hope for now is that Milliband and his Lib Dem buddies absolutely screw up the system, so we can go back to a majority government next election.

For the record tho, any queries on constitutional law gladly received [/quote]

You posted a video of what Milliband said about the supposed PM challenge from sometime last year? I expected better of you AJ. I don't see whats wrong with Milliband tbh, other labour MP's who have always come off as quite good people are - Alan Johnson, Jack Straw and Ed Balls. I'm afraid I can't really think of any torys that have done the same.

I ask a question of you though, as a tory does it not annoy you that Cameron says pretty much nothing? I know its what all politicians do to an extent, but he pretty much never answers a question.

[Libains]

And crap I just deleted everything here by accident, not good. To write it all again:

The point about the election support stands, sod the fact it's like 4 months old, it's still relevant, it's still in context. Disregard the coup parts because they don't matter.

Milliband is a creepy little man who sneaks around people's backs, uses ass-kissing to get into powers, and generally pisses around with America. The man is not a suitable PM in my eyes, and I will state once again, that he would be utterly unelected. Add to that claiming £30k in expenses for re-doing the inside of his house in his constituency. Frankly, he can go to Hell.

Alan Johnson - too old, too removed from Parliament, hell probably doesn't even want the job.

Jack Straw - yeah, epic fail, not even the BBC seems him as a substantial threat anymore, he's way too old (64 iirc)

Ed Balls - barely kept his seat as an MP, loyal Gordon supporter, you put him into power and he's going to be Gordon all over again.

As to David Cameron, he's dragged the Tories out of the gutter, onto centre stage, and kicked Gordon off to boot. He doesn't have to say much because his policies speak for him. Previously, he was using his PR skills to a degree to provide kindling for the Tory flame, and was accused of using them too much, and talking too much. So he shuts up, become more concise, as was asked of him, and hey presto, the argument is reversed.

The issue at hand is how the election has been fought rather dirty. The whole 'upper-class' card that has been played against Cameron has been a quite pathetic piece of work by both the Lib Dems and by Labour. Primarily, because it makes no difference. Are you telling me that you, at age 11, had much of a say in where you went to school? Doubt it somehow. And if you had a chance to get into an Oxbridge University, you wouldn't take it? Ofc you bloody well would. You want to do the best for yourself, and your children. Fuck me if I don't want someone that can apply the same principles to this country.

So, we have Mr. Cameron, who is utterly English, and well brought up. Does this mean he's not fighting for the working class? Hell no. In fact, the middle class, where I am most firmly sat, is going to get the worse deal. But his policies are good. Thus why I want him as PM. We can then take into account Mr. Brown. To quote Jeremy Clarkson, Brown is a 'one-eyed Scottish idiot'. And he bloody well is. He can sod off back to Scotland where he belongs, he can stop running the UK on the grounds of... 'well I wasn't brought up as well as David so I care more about the little people.' Says the person who had the best University education that Scotland could provide. The man is a wreck, his role as Chancellor fucked up public spending in all areas, as well as ruined pensions. To top it all off, who was the last country to leave the recession, even though we had an ex-Chancellor at the helm? Yes, that's right, BRITAIN WAS. And, in closing. Nick Clegg. The only good thing he has provided for me in this election is:

Nick Clegg is frankly, bloody useless. His upbringing resulted in him going to Cambridge too (oh hang on yes, that's right, the same place as Cameron). Do you see him being attacked for this? No ofc not. Even better, he has the wonderful degree of Social Anthropology. Fan-fucking-tastic. Sounds like a winner. And just so's we all know he's nice and British... his wife is not a British citizen... she didn't vote for him because she can't vote... his three sons are called Antonio, Alberto, and Miguel. He wants the Euro back. Call me a Euro-sceptic, but I don't want him anywhere near government.

To sum it up - Cameron is English, to the core. He has policies that will help all people and reverse the absurd public spending trend that Labour got us into. We have Labour, who screwed us up once and I don't trust, to not do it again, and the Lib Dems, run by someone who I would not be surprised if he has to speak Spanish at home.

And a final thought... who had the majority of the public behind them?

Spoiler

THE TORIES

[Ion Cannon!]

I hit a nerve I see.

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As to David Cameron, he's dragged the Tories out of the gutter, onto centre stage, and kicked Gordon off to boot.

The only reason the torys are really getting another chance at government is because of the economic crisis, had it not happened I think labour would still be in power.

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He doesn't have to say much because his policies speak for him.

You must see a very different version of him than I do. When he is asked a question he basically immediately says " I was in X the other day " - A point noticed by Russel Howard and HIGNFY. I won't be totally negative though, I agree with some things he and the torys stand for. I found it rather perplexing in the 3rd debate that GB was arguing the tories would only benefit the rich *-pointing to their reduction of inheritance tax* then simultaneously criticising the torys for removing child tax credits for families over 50k - which seems like a rather good idea for me.

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Previously, he was using his PR skills to a degree to provide kindling for the Tory flame, and was accused of using them too much, and talking too much.

I have never said that, nor has it been my observation. I would ideally like it if politcians were just honest with people. If all of them did it, it wouldn't be political suicide. But i'm well aware this will never happen.

Yes there are undeniably some things which you can blame Labour / GB for, in terms of the recession, but for the most part its just human greed. We built up an unsustainable economic system and it had to crash eventually, i'm actually worried that its going to happen again, what with the banks making huge profits and giving out obscene bonuses once again. Lets not even get into the fact that pretty much every single developed country seems to have huge debts.

However its interesting that although the recession was bad, it still wasn't actually that bad, the predicted GDP% loss and predicted unemployment figures were much more than the actual, and we're now back in healthy growth, OECD estimates 3.1%. If you compare it to other recessions under a tory government, it wasn't nearly as bad. And this was a worldwide financial meltdown, it should have been much worse. Furthermore the rest of the world pretty much adopted the recession busting policies the labour government undertook. If they weren't doing something right, why did the rest of the world mirror it?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/s...icle7111072.ece

I cannot agree more, the torys said bailing out the banks was wrong. Really the government had no choice, and I almost wonder if despite what the torys said they actually fully agreed with labour, but just wanted to be adverserial. Surely they knew that if the banks went bust millions more would be unemployed.

Finally, while I admit labour spending has been out of control thats just because people are so determined to not pay more taxes. The tory spending plans don't look like being much lower either. Many of the tory policies cameron was advocating in his manifesto just sounded like they would cost more money.

[Ion Cannon!]

Brown resigning.

Lib/Con pact basically a certainty. I predict Cameron will be PM and Clegg Deputy PM, also rumours it will be a fixed term deal.

I don't think it will last long, 6-12 months. Followed by another general election, one in which its likely labour support will be back up due to all the unpopular decisions the Lib/Con pact will have to make.

[Brad]

Cameron's been announced as PM.

He's heading towards Downing Street as I type.

[Ion Cannon!]

I just hope Cameron can prove me wrong, if not the government will again be labour next election. Although I wouldn't mind that to be honest.

[Brad]

I'm interested by what electoral reform they agreed to, as that was a major part of the Lib Dem's negotiations.

[Shirou]

Quote

Nick Clegg is frankly, bloody useless. His upbringing resulted in him going to Cambridge too (oh hang on yes, that's right, the same place as Cameron). Do you see him being attacked for this? No ofc not. Even better, he has the wonderful degree of Social Anthropology. Fan-fucking-tastic. Sounds like a winner. And just so's we all know he's nice and British... his wife is not a British citizen... she didn't vote for him because she can't vote... his three sons are called Antonio, Alberto, and Miguel. He wants the Euro back. Call me a Euro-sceptic, but I don't want him anywhere near government.

If I knew no better I'd put you out there with the american conservative anti-Obama faction, your arguments would fit right in. Are you trying to make a point here that his wife isn't British? What point exactly? Fun fact, his mother is dutch, so he isn't fully British either by blood. Would you make a point of that too? If I would do my best I could interpret this listing of his sons names as borderline racist. What the FUCK has all this got to do with Mr Clegg himself. You may be euro-skeptic but I didn't expect such a short sighted post. At least get me some valid arguments, not exclamations of a perceived superiority complex.

Social anthropology may not get him anywhere content wise, but it does mean he knows all about how people interact and likely how to manipulate them. Perfect for a party leader. After all they probably got him up there to raise votes, not to lead a country by himself. Electoral reform will allow his party to get a fair share of seats in the parliament, and then they can put someone up there with some more depth.

Edited by Trivmvirate, 11 May 2010 - 21:17.

[Rich19]

Trivmvirate, on 11 May 2010, 22:10, said:

Quote

Nick Clegg is frankly, bloody useless. His upbringing resulted in him going to Cambridge too (oh hang on yes, that's right, the same place as Cameron). Do you see him being attacked for this? No ofc not. Even better, he has the wonderful degree of Social Anthropology. Fan-fucking-tastic. Sounds like a winner. And just so's we all know he's nice and British... his wife is not a British citizen... she didn't vote for him because she can't vote... his three sons are called Antonio, Alberto, and Miguel. He wants the Euro back. Call me a Euro-sceptic, but I don't want him anywhere near government.

If I knew no better I'd put you out there with the american conservative anti-Obama faction, your arguments would fit right in. Are you trying to make a point here that his wife isn't British? What point exactly? Fun fact, his mother is dutch, so he isn't fully British either by blood. Would you make a point of that too? If I would do my best I could interpret this listing of his sons names as borderline racist. What the FUCK has all this got to do with Mr Clegg himself. You may be euro-skeptic but I didn't expect such a short sighted post. At least get me some valid arguments, not exclamations of a perceived superiority complex.

Agreed. Complaining that one of the three current party leaders isn't "English enough" seems to me to be on a par with some of the BNP's views/comments on foreigners. The man was born in Britain and has lived here all his life, what more do you want? Are you claiming that Cameron is genetically superior because more of his family has been here for longer, or something?

[Ion Cannon!]

Osborne as Chancellor... thats not good, but at least Vince Cable is the Buisiness / Banking Minister, I imagine he will also help Osborne devise fiscal policies as well. The fixed term is 5 years, which is rather a shock.

Edited by Ion Cannon!, 12 May 2010 - 00:20.

[Libains]

Lib Dems have done rather well about their position in government, over 1/3rd of their MPs are going to be getting other jobs in government. Although if this lasts for five years I shall be shocked

Right, now to the comments above me. You're both of you, lambasting me about choosing to point out Nick Clegg's family life. Frankly, I couldn't give a damn who he married, it could be a bloke and I still wouldn't care. But it has enforced my point nicely.

Nobody has pointed out anything regards Nick Clegg's or Gordon Brown's background, family, or anything else that results in being personal. However, the rather filthy slandering tactics that have gone on regards David Cameron have focused on him, not on his policies. He has been accused of being an old-Etonian, and thus out of touch with the public. He has been accused of going to Cambridge, making him more out of touch. He has been accused of milking the death of his child. He has been accused of making sure that his wife got pregnant during an election campaign.

Rich, by going to Cambridge, does that make you think you're out of touch? Because that is what Labour would have you believe. Ironically, Nick Clegg also went to Cambridge, mind. How would anyone here feel if they were accused of milking the death of their child? I'd feel bloody awful, and I'd bet my life you would too.

I guess what I'm pointing out is; don't judge politicians by their personal life if it's innocuous. If they've been raping small children that is obviously a different matter. But fighting dirty on the grounds of an education, and on the death of somebody's child...it's abhorrent. The only party that was the target of campaigns against them was the Conservative party. You've all seen the ruined posters. Labour even tried to paint Cameron as Gene Hunt from Ashes to Ashes (bullying bastard above the law, a womaniser and everything that everyone associated the 80s with). Admittedly, that went badly wrong for them, but my point stands. The election was fought dirty, my post above illustrates the outrage that that sort of thing can cause. As a Conservative, I was, and continue to be, outraged, by the hate campaign that continues against them.

Edited by AJ, 12 May 2010 - 14:30.

[Alias]

This is modern politics. Nobody would win without sensationalised smear campaigns, just be thankful you aren't America where those smear campaigns get funded by multinational corporations.

[Libains]

This is very true. Doesn't stop be from feeling soured by it all, sadly.

[Rich19]

AJ, on 12 May 2010, 15:28, said:

Nobody has pointed out anything regards Nick Clegg's or Gordon Brown's background, family, or anything else that results in being personal. However, the rather filthy slandering tactics that have gone on regards David Cameron have focused on him, not on his policies. He has been accused of being an old-Etonian, and thus out of touch with the public. He has been accused of going to Cambridge, making him more out of touch. He has been accused of milking the death of his child. He has been accused of making sure that his wife got pregnant during an election campaign.

Rich, by going to Cambridge, does that make you think you're out of touch? Because that is what Labour would have you believe. Ironically, Nick Clegg also went to Cambridge, mind. How would anyone here feel if they were accused of milking the death of their child? I'd feel bloody awful, and I'd bet my life you would too.

I guess what I'm pointing out is; don't judge politicians by their personal life if it's innocuous. If they've been raping small children that is obviously a different matter. But fighting dirty on the grounds of an education, and on the death of somebody's child...it's abhorrent. The only party that was the target of campaigns against them was the Conservative party. You've all seen the ruined posters. Labour even tried to paint Cameron as Gene Hunt from Ashes to Ashes (bullying bastard above the law, a womaniser and everything that everyone associated the 80s with). Admittedly, that went badly wrong for them, but my point stands. The election was fought dirty, my post above illustrates the outrage that that sort of thing can cause. As a Conservative, I was, and continue to be, outraged, by the hate campaign that continues against them.

I don't like this kind of dirty smear campaign either, but my objections to the Conservatives aren't based on anything like that.

I can see where the "out of touch" thing comes from, mind you. I woldn't consider myself particularly out of touch (at least, I sincerely hope I'm not), but then I went to a state school. There certainly are people, mostly from public schools, who I'd label out of touch. However I do wonder if it really matters quite as much as people seem to think it does. You don't have to have been stabbed to realise that trying to reduce knife crime is probably a good idea, for example.