80 replies to this topic

[BeefJeRKy]

Major Fuckup, on 7 Jul 2010, 13:56, said:

And yes there is a fire arm in my house with a stack of ammo if you where wondering.

I'm assuming parents have the license then?

[Chyros]

I think just randomly allowing guns is ridiculous, to be bluntly honest.

Personally I like the system we have here in the Netherlands quite well. You're not allowed to own and firearms by default. You can get a license for one if you have actively been in a government-supervised shooting club for over a year, after which you're allowed to possess (but not carry) the smallest of firearms. You need to keep the firearm and ammunition in two separate safes, which are randomly inspected by government people every now and then. Afaik nothing bigger than a pistol is allowed anywhere under any circumstances.

Weapons that look like firearms such as airsoft weapons aren't allowed under any circumstance, even if you have a license, though.

[Major Fuckup]

scopeJim, on 7 Jul 2010, 18:58, said:

Major Fuckup, on 7 Jul 2010, 13:56, said:

And yes there is a fire arm in my house with a stack of ammo if you where wondering.

I'm assuming parents have the license then?

Yup mum owns it and its around 30 years old now as well as the ammo
To bad she lost the bolt for it some how.

Guns are fun, they are only as dangerous as the person holding it which is why i think heavy regulations should apply as well as some sort of mental illness test should be mandatory with gun ownership.

[Alias]

Chyros, on 7 Jul 2010, 21:24, said:

Weapons that look like firearms such as airsoft weapons aren't allowed under any circumstance, even if you have a license, though.

Similar case here. All replica firearms are banned because more often than not they are automatic or are imitating automatic weapons.

It makes sense to me.

[Major Fuckup]

Alias, on 7 Jul 2010, 19:38, said:

Chyros, on 7 Jul 2010, 21:24, said:

Weapons that look like firearms such as airsoft weapons aren't allowed under any circumstance, even if you have a license, though.

Similar case here. All replica firearms are banned because more often than not they are automatic or are imitating automatic weapons.

It makes sense to me.

Over here i can walk into the surplus store and get a handgun replica starting pistol, works,looks and sounds like the real thing.

[GuardianTempest]

At least there's a taser round for the shotgun. (no wires)

I'd hide like Kassad if anyone uses lethal yet non-bullet weapons like crossbows and darts and gets away with it.
He'd either be really smart or rock-bottom desperate.

[Alias]

Major Fuckup, on 7 Jul 2010, 21:48, said:

Alias, on 7 Jul 2010, 19:38, said:

Chyros, on 7 Jul 2010, 21:24, said:

Weapons that look like firearms such as airsoft weapons aren't allowed under any circumstance, even if you have a license, though.

Similar case here. All replica firearms are banned because more often than not they are automatic or are imitating automatic weapons.

It makes sense to me.

Over here i can walk into the surplus store and get a handgun replica starting pistol, works,looks and sounds like the real thing.

I guess it must differ between states, then. I'm pretty sure most of the east coast bans replicas, though.

[Chyros]

Alias, on 7 Jul 2010, 13:38, said:

Chyros, on 7 Jul 2010, 21:24, said:

Weapons that look like firearms such as airsoft weapons aren't allowed under any circumstance, even if you have a license, though.

Similar case here. All replica firearms are banned because more often than not they are automatic or are imitating automatic weapons.

It makes sense to me.

Yeah, to me too, and I think it's for the best even though I would've been a massive Airsoft fan if it has been legal .

[Major Fuckup]

Alias, on 7 Jul 2010, 20:10, said:

Major Fuckup, on 7 Jul 2010, 21:48, said:

Alias, on 7 Jul 2010, 19:38, said:

Chyros, on 7 Jul 2010, 21:24, said:

Weapons that look like firearms such as airsoft weapons aren't allowed under any circumstance, even if you have a license, though.

Similar case here. All replica firearms are banned because more often than not they are automatic or are imitating automatic weapons.

It makes sense to me.

Over here i can walk into the surplus store and get a handgun replica starting pistol, works,looks and sounds like the real thing.

I guess it must differ between states, then. I'm pretty sure most of the east coast bans replicas, though.

I know that you need one hell of a good excuse if a copper pulls you up and finds it in the car or in person for that matter. Don't justify it well enough its a controlled weapon charge.

[Alias]

Nobody interested in debating, anymore?

Thoroughly disappointed. :(

[Chyros]

Alias, on 9 Jul 2010, 11:51, said:

Nobody interested in debating, anymore?

Thoroughly disappointed. :(

Unfortunately there seems to be relative consensus . Which is a pity because as I recall I had some lovely discussions with a gun enthusiast last topic .

[Wanderer]

Luckily we're still allowed to own replicas \o/ There is lot of guns here in Finland, mostly for hunting purposes. You need a permit to have one though

[Golan]

Frankly I feel that replicas shouldn't be allowed or only under limitations similar to real guns. They imply threat where there isn't, making it very easy that a totally harmless situation is misjudged, resulting in injury and possibly death if actions are made due to someone trying to counteract an armed threat.

[Wanderer]

You need to be 18 to buy them here, but you can own them no matter how young you are

[Whitey]

How about this old point?

If everyone is carrying a gun, nobody is going to pull one on somebody else because of fear of retaliation. On the other hand, if guns are illegal, the common mugger can assume that no average person will be carrying. It follows that he or she can proceed to go after whoever he or she wants to with very little fear of the victim being able to defend him or her self.

Mace, pepper spray tasers, and stun guns may be more effective than nothing, but they do not have the same psychological impact. You make it clear that you have a non-lethal weapon, and an assailant may still proceed. You put that fear of death into them and I guarantee they are far less likely to engage.

I won't even touch on airsoft because unless you've played it and enjoyed it, arguing it isn't going to do any good.

[GuardianTempest]

Boidy, on 10 Jul 2010, 4:31, said:

How about this old point?

If everyone is carrying a gun, nobody is going to pull one on somebody else because of fear of retaliation. On the other hand, if guns are illegal, the common mugger can assume that no average person will be carrying. It follows that he or she can proceed to go after whoever he or she wants to with very little fear of the victim being able to defend him or her self.

Mace, pepper spray tasers, and stun guns may be more effective than nothing, but they do not have the same psychological impact. You make it clear that you have a non-lethal weapon, and an assailant may still proceed. You put that fear of death into them and I guarantee they are far less likely to engage.

I won't even touch on airsoft because unless you've played it and enjoyed it, arguing it isn't going to do any good.

That was a more clarified version of my point.
But then...MAD for everyone?

[Wanderer]

There is quite alot of guns in finland when compared to the number of people living here, still not many crimes are made with guns.

[Golan]

Boidy, on 9 Jul 2010, 20:31, said:

If everyone is carrying a gun, nobody is going to pull one on somebody else because of fear of retaliation. On the other hand, if guns are illegal, the common mugger can assume that no average person will be carrying. It follows that he or she can proceed to go after whoever he or she wants to with very little fear of the victim being able to defend him or her self.

Guns aren't ICBMs - if someone is threatening you with one, you won't have enough time to retaliate effectively before being wounded. Also, if a victim is armed, a mugger has to incapacitate or kill the victim or else he is in danger.
If guns are illegal, there is no justification whatsoever to use guns for a mugging. It will only needlessly increase the risk of turning a two year sentence into a life or death sentence. Using a gun to intimidate someone carries the risk of the victim not cooperating, in which case the mugger would have to show he was bluffing which is bad for business or shoot the victim which is bad for general life expectancy.

Boidy, on 9 Jul 2010, 20:31, said:

Mace, pepper spray tasers, and stun guns may be more effective than nothing, but they do not have the same psychological impact. You make it clear that you have a non-lethal weapon, and an assailant may still proceed. You put that fear of death into them and I guarantee they are far less likely to engage.

If you put the fear in someone, they are also far more likely to get rid of the cause of it - you. If you threaten someone with a gun and they proceed (after all, you are in a position of self-defense and could justify a killing shot with an action on impulse) your only choice is to heavily wound them as everything else will leave them with enough time to hurt you. This requires both skill and the intent to kill, the combination of which not many people have. The more effective less-lethal weapons however have excellent "stopping power" even when wielded by an untrained person - if you threaten someone with a Taser gun and he proceeds, the cops can pick up his limp body from a puddle of his own vomit and piss.

Boidy, on 9 Jul 2010, 20:31, said:

I won't even touch on airsoft because unless you've played it and enjoyed it, arguing it isn't going to do any good.

What does it matter if it's fun? Lots of things are and many are rightfully prohibited.

Edited by Golan, 10 July 2010 - 00:21.

[Wanderer]

Airsoft is lot of fun and if you aren't an idiot and go wave your replicas around in a public place it's not gonna cause problems. Here there are sort of airsoft clubs that get people playing with rules that have been settled throughout the country and in areas that they have gotten permits to play. I myself have a few replicas in the house. Whenever I take them with me, they are in a closed bag so they won't cause any policeoperations

[Major Fuckup]

Couldn't say i like airsoft to much as paint balling.Airsoft doesn't give me the same motivation to duck and move my arse that a paint ball does

[deltaepsilon]

Airsoft looks uber kewl though (well, the replicas)

[Zhao]

Meh guns are only gonna cause more harm and when ever it gets in the wrong hands it will just cause more trouble then needed.
I honestly don't see ANY reason to have a gun not to long ago guns didn't exist and you had to fight with your bare hands and the crime rate was a lot lower.

if there were laws restricting guns , and somehow people obtain them , there for the most part only gonna be fighting the other people with guns.
(IE gang wars etc) but i think i would do the community a favor by not having to fucking kill someone to defend your self , thats just retarded.
And back then you didn't have to KILL someone to defend your self. you just had to hurt them a bit.

[Whitey]

"Meh guns are only gonna cause more harm and when ever it gets in the wrong hands it will just cause more trouble then needed."

They'll get into the wrong hands regardless.

"I honestly don't see ANY reason to have a gun not to long ago guns didn't exist and you had to fight with your bare hands and the crime rate was a lot lower."

As was the quality of life.

"if there were laws restricting guns , and somehow people obtain them , there for the most part only gonna be fighting the other people with guns."

Because the people without will merely submit.

"i think i would do the community a favor by not having to fucking kill someone to defend your self , thats just retarded."

Not as retarded as letting them kill you instead.

"And back then you didn't have to KILL someone to defend your self. you just had to hurt them a bit."

I should think a sword can do just as much damage as a gun, just at a shorter range.

[Ion Cannon!]

Whatever you argue as against gun control, what cannot be ignored is the fact gun crime and specifically homicides ,is much higher in the US than say, the UK.

The thing is, because of the vastly different evolutions of the two countries they view guns in very different ways. However I am fairly confident that if the US had similar gun controls to the UK from the start, gun crime there would be much lower. If those gun control laws were enacted in the US now, it would probably cause a spike in gun crime for a short time, but then lower gradually until numbers reached similar figures to the UK.

Its not likely that will happen though, as that would make the government extremely unpopular with millions of idiots, and politics is less about the greater good and more about vote grabbing now sadly.

Edited by Ion Cannon!, 17 July 2010 - 21:33.

[Wizard]

Boidy, on 17 Jul 2010, 21:18, said:

"Meh guns are only gonna cause more harm and when ever it gets in the wrong hands it will just cause more trouble then needed."

They'll get into the wrong hands regardless.

"I honestly don't see ANY reason to have a gun not to long ago guns didn't exist and you had to fight with your bare hands and the crime rate was a lot lower."

As was the quality of life.

"if there were laws restricting guns , and somehow people obtain them , there for the most part only gonna be fighting the other people with guns."

Because the people without will merely submit.

"i think i would do the community a favor by not having to fucking kill someone to defend your self , thats just retarded."

Not as retarded as letting them kill you instead.

"And back then you didn't have to KILL someone to defend your self. you just had to hurt them a bit."

I should think a sword can do just as much damage as a gun, just at a shorter range.

I honestly don't believe for one second you actually think that any of the above stupidly curt and ultimately undebateable responses are either true or helpful for the topic at hand.

For someone that prides himself on his analytical and debating prowess the above is actually pretty poor.