274 replies to this topic

[SquigPie]

While it was mostly just a quick guide to 40K, it did have some new interesting stuff too.

Stoopid spess mehreenz alwayz stoppin' us from lootin' all da bezt bitz :

[Wizard]

"Some new interesting stuff"??

It had about a bajillion new screen shots, action, concept art, a closer look at the Nobz, side characters and what looked like concept art for an orbital bombardment/exterminatus......

One thing that I didn't like was that the guys in the interview were severally lacking in their enthusiasm and articulation of the 40k universe. Very few non-40kers will look at this game, the least they could do is acknowledge this fact and talk to those who will actually play it......

Ironically was talking with Liten about my low expectations for this game earlier in the IRC (hey, you'd all know if you bothered to be there), but this is a welcome shaft of optimism for me. Gameplay looks good.

[Sgt. Nuker]

Nobz may match a Mareen Boy in height, but dat'z kuz 'e ain't standin' up straight. Stoopid 'oomiez.

Funny how they just kept saying there's dark forces at work, and they never came right out and said what those forces are. Good thing we've all been following the development of this game to know it's dem sodding Spikey Boyz.

[SquigPie]

*Pious walks up to the omnious Chaos Terminator*
Pious: "I knew there was more at work here than mere orks! step out of the shadows, foul dog of-
*Chaos Terminator steps out of the shadows, turns out to be Tau Battlesuit*
Pious: "-Tau?"
Tau: :trollface:

[Wizard]

Seriously Squig, you use one more sodding trollface reference on this forum........

[Sgt. Nuker]

Heel Wiz. Down boy. Let our pet have a little fun before you go yanking his collar.

I don't believe dem fishiez iz evil enuf. Dey'z too nyeeve fer dat sort a ting.

Edited by Sgt. Nuker, 07 April 2011 - 21:34.

[Ion Cannon!]

I think this may have made my top 5 this year anticipation wise, though I have to echo wizards comment about the lack of enthusiasm.

[SquigPie]

Wizard, on 7 Apr 2011, 20:38, said:

Seriously Squig, you use one more sodding trollface reference on this forum........

*ducks head*

Sorry Sorry!

But yeah, Chaos is kinda obvious at this point. Relic's shaping into a rather bad pattern about this. Orkz appear, are manipulated by Chaos/Eldar to fight SM/Necrons/Tyranids, SM appears and kill every non-human thing around. With a massive verse like 40K, is it really that hard to do something original for once?

[Wizard]

I must admit I tend to agree with you and am getting a little bit sick of the same tired old opening gambits. Granted that there isn't much more to orkz than looting and fighting, but the inclusion of the Tau or Dark Eldar would be refreshing at this stage. Obviously the old enemy is going to figure in most of what happens in the games, but mix it up a little, please.

[TheDR]

The problem is if they were to do a interesting story the diehard 40k fans would just poke holes in it saying that it doesn't fit in the 40k world. 40k might have an expansive world, but thats part of the problem when trying to design an interesting story that is original and fits into that complicated world.

So instead, they just go with the obvious

Edited by TheDR, 07 April 2011 - 20:42.

[Wizard]

TheDR, on 7 Apr 2011, 21:41, said:

The problem is if they were to do a interesting story the diehard 40k fans would just poke holes in it saying that it doesn't fit in the 40k world. 40k might have an expansive world, but thats part of the problem when trying to design an interesting story that is original and fits into that complicated world.

So instead, they just go with the obvious

The only "cannon" are the codices, even the Black Library does it's publications under licence from GW and have quite a touch of creative freedom. Plus it is almost universally accepted (barring the retards) that 40K is open to interpretation. There may be some inconsistencies, but there are those in literally everything anyway. The DoW II forum has a massive ongoing argument between Gorb (a moderator there, Relic forums, member of several mod teams, and all round amateur guru of 40k) and some tit who thinks the Eldar are shit in the game because the Falcon doesn't have TT level stats.... so not including the fishies or DE for that reason isn't something I think can be used as an excuse. Personally I think they've run out of writers who know anything about anyone else other than SM and orks tbh.

[TheDR]

Or maybe it's because it's easy to sell space marine vs crazy warrior dudes

I'm going to put this down to another thing controlled by a supposed fictional audience and money D:

[General]

Wizard, on 7 Apr 2011, 22:30, said:

I must admit I tend to agree with you and am getting a little bit sick of the same tired old opening gambits. Granted that there isn't much more to orkz than looting and fighting, but the inclusion of the Tau or Dark Eldar would be refreshing at this stage. Obviously the old enemy is going to figure in most of what happens in the games, but mix it up a little, please.

Background of WH40K is so large and inspiring, even I can come up with tens of 'totally' different storyline myself, how come tens of people working on these games only can't come up with something original ! 1 thing : they don't give a damn about this and runs into shortest way to finish the game possible without making fans totally disinterested with the sequel, they just throw us a bone and we always take it

[SquigPie]

I mean, just look at the Dark Heresy books! The amount of original and interesting worlds and conflicts in those RPG's that still fit perfectly into the absurd, wierd and crazy verse that is W40K is massive! Like an Administratum world where a civil war is about to start because they've run out of places to store all the paperwork. Or Dusk, a feral/death world where the borders between the Immaterium and Real Space are very thin. Essentially creating an entire haunted planet!
One of the best things about 40K is that it is an incredibly open verse. It can be Horror, Tragedy, (Black) Comedy, Satire, Action, Thriller, Crime and Drama. You can take almost any other dark setting and have it take place in 40K. Berserk? A Feral world heavily infested with Chaos, The Godhand are Greater Daemons of Chaos. And Guts is (perhaps) one of the lost Primarch. Event Horizon? Mankinds first encounter with the warp (is actually an unofficial prequel amongst fans). Uzumaki? A Warp Rift opens under a small pond in the middle of a peaceful village.
So why do they keep doing the same "Space Marines kill Orkz and Chaos on standard issue Imperial Planet" plot?

Still, the game looks fun, and we still don't know much about it. (Compared to other upcoming games at least.)

Edited by SquigPie, 08 April 2011 - 06:35.

[Wizard]

SquigPie, on 8 Apr 2011, 7:30, said:

So why do they keep doing the same "Space Marines kill Orkz and Chaos on standard issue Imperial Planet" plot?

Standard Template Construct

[Destiny]

Wizard, on 8 Apr 2011, 15:54, said:

SquigPie, on 8 Apr 2011, 7:30, said:

So why do they keep doing the same "Space Marines kill Orkz and Chaos on standard issue Imperial Planet" plot?

Standard Template Construct

That was bad and you should feel bad for it

[SquigPie]

Wizard, on 8 Apr 2011, 9:54, said:

SquigPie, on 8 Apr 2011, 7:30, said:

So why do they keep doing the same "Space Marines kill Orkz and Chaos on standard issue Imperial Planet" plot?

Standard Template Construct

39 thousand years from now, In ancient forgotten ruins deep beneath the hives on Terra, the Adeptus Mechanicus find an STC for something called "Nentendow Wee"

Edited by SquigPie, 08 April 2011 - 11:32.

[Sgt. Nuker]

Wizard, on 8 Apr 2011, 3:54, said:

SquigPie, on 8 Apr 2011, 7:30, said:

So why do they keep doing the same "Space Marines kill Orkz and Chaos on standard issue Imperial Planet" plot?

Standard Template Construct

Beakiez vs. Greenskinz is a pretty proven formula. Look at the box set for Black Reach (Orkz vs. Space Marines). It's something that just works, because it appeals to such a large audience. However, those that are really into 40k would rather see something a bit more advanced, like a Dark Eldar plot against an Imperial world, or an Inquisition hunt for rogue psykers. Heck, I'd love to see Battlefleet Gothic style battles more often. The problem with these proposed ideas is that they appeal to a very select audience. Space Marines vs. Orkz is classic 40k and always will be.

Stoopid Mareen Boyz. Why don't dey pik on summ'n else fer a change?

Edited by Sgt. Nuker, 08 April 2011 - 12:25.

[Wizard]

'part one' said:

At the end of this summer Relic Entertainment will release Warhammer 40K: Space Marine, a game which its publisher, THQ, has had no trouble calling a "Gears of War-killer"

Space Marine takes traditional third-person action gameplay but gives adds a Warhammer 40K spin, making the hulking characters favour close-quarters combat over hiding behind cover and drawing from numerous years worth of lore.

A few weeks ago Relic revealed that players will be going up against the devious Chaos race in the game. We sat down for a chat with Space Marine game director Raphael van Lierop for an update on the project and what the Chaos will bring to the game.

We haven't seen Space Marine for a while, can you update us on your progress with it?

We're coming in on Alpha right now, around three weeks ago we had a hands on event with press where we showed the pre-alpha build of Space Marine, the game is coming along really well, it's looking and playing great, we're in the middle of some heavy playtesting right now so we're bringing in all the resources we have in the studio and down at THQ, including their playtesting lab to handle Space Marine and make sure we're putting out as polished a game as possible.

The game is already looking good and running really well on all platforms so we're in good shape. It's coming down to the point where it's about tuning the game and polishing it to make sure the experience feels tight. That's where we are right now, feeling solid and heading into focusing on polish and tuning.

What major features of the game have you got left to show off?

We haven't spoken much about the multiplayer side of things yet and that is coming down the pipe soon. Obviously right now the focus is on the fact that we have Chaos - that is a big reveal that we haven't spoken about before and is something that we think will really excite the fans of the game.

We know people have been wondering what tricks we have up our sleeves in terms of other enemies in the game, we've already established with our RTS side of 40K that it's about fighting more than one enemy and I think that with Space Marine we've focused on talking about the Orks so far and how they're very useful for us in communicating our gameplay. They create a very cool combat experience because they're a horde and they attack you en masse which lets the player take advantage of the melee and shooting and blend it.

With Chaos we're able to add a new twist to the game for players, giving them an enemy that is much more devious, much more dangerous in small numbers and one that is going to force the player to be think, be a little quicker on their toes and just provide a fresh challenge for them in the game.

Orks and Space Marines are familiar concepts to gamers whereas Chaos might only be familiar to Warhammer fans. Can you explain what their introduction means to Space Marine?

Of course, In terms of the enemy races the Orks are the brutal, animalistic, attacking in hordes type. They attack you with 20 or 30 enemies at a time to try and get in as close as possible, there's a combination of ranged and melee specialists so we can layer all kinds of interesting combinations of enemy types in encounters to keep players interested and add variety. There are specialist units as well such as very heavy, big, almost boss-like units that you have to really give attention to when they walk onto the battlefield because they can be a big threat.

There's also smaller special units such as the Squig which is a big dog that has explosive strapped to it that will run at you and try and get as close as possible before it explodes. In combination we can create an interesting, layers of Ork enemy types in mobs and keep players on their toes as well as provide the opportunity to use all the available tools. There's an amazing sense of forward momentum as you're smashing through the enemies.

With Chaos they're a little more like the dark mirror of the Space Marines, so they're very dangerous in smaller numbers, they have lethal weaponry, they can carry heavy weapons and have tactics that keep you on the move by flushing you out and keep you on your toes by forcing you constantly re-asses the combat zone so that you can maintain your superiority.

They feel very different, the Orks are a horde that attacks in layers and force you to decide how to approach taking them out but with Chaos you have to be a little more tactical, they provide a very different challenge for the player.

The Space Marines aren't pushovers though, how much of a power struggle is it between them and the Chaos compared to the Orks?

With the Orks you're looking at a mixed group of enemy types at any given point so its about evaluating who is providing the greater threat on a moment-to-moment basis. Individually an Ork may not be very threatening to a Space Marine but as a group they can definitely be a threat so you have to always keep your eyes open on who is showing up and what is coming next.

With Chaos the encounters will be more tactical since they have higher-powered range strength, enemy types like the Bloodletter, which is a demonic enemy, has a very powerful melee attack thanks to a giant sword but can also phase through reality. So they don't just run around, they phase from point to point which makes them very hard to target with ranged weapons. Their whole idea is to get as close to you as possible to deal a lot of damage, they fight together in packs of three or four and are kind of like Raptors in that one will distract you while another tries to flank, so they're much more devious in that way.

We've also got an enemy called the Tainted Psyker, which is a magic user that can attack with its own range attack and spawn units up close to you. When you're fighting these guys you never really know exactly where the enemies are going to come from so you have to have situational awareness of what is happening on the battlefield. In combination with the Bloodletters and Psykers the enemies will close the distance and force you into close combat situations.

We've got a broad palette to build interesting encounters with so it does end up feeling more tactical. Obviously all the tools you use in the game up until you meet the Chaos are all completely valid but you might have to think a little differently about how you fight.

How much of the Chaos element of the Warhammer world are you delving into, will be seeing anything from Chaos Gods?

The setup for Space Marine is that there is this Imperial Forge world which is a planet sized factory essentially, the entire thing is covered with factories that are dedicated to creating war machines to keep the human war effort alive. Millions of Orks invade the planet to try and take the Titans, which are the really big building-sized war machines that are designed for devastating entire armies. The Orks want those because they can dismantle them, turn them into their own war machines and use them to invade deeper into the heart of the human Imperium.

With Chaos they've got a much different, darker agenda that involves our hero Captain Titus and things that they're trying to do with him. With Space Marines there is always the fear that they will fall into Chaos, become tainted and change into Chaos Space marines, that is a big thing that we point out in Space Marine. Their motivations are much less one-dimensional than the Orks. They have a bigger plan and you're definitely going to have to contend with some pretty serious evil in Space Marine if you're going to stop them.

Do you spend the entire game on the same planet?

Yes, the game takes place on the Forge World, we have many different locations on the planet that you're moving in between. We felt that it was an ideal setting for our first Space Marine game because it really does deliver on the epic scale in term of architecture and the great works of the human Imperium. You see these giant buildings, transportation hubs, huge rail networks you get to travel on, factories you get to move through, even the waste management under the city, the industrial core.

On the horizon there's a beautiful elevator, the Orbital Spire, which was designed to take whatever machniary and tools of war that were created on the planet up into orbit where they can be taken away by cargo vessels. There's this huge infrastructure, an industry of war that you get to move through in Space Marine. We take you through a 10-12 hour single-player campaign that covers a wide-range of environments and locations on the planet.

How do the Chaos play into environments, obviously they live in an alternative dimension, will we be heading into 'The Warp'?

You won't be travelling into The Warp but you can expect that they will have an impact on the environment. When they arrive it's not simply that they walk out of a shuttle or something like that, there's certainly a big change in the environment and the feel of the game when they arrive.

How much are you looking at expanded Warhammer fiction when exploring the Chaos?

We're always referencing the codex, the novels, we work very closely with Games Workshop to get all the source material, we have a huge number of 40K fans here at Relic, many of which have been working on the Dawn of War series for a number of years so we've got a very strong in-house knowledge which has gone into supporting Space Marine.

Our goal with Space Marine has always been to take the underpinnings of 40K and find a way to express it as an action blockbuster experience. It hasn't really been that hard because all the pieces are already there, we've worked hard to make sure all the details in the environment and fiction are there for fans to see and find. They'll appreciate the attention to detail, the love of the IP that we have is evident in the game but at the same time it isn't a requirement to know anything about 40K to jump into Space Marine. That's the angle we've been exploring with it.

'part two said:

n part one of our interview with Space Marine game director Raphael van Lierop we talked about what stage in development Relic was at with its new Warhammer title, as well as what the newly announced Chaos race would bring to the table.

In the second part we take a look at the wider gaming world and talk about everything from being compared to Gears of War, to Relic's impression of Valve and the iPad....

Gears of War is thought of as your natural competition, do you think you can compete with Gears and what do you personally see as competition?

I think we're very aware that we've stepped into the most competitive genre there is with our game. We believe we've got a very unique experience that we're offering with Space Marine. We've got a combat experience that is very different from anything else out there. We've had a lot of validation playtesting and even early press feedback that the game does truly feel like its own thing. It doesn't feel like a rip-off of another existing game, it really feels like something unique and of its own.

We feel confident we can put a game out there that is polished, entertaining, that has all the aspects of the big blockbuster experience that we think the core gamers are looking for. We can present it also as something fresh, so we feel that we definitely have something that can be competitive with everything else on the market. The combat system in particular we think is quite fresh, it's definitely different from what a lot of third-person action games are doing right now, the blend of melee and shooting is definitely an interesting element of our gameplay and we think it creates a combat experience that people haven't seen before.

It's something that really needs to be played to be understood fully. When you put your hands on the controller and get to play it you see how that blended melee and shooting experience really feels you think, "Okay, this is something very special". I always think its a really great testament to the game when you have people play another game for research or something and feel like something is missing, so games mostly are about shooting and you go in there and think 'where's my melee attack?', I feel like we're giving players a rich toolbox of amazing combat choices they can use as they're playing through the game. I think we're really going to establish a very unique feel from the combat that will help Space Marine stand out.

As a studio how much does being compared to other games stick with you and what effect does it have? Relic's games are often described as 'it's like...', often with the subject being your own games as is the case with Dawn of War and Company of Heroes...

Any time you get compared to an amazing game is always flattering. We have a huge amount of respect for Gears, which is one we often get compared to because - superficially - when you compare screenshots it looks similar. When you play the game and see more footage you notice how they differ, generally speaking though I love Gears, we love Gears and have an enormous amount of respect for the work that Epic does. We think Gears is a wonderful franchise with an amazingly polished experience.

I don't take [Gears comparisons] as a negative at all. The great thing for us is that we can provide a game that the millions of Gears fans can pick up and play very easily because there is enough in the controls of the shooting side that will feel familiar to them. But then we have this whole other side to our combat system that no other game has that creates a unique experience.

So those comparisons are really flattering, Relic as a studio knows we have a lot to prove, we need to prove that we can be competitive in this genre, going on that this is our first action game with this type of combat experience that's also multi-platform, we think we're making a bold statement by putting our foot into this genre and feel that we have something fresh and unique that can be competitive with everything out there.

It doesn't keep us up at night but it certainly sets a high bar for us to meet, we've never been satisfied at Relic with just doing the same thing as everyone else and taking the easy path. We've always wanted to continue to innovate with every game we do and push ourselves forward as well as do something unique in the genres we're working in. With Space Marine it's no different, we really want to do something fresh and unique that we can put the Relic stamp on.

You're traditionally a PC studio, how are you managing multi-platform development?

Right, Relic is traditionally a PC studio, for Space Marine we stocked up on a lot of talent that has experience with multi-platform console games. Certainly the Space Marine team is comprised of a lot of talent that has worked on other 40K games in the RTS real but also a lot of new people over the last few years that have joined the company specifically for Space Marine because they have console development experience. So we've added a lot of new talent over the years specifically to build this game.

In addition it's been a huge technology challenge for us, early on in development, a couple of years ago we took a drop of the Darksiders engine from Vigil, who shared the technology with us so that we would have a foundation to work with, that's how we started the multi-platform engine and on top of that we built a huge amount of proprietary Relic tech. So things like rendering tech in Space Marine is completely unique that has been created by us, all the game's AI systems are Relic's, the effects tech is sort of the fifth generation effects engine, our RTS games are known for having the best looking graphics and effects of the games out there in that genre. We've taken that technology, improved it and adapted it to console to take advantage of the things they can do. That's an example of a new layer of tech that we've built on top of that foundation.

We're also using middleware where it makes sense so we've got Havoc physics and whatnot so we've done our due diligence on the technology, we've got a lot fo smart people working on it and like I said the game is running very well on all platforms right now, it's smooth at 30 frames per second and we're even going to be able to take it above 30 for most of the game. I think it's going to feel really smooth and from a tech standpoint it feels solid.

Do you ever feel like you need to pull your punches to establish a level ground between the platforms?

It hasn't been an issue, I think because we've had a really clear idea of what we're trying to accomplish. We always knew that we wanted to create combat system that emphasised making the player feel powerful so we made a lot of high-level decisions early on about what that would mean for this specific character in this game.

We didn't want to have the traditional 'snap-to' cover system because that didn't feel right for this character, to be hiding behind blocks of stone while enemies are attacking, it felt like what you needed to have was to be able to walk into the middle of combat and be confident and take damage but engage with devastating, impressive attacks. So bull-rushing a bunch of guys, knocking them around, hacking them with the chain-sword, swapping between melee and ranged as you wish in a seamless encounter to systematically hack the enemy into pieces, we knew that is what we wanted to deliver so we built around that.

This includes things like having a really high unit count; our competition usually has fighting against six, seven or maybe eight guys on-screen at any given point but for us we throw thirty guys at you at once. That's a big part of what makes our combat different so we built our technology around being able to do that, we knew we wanted to have hugely epic environments, that would be a big part of delivering this experience so, again, we built technology around that.

We've not had to make compromises over visuals or performance or anything like that because we had a clear idea of what we wanted to create and made sure our technology could support that.

Crytek is in a similar situation as Relic and Cervat Yerli recently said he feels the PC is a generation ahead of consoles, do you agree?

I think that in any console cycle, it's usually near the mid-point that we start to see that the average PC gamers rig can produce performance and visuals that are much better than what we can do on consoles. I think the guys at Crytek are one of the few PC-centric developers that are really pushing that limit right now, it's really amazing what they've been able to do by adapting their technology to console and how good that looks.

I think we're just hitting that point right now where you're going to start to see that the PC-focused developers are going to be able to put out games that start to look much better than what we see on consoles and that's just part of the cycle. I don't think we're limited right now by the quality of visuals at all, I think we've got some amazing looking games out there. I don't think anyone is complaining about the graphics not looking good right now.

Historically that has always been a big focus for gamers, what new bells and whistles are going to be in a game. I think the rate of innovation and advancement in that area has slowed down over the last few years, certainly over this cycle. I don't think you see the kind of leaps and bounds that you did at one point, and I think that visuals, quality of graphics and the innovation of graphics has become much less of a differentiating feature for games than it used to be.

Now I think people are focused what the unique experience they can get in the game is. That's much more relevant and a I think there's much more areas of innovation in technology, game design, development and even artistic direction that can blaze a lot more interesting trails for game development and for players than just that endless arms race for making things look better and better. I think some of the things being done right now with character technology is very interesting, I'm really watching that stuff to see how that evolved because I think that in the future advancements in the quality of characters, the AI driving their behaviour in a way that we can capture, the performance of a real human is going to open a lot of doors for us in terms of creating new experiences and new types of gameplay than what we can create right now.

We've become really good at creating beautiful worlds where you run around and shoot people in the face. I think the future is to do a little bit more than that.

What do you think of LA Noire, then?

I'm interesting in seeing what they do and I'm keeping my eye on it. I think it's really interesting how they're really able to explore a whole new style of gameplay because they have invested so much in creating these believable characters that can communicate things like lies, nervousness and specific behaviours from the way they look. You can start using your natural intuition about people to play the game and understand it, I think that is very compelling because it opens a lot of doors for the future, it makes those types of experiences acceptable to a lot of people who aren't necessarily going to be adrenaline junkies that are always looking for the fastest action experience.

From a gamers and personal perspective I'm really interested in those kinds of things and seeing what the next big leap forward in character technology is. I'm very curious to see, as everyone has, what the next big step for Valve will be with their next Half-Life game or whatever game it is. They've always been the ones ahead of the curve with developing really interesting character AI and I still think Half-Life 2 is the high-bar for how good an AI driven character can be. How old is that game now, five or six year old or something, but I don't think anyone has caught up to that yet.

I think they've got the resources and market share to push that stuff forward, it's interesting when you look at Valve and Rockstar as the publishers of LA Noire and see these successful, big, influential companies taking these risks and pushing things forward. It's great to see and I hope that it does well for them because I think it will open up a lot of opportunities for all of us.

Speaking of Valve, you guys recently dropped GFW in favour of Steam. What was the thinking behind that and will you be sticking to it going forward?

Well, that's more of a Dawn of War team question, I know we're using Steam for Space Marine as well and it's really about getting the game out to as many players as possible and the PC market seems to really be oriented around Steam and that's really the best way for us to give the player the best experience that we can for Space Marine.

It's more about making sure that we can get it out to them in a way that is accessible as possible so they can get into the game as quickly and seamlessly as possible. That's always been a barrier to entry for most PC games and I think Steam does a good job of making it easy to get your hands on a PC game and get into it right away, that's a big part of the reason why Steam makes a lot of sense with us. We really love working with Valve.

Do you think Valve has that market cornered for life or does Microsoft stand a chance with Windows 8? What do they need to do to take back some of that PC gaming market share?

I don't think anybody ever has a market cornered for life. I think certainly Valve is dominating digital distribution on PC right now because they were forward thinking, had the resources and the knowledge as well as the risk taking ability of a private company to go and blaze forward with something unique. It's great to see that they've been rewarded for that and I think PC gamers in general have been rewarded for that and that's wonderful.

I don't think anybody - especially people at Valve - would believe they're going to be in that position forever. I think you always have to assume that someone is going to come around the corner, it's usually out of the blue and almost never the people that you expect, and they can steal that crown from you.

I don't know what Microsoft's plans are and I don't even want to get into that but I think the future is very interesting, digital distribution has started to become a really major force for getting games into people's hands and it is going to be interesting to see how that impacts the future landscape of gaming and certainly what the next generation of consoles will end up looking like.

Apple are a big factor in that too, how do you as developers see platforms such as the iPad and iPhone, is it still a side-platform or do you place it on the same level as consoles and PC?

We're not actively looking at those platforms at Relic but we're definitely interested in any platform that is going to let us deliver games to people who want to play them. I think nobody can ignore the success of iTunes, iPhone, iPod, iPad that are becoming huge platforms for games.

It's a little unclear to me right now who is really making any money of those games other than Apple, so it might feel a little bit like the situation with Nintendo where their first-party stuff does really well but third-party games on the Wii and whatnot never really make it. I kind of see similarities, I haven't studied it, this is just my own impression.

I know a lot of colleagues in the industry left working on big blockbuster, core games so they can work on iPad and iPhone games. It felt like a second goldrush for independent studios, it's a great thing, between the opportunities on those platforms and the other things going on with casual and social games, everything with XBLA, PSN and all that, there certainly isn't a better time to be starting small studios and projects and trying to make a go of it.

But there's an enormous amount of content out there right now, there's a massive amount of games and the biggest issue is how do you differentiate yourself, how do you find your market, talk to people and get them playing your games. If you look at Angry Birds and its 100 million downloads at 99 cents a pop or whatever - they're making crazy money from a very small investment up front, which is amazing but how many stories are there like that? Not many right.

I think we have to keep our eyes on it, the market is definitely shifting right now, there's a lot of opportunity out there and what I find exciting is that I don't think at all that the big core games are going away. I just think that there's a lot of new markets opening up and at the end of the day that's good for everyone because it means more people playing games.

Do you forsee a time where there will be a crossover between the two types of games, for example a time when Space Marine is on the iPad alongside Angry Birds and Farmville or are they stuck with the two distinct platforms types?

It should come down to the player experience. If we could make a great Space Marine game that really captured the heart and soul of what it is to be a Space Marine and build all the same core elements that we're delivering in other big 360, PS3 and PC games right now, if we thought there was a way to communicate that and adapt to different platforms that we'd be open to that.

But I think the truth is that this game is about being a big action blockbuster title and that in turn means certain expectations for visual presentation, the size of the game, quality of presentation elements. You have to spend a lot of money on things like voice actors, having amazing music, visuals and effects that all look incredible, the gameplay feeling super-tight and everything has a huge production.

I really think that's part of why people spend their money on it, they want to have that huge thing. It's like the difference between renting Avatar and going to see it at IMAX, you go because you want to experience it in the theatre with a big screen, have a visceral experience and feel like you had an event and did something exciting. I think that's why people buy big games like this.

I think you would have to water down the experience to fit it on one of those platforms to the point that I'm not sure it would be the same experience anymore. I don't think you'd get the same experience anymore. A good analogy that comes to mind for me is go see a blockbuster movie at the theatre then watch it on one of those little screens on the back of an airplane seat when you're on a flight and tell me that the experience isn't different.

The movies are the same, I'm not talking about 3D vs non-3D, but when you're in a comfortable seat, the lights go down and you feel like you're in a magical world, you're surrendering yourself to the movie. That's the kind of visceral, emotional experience that people paying money to have, it's different from paying for having the comfort being on their own couch in their living room and streaming the movie to a TV or laptop. It's not better or worse, it's just different.

I'm not sure we'd be able to capture the big spectacle of the Space Marine experience on one of those smaller platforms. That doesn't mean that there isn't a lot of opportunity on those platforms, I think you just need to find games that make sense for them, just like with the Wii I think the iPad has unique features and you want to create games that capitalise on those.

It never works well when you create a game for one platform and then shoehorn it into something else with a different control scheme or whatever. I can't think of many games where that has been a success, those are the kinds of things you need to design and take into account from the very beginning.

Part 1
Part 2

[Wizard]

Liten, on 17 Mar 2011, 20:50, said:

It has the little Multiplayer icon, so it's not entirely certain that it won't have Co-Op. All we can do is hope...

No need to hope anymore

Quote

IG: Is there any kind of multiplayer element to Space Marine?

DM: Absolutely. We’re not talking about it but, we do have multiplayer and we do have co-op. Right now we want people focusing on the combat and how the core mechanics of the game work. We will be talking about multiplayer very soon.

Sauce

[Alias]

Quote

Before I describe my 90 minutes with this year's most anticipated title to bear the Warhammer 40,000 license, a disclaimer: I can't tell the difference between a Space Marine Terminator and an Imperial Guardsman*. I've never read a 40K novel in my life, though I'm sure I'd dig them given my love for sci-fi. My only experience with the 40K universe has been through a dozen or so hours in Dawn of War and its sequel. I enjoyed the setting in those games, but my lack of rabid enthusiasm for the franchise probably explains why I wasn't quite as blown away by the early Warhammer 40K: Spare Marine alpha code as many of the previews that went live this week.

It's not that the game doesn't show enough potential to pack a drop pod* to breaking point: built on a refined version of the attractive engine that powered Darksiders, it's capable of packing around twenty detailed enemies on screen at any one time; not quite the hordes seen in last year's hands-off E3 demo, but still enough to keep your Space Marine's bolter* busy. You fill the giant Ork skull-crushing boots of one Captain Titus, perfectly voiced by the bad guy in the recent Sherlock Holmes film, Mark Strong. During my demo I guided Titus through relatively linear levels; a canyon here, a factory there, but all packed full of depressing detail to echo the constant state of war and brutality that Space Marines happily immerse themselves in. While it wasn't on show during my demo, apparently exploration will become key further into the game, suggesting that these linear sections will open up into the open fields we know the Darksiders engine revels in.

Given the depressing landscape and moving man-mountains at its core, it's hard not to draw initial comparisons between this game and Gears of War, but this proves frivolous mere minutes into our demo when I try to activate the cover system: there isn't one. Apparently Space Marines don't know the meaning of the word cover, instead wading into battle with a hybrid melee and ranged combat system. They're so goddamn tough that there isn't even a blocking system in place. The only way to escape the dozen or so Orks making a beeline for my character is to either hack them into a fine red mist using the trusty chainsword, or tap the evade button, sending Titus rolling out of harm's way.

Considering melee plays such a large role in the game, the omission of a combination system is a little perplexing. Instead I'm informed that the game is going for a more accessible dynamic combination system, where the player doesn't need to learn new moves as they progress. Simply mash the high and low melee buttons and the game will pull off cool looking moves, which were sadly lacking in the alpha build. There is a rather neat execution move that chops the naughty Orkies into oblivion, but it's very overpowered during the playtest, and has been earmarked for tuning. When I wasn't dicing up the oncoming hordes, I picked them off from their sniping positions using a couple of ranged weapons, where my slow-mo Fury meter made headshots a breeze.

By the end of my playtest, I was left with two very different impressions. Firstly, the visuals - and the atmosphere created by them - are going to make the 40K model-painters froth at the mouth with anticipation. This is their favourite tabletop universe come to life before their very eyes, with all of the details that require a toothpick to paint now blown up to life-size dimensions.

Secondly, the game is catering to the extremely casual gamer with its lack of combos or cover system. Combat seems to be a case of wading into battle and mashing the melee buttons, with no tactics or skill necessary to beat the various enemy types. There's none of the RPG-style upgrade system that made us so attached to our characters in DoW. Thankfully, there's still a chance that these systems will be introduced before release, as the code I saw was alpha and the developers seemed very interested in journalist feedback.

Knowing Relic's heritage, there's a very good chance they'll end up making a product that quashes all of my concerns. Whether they can do this before the August release window is another matter - I wouldn't be surprised if an extra six months are spent turning this into another Relic masterpiece, one that satiates both gamers and Warhammer veterans alike.

Do you think Relic is building a game for the casuals, or will they pull out all the stops to deliver another classic?

http://games.on.net/article/12344/Hands-on...0K_Space_Marine

[General]

I just hope they are working to bring another classic for us, need a cool story though...

[Wizard]

Box Art

[SquigPie]

HOT DAMN!

Not very imaginative, but awesome nontheless.

EDIT: IDIOCY THY NAME IS DEAN TAKAHASHI!

Edited by SquigPie, 25 May 2011 - 17:44.

[Soul]

SquigPie, on 25 May 2011, 7:37, said:

IDIOCY THY NAME IS DEAN TAKAHASHI!

Not sure if troll or just very stupid.