170 replies to this topic

[Chyros]

 AJ, on 16 Oct 2010, 3:42, said:

 Grand Kapitan Camo, on 16 Oct 2010, 2:15, said:

Actually, table salt is sodium merged with chlorine, making it stable. You do NOT want to put pure sodium on your french fries, especially if there greasy...

Almost complete fail in this statement. Chyros never said the sodium wasn't stable, he was just pointing out that the element is the same in both the pure metal, and the common table salt. the bonding with chlorine does produce the stability, however.

That's good, but it's actually the other way around - sodium (Na) is unstable versus oxidants like water, but sodium cation (Na⁺) is perfectly stable - however not because it bonds with Cl^-. This is easily visible since Na⁺ forms quite exothermically if you dissolve Na in water, ethanol, any simple alcohol, really. The fact this cation is stable allows it to form ionic bonds with for example Cl^- to form NaCl.

The reason Na⁺ is stable and Na isn't, is because the electron configuration of Na is 1s²2s²2p⁶3s¹ - an oxidant will allow it to shed its single valence electron (3s¹) and form 1s²2s²2p⁶ which is the electron configuration of neon, a noble gas. Noble gases have closed-shell configurations (valence electrons occupy all orbitals fully) and are energetically very stable - because of this, they are almost completely inert (and so is Na⁺). The reason chlorine is so reactive is for the exact same but opposite reason - it likes to form Cl^- because this will change its configuration from 1s²2s²2p⁶3s²3p⁵ to 1s²2s²2p⁶3s²3p⁶ (absorbing an electron will allow it to fill up its single valence orbital hole) and form the electron configuration of argon which is also a noble gas. Such ionically stable species will readily combine to form NaCl.

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And finally, putting pure sodium on greasy chips wouldn't be that much of a big deal - it reacts violently with water, and greasy chips are coated in oil, which is exactly what is used to keep sodium from becoming volatile (oil or kerosene). Sodium will react with water in the palm of your hand, however, but not to a degree by which you're likely to get more than slightly scalded - the entire metal needs to be contained in a reasonably large volumme of water to prove volatile on the levels that people expect of it.

That's indeed very true, but I think the saliva in your mouth will qualify for that . You wouldn't enjoy the sensation in your mouth . Grease on the chips wouldn't do much though.

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Also, a quick point to note regards sodium form a biologist's perspective, you may want to check out this: http://en.wikipedia....%2B/K%2B-ATPase - without this pump nerves would not function and we'd all be well and truly dead. Never underestimate the importance of an element, just because it looks nasty on the surface

Yes, very true. In fact, many powerful (nerve) toxins work by blocking sodium channels or pumps and this will kill you very quickly (black mamba, fugu, cone snails, blue-ringed octopus, poison dart frogs, Sydney funnel-web spiders, box jellyfish etc. all use venom that blocks or modifies these pumps or channels).

[Destiny]

Chyros...why are there so many numbers in your post...?

[Chyros]

 Destiny, on 16 Oct 2010, 11:39, said:

Chyros...why are there so many numbers in your post...?

I should elaborate on that.

Atoms are made up from three types of particles: protons, which are positively charged, electrons which are negatively charged, and neutrons, which are not charged.

The protons and neutrons clot together in the atom's core, bound together by the so-called "strong nuclear force". They form a positively charged core or particles. The amount of protons in the core determines what element an atom is (e.g. an atom with 11 protons is a sodium atom) and the amount of neutrons determines what isotope it is (not important for now).

Orbiting this core is a "cloud" of electrons which is negatively charged, counteracting the positive charge of the protons. The ionic interaction between the positive and negative charges keeps the electrons in orbit, and part of the atom. The amount of electrons determines the charge - if there are more electrons than protons, it is negatively charged, if there are fewer, it's positively charged, and if there are as many, it's uncharged.

The electrons occupy certain "orbits" which can be described by "orbitals" which is the electron probability density integrated over all space - i.e. where the electrons are most likely to be. Every orbital can accomodate a certain number of electrons and have a certain energy level. The most low-energy orbitals will always be filled first. s orbitals can hold two electrons, p orbitals six, d orbitals ten and f orbitals fourteen etc. They have shapes like this:



The index before the letter, e.g. 1 in "1s", tells how deep the orbital is. The 1s orbital is lower in energy ("deeper") than 2s, than 3s etc. the superscript number after it shows how many electrons are in it - 1s² means the 1s orbital holds two electrons (which is its maximum, it is full). The full set of orbital numbers gives you the atom's electron configuration - a useful if basic tool in determining some properties of elements.

[Destiny]

I know and understand the stuff atoms and electrons and stuff ...



...until

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The index before the letter, e.g. 1 in "1s", tells how deep the orbital is. The 1s orbital is lower in energy ("deeper") than 2s, than 3s etc. the superscript number after it shows how many electrons are in it - 1s2 means the 1s orbital holds two electrons (which is its maximum, it is full). The full set of orbital numbers gives you the atom's electron configuration - a useful if basic tool in determining some properties of elements.

Numbers...are...the death of me...but 'tis nice to know this stuff...easy to comprehend.






Kuso typo

Edited by Destiny, 16 October 2010 - 10:17.

[Chyros]

 Destiny, on 16 Oct 2010, 12:16, said:

I know and understand the stuff atoms and electrons and stuff ...



...until

Quote

The index before the letter, e.g. 1 in "1s", tells how deep the orbital is. The 1s orbital is lower in energy ("deeper") than 2s, than 3s etc. the superscript number after it shows how many electrons are in it - 1s2 means the 1s orbital holds two electrons (which is its maximum, it is full). The full set of orbital numbers gives you the atom's electron configuration - a useful if basic tool in determining some properties of elements.

Numbers...are...the death of me...but 'tis nice to know this stuff...easy to comprehend.

This picture might explain it more easily.



Everything in the galaxy "likes" to have as little energy as possible, because higher-energy states need energy to maintain them. Any perturbation in a high-energy the system will send it into a lower-energy state, and since there is usually not enough energy available to get it back up again, it cannot go back up. This will make the system automatically drop into a (local) minimum of energy.

This is why the lowest-energy orbitals are filled up first, i.e. first 1s, then 2s, then 2p, then 3s etc.

[Destiny]

Aha...I see, I see. So you deal with high-energy physics too

[Chyros]

Of course I deal in physics as well, if not as much as chemistry. I've had subjects on physical chemistry, quantum mechanics, waves, scattering, solids and surfaces, electricity and conduction, kinetics, diffusion, etc. Physics and chemistry are kind of inseparable, they're two sides of the same coin really.

[Destiny]

So when someone mentions 'ion', do you think of it in chemical or the electrically-charged particle way?

[Chyros]

 Destiny, on 16 Oct 2010, 13:52, said:

So when someone mentions 'ion', do you think of it in chemical or the electrically-charged particle way?

They are the same. One doesn't exclude the other.

Ions are more of a chem thing than a phys thing though.

[BeefJeRKy]

The sodium-potassium pump used in cell communication is a very curious reaction I'll admit. Sometimes certain biochemical reactions are truly fascinating. However the chemical pathways are ridiculously tedious :|

[Chyros]

Forgot to post the alkali metal pics (censored the locations - don't want anyone funny trying to get their hands on this stuff):

Lithium



Sodium



Potassium



I'm not sure we have rubidium and/or caesium, though I think it's unlikely - they're not that cheap; 1 gram of caesium costs between 65 and 90 euros and rubidium costs 110 a gram - and I can't think of a particularly useful synthetic application for them .

[BeefJeRKy]

Is it just me or does the lithium look like wood?

[Chyros]

It comes in greyish rods a bit over a centimetre in diameter. I didn't find a correlation with wood myself .

[BeefJeRKy]

On the sides, they have what appear to be ribs and the flat tops have what appear to be pores. I'm sure up close I would lose the impression of wood, but in that pic it gives me that wooden feel.

[Destiny]

I thought they looked like stone/rock cigarettes... The ones we had were all small 'pebbles'/balls.

[Alias]

Mineralöl.

[Chyros]

 Destiny, on 22 Oct 2010, 1:11, said:

I thought they looked like stone/rock cigarettes... The ones we had were all small 'pebbles'/balls.

Those are the high school edition . We work slightly less complicated than that .

 Alias, on 22 Oct 2010, 1:25, said:

Mineralöl.

Yeah, Germans, no?

[Rai]

I wish your still very active by next year around here, since Chemistry classes will happen by then, but now it's all about Biology.

[Chyros]

 Rai, on 22 Oct 2010, 14:18, said:

I wish your still very active by next year around here, since Chemistry classes will happen by then, but now it's all about Biology.

Heh, biology - I know it's hard to not die of boredom during it, but try your best - the rewards when you finally will have chemistry will be great .

[Ghostrider]

This is an awesome thread you've got here Chyros, very interesting and informative.

 Chyros, on 22 Oct 2010, 16:46, said:

 Rai, on 22 Oct 2010, 14:18, said:

I wish your still very active by next year around here, since Chemistry classes will happen by then, but now it's all about Biology.

Heh, biology - I know it's hard to not die of boredom during it, but try your best - the rewards when you finally will have chemistry will be great .

I find the anatomy part of biology to fascinating, since it applies so much to ourselves. Like how beer really affects the body, for example, or how squirrels die from beer because they lack the enzyme to metabolize it.

[BeefJeRKy]

Biology needs a really good teacher to keep you interested because the boredom sets in quickly

[Chyros]

 Ghostrider, on 25 Oct 2010, 22:05, said:

This is an awesome thread you've got here Chyros, very interesting and informative.

 Chyros, on 22 Oct 2010, 16:46, said:

 Rai, on 22 Oct 2010, 14:18, said:

I wish your still very active by next year around here, since Chemistry classes will happen by then, but now it's all about Biology.

Heh, biology - I know it's hard to not die of boredom during it, but try your best - the rewards when you finally will have chemistry will be great .

I find the anatomy part of biology to fascinating, since it applies so much to ourselves. Like how beer really affects the body, for example, or how squirrels die from beer because they lack the enzyme to metabolize it.

If they explain why that's the case, you're talking chemistry . Biology is much more undefined, and the reason beer affects stuff is chemical in origin.

[Ion Cannon!]

 scope, on 25 Oct 2010, 21:11, said:

Biology needs a really good teacher to keep you interested because the boredom sets in quickly

I always found human biology interesting, still do. Plant biology on the other hand, boring as fuck.

[Brad]

Oi, I won't have this competitive riff raff between sciences.
Much of science melds together during the more detailed areas anyway.

[BeefJeRKy]

 Ion Cannon!, on 26 Oct 2010, 19:12, said:

 scope, on 25 Oct 2010, 21:11, said:

Biology needs a really good teacher to keep you interested because the boredom sets in quickly

I always found human biology interesting, still do. Plant biology on the other hand, boring as fuck.

Tell me about it. I have a quiz in it tomorrow