13 replies to this topic

[Chyros]

WikiLeaks has just published the next batch of dossiers on the war in Iraq. The dossiers were written by American military personnel.

Among others, it states that the total amount of casualties of war so far are 109032; 66081 civilians, 23984 insurgents, 15196 Iraqi military and police personnel, and 3771 coalition troops. That's 62% civilian casualties. The dossiers also make mention of murder, abuse, rape and torture of prisoners, cover-ups and involvement of Blackwater mercenaries (more murder).

The US authorities state that the release of the dossiers puts coalition troops' and informers' lives at risk despite all names and places and some other stuff being crossed out, and that the dossiers do not give a complete picture of the situations, and demands WikiLeaks to remove the documents.



Discuss.

[SquigPie]

Not surprised really, War makes monsters of men.

[Wizard]

 Chyros, on 23 Oct 2010, 11:49, said:

The US authorities state that the release of the dossiers puts coalition troops' and informers' lives at risk

No, the release of these dossiers puts the US authorities at risk of being kicked up the arse for doing a thoroughly bad job and killing far more people than they should have been (which is putting it mildly tbh). Being in Iraq dressed in an American soldiers uniform puts American Soldiers lives at risk. Being an informant puts your life at risk. Wikileaks posting 400,000 pages of mostly blacked out lines doesn't do anyone any physical harm at all. It just makes the US military look really, really bad.

[Chyros]

 Wizard, on 24 Oct 2010, 0:03, said:

 Chyros, on 23 Oct 2010, 11:49, said:

The US authorities state that the release of the dossiers puts coalition troops' and informers' lives at risk

No, the release of these dossiers puts the US authorities at risk of being kicked up the arse for doing a thoroughly bad job and killing far more people than they should have been (which is putting it mildly tbh). Being in Iraq dressed in an American soldiers uniform puts American Soldiers lives at risk. Being an informant puts your life at risk. Wikileaks posting 400,000 pages of mostly blacked out lines doesn't do anyone any physical harm at all. It just makes the US military look really, really bad.

I agree on that, it just seems like a good excuse to me. The fact it makes the US government look bad doesn't mean a thing though, even if it were leaked that they were clubbing baby seals so to speak it wouldn't have any internal repercussions of any kind at all.

Still, I have to say I approve of WikiLeaks big time. The guy behind it can only be said to have brass balls, and though it won't do anything in the US itself I think it's good that there's whistleblowers like this. Puts international politics a lot more into perspective, I'd say.

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Not surprised really, War makes monsters of men.

True, true - I doubt you could find many wars where stuff like this doesn't happen.

Edited by Chyros, 23 October 2010 - 23:25.

[BeefJeRKy]

I believe someone once linked me to something similar related to Israel but I don't have the link.

[SquigPie]

How exactly does WikiLeaks get it's intel? Are they hackers or do they get their info from witnesses and insiders?

[CJ]

WikiLeaks is affiliated to ThePirateBay (Judging by how this former website always defends them and advertises their site), so I'd guess they must be pirating some of info at least...

[Hobbesy]

 Chyros, on 23 Oct 2010, 4:49, said:

Among others, it states that the total amount of casualties of war so far are 109032; 66081 civilians, 23984 insurgents, 15196 Iraqi military and police personnel, and 3771 coalition troops. That's 62% civilian casualties.

It also states that most civilian casualties were caused by other Iraqis and the Iraqi Security Forces than by Coalition Forces. The Wikileaks leak of the documents are also more censored than the declassified Pentagon versions. However, there's more done to minimize the risk to Iraqis who are in the documents than the declassified versions.

Edited by Hobbesy, 24 October 2010 - 16:42.

[SquigPie]

 CJ, on 24 Oct 2010, 18:26, said:

WikiLeaks is affiliated to ThePirateBay (Judging by how this former website always defends them and advertises their site), so I'd guess they must be pirating some of info at least...

Wait, if they pirate it, does that mean that you can go into stores and buy intel like this?

Edited by SquigPie, 24 October 2010 - 16:49.

[CJ]

Not in stores, but you can probably find a few hackers who can access this kind of information, yeah...

[Alias]

Most of it is leaked from insiders. In these sorts of cases, likely to be army personnel.

[Wizard]

 CJ, on 24 Oct 2010, 17:50, said:

Not in stores, but you can probably find a few hackers who can access this kind of information, yeah...

IIRC it was a hacker that grassed up the insider who is currently under arrest for the leak of the Apache attack on the Reuters reporter + civilians. You have to laugh at the irony of a hacker thinking that it wasn't right to let that sort of thing into the public domain.....

Edited by Wizard, 24 October 2010 - 17:02.

[Chyros]

 SquigPie, on 24 Oct 2010, 18:19, said:

How exactly does WikiLeaks get it's intel? Are they hackers or do they get their info from witnesses and insiders?

 CJ, on 24 Oct 2010, 18:26, said:

WikiLeaks is affiliated to ThePirateBay (Judging by how this former website always defends them and advertises their site), so I'd guess they must be pirating some of info at least...

No, it's just whistleblowers inside the military that leak the info.

 Hobbesy, on 24 Oct 2010, 18:41, said:

 Chyros, on 23 Oct 2010, 4:49, said:

Among others, it states that the total amount of casualties of war so far are 109032; 66081 civilians, 23984 insurgents, 15196 Iraqi military and police personnel, and 3771 coalition troops. That's 62% civilian casualties.

It also states that most civilian casualties were caused by other Iraqis and the Iraqi Security Forces than by Coalition Forces.

None of which would have happened though, had the Coalition forces not been there.

Quote

The Wikileaks leak of the documents are also more censored than the declassified Pentagon versions. However, there's more done to minimize the risk to Iraqis who are in the documents than the declassified versions.

Yeah, exactly - it would be quite condemnable if they actually released documents which would risk lives.

[CJ]

 Chyros, on 24 Oct 2010, 21:39, said:

 Hobbesy, on 24 Oct 2010, 18:41, said:

 Chyros, on 23 Oct 2010, 4:49, said:

Among others, it states that the total amount of casualties of war so far are 109032; 66081 civilians, 23984 insurgents, 15196 Iraqi military and police personnel, and 3771 coalition troops. That's 62% civilian casualties.

It also states that most civilian casualties were caused by other Iraqis and the Iraqi Security Forces than by Coalition Forces.

None of which would have happened though, had the Coalition forces not been there.

Actually, from what I've read before you posted this link, it looked more like that the Coalition Forces covered some of the abuses that were committed before the war...