37 replies to this topic

[R3ven]

Rich19, on 5 Dec 2010, 5:45, said:

R3ven, on 5 Dec 2010, 4:56, said:

Rich19, on 4 Dec 2010, 19:09, said:

(I doubt somewhere like Moddb would allow you to display nazi imagery such as the swastika on their site)

http://www.moddb.com...s/cc-nazi-alert

I beg to differ.

Well, I am surprised at that. I've never heard of that mod though (it looks like a classic case of "doomed before starting" too), and I wonder how long it took you to find it. It seems to me that the WW2 mods with the biggest following have all chosen to replace the swastika with other symbols -
Forgotten hope
Resistance and Liberation
etc...
The only ones with swastikas are unknown enough to "slip under the radar" as it were.

Also, is that the only part of my post you disagree with?

5 minutes, considering I knew about the mod over a year ago.

And yeah, that's about it.

Sorry about derailing the thread Zla_Khata.

[Zla_Khata]

To my opinion people can be pissed of by ideas, slogans, statements... but HOLY COW! With a geometric symbol! O_o
The present mod imaginery looks most democratic as for me:
- people indifferent to Nazis will have no problem with swastika-clad tanks
- people thinking that Nazis are "bad-ass" will have fun commanding swastika-clad tanks
and finally:
- people hating Nazis will have fun burning swastika-clad tanks.

This mod doesn't spread any Nazi ideology, any Nazi propaganda and so on. All we have is a geometric symbol and an agreement, that by the storyline the EU is Nazi organisation. That's all "nazi" about the mod! The mod doesn't states in any way "go & kill somebody on race prejudices". You don't count Red Alert series as a communist propaganda, don't you?

Quote

But somehow, an entire world war fought within living memory against a genocidal regime co-opted the swastika and turned it into a symbol of evil and hatred.

And.. times more people have been killed by slogans for "communism", "freedom", "democracy" and other deep shit. Why won't we also forbid everywhere red stars and flags of America?

Besides, in Asia swastika is still known as a symbol of peace and luck.

As for the people who care about not the facts, but for mere symbols, we'll make a special "no-scary-swastika-patch" which will replace it with something more political correct and non-scary:

Quote

Well, I am surprised at that. I've never heard of that mod though (it looks like a classic case of "doomed before starting" too), and I wonder how long it took you to find it. It seems to me that the WW2 mods with the biggest following have all chosen to replace the swastika with other symbols -
Forgotten hope
Resistance and Liberation
etc...

Everytime I see a WW2 game with real German flag replaced with some crap, I think "my god, and they say that they live in a FREE WORLD?". No, I'm not a Nazi in any way. I'm against any political propaganda at all. But distortion of simple objective reality (replacing the German flag with childish substitutions) looks as lame as limiting an artirt's (not a political chimp) freedom. If we want to depict an evil Nazi faction, what symbol will do better? Like the one described above? If somebody suggests a plausible replacement - I promise not to hesitate to "un-swastika" the mod, but right now I haven't heard any alternatives.
Guys, if the mod was about Communist I would select a Hammer and Sickle (or a Red star) - and nobody would mind, if the mod was about Turks - I would select a crescent and again nobody would mind. Some sides could be reasonably depicted with only one correct symbol.

And BTW.
When I was applying my mod on modbb - http://www.moddb.com...s/dark-summer96
There was a swastika in the gallery from the very start. Yet the admins didn't say a word about it and authorized the mod's profile.
My last blow: one of the moddb members who tracked my mod is from Israel. This makes clear that people see a work of fiction only as a work of fiction - just the way as it should be.

Quote

Damn, what have I started. Sorry Zla_Khata, it wasn't my intention to derail your mod thread. My only intention was to point out that not everyone would appreciate a Swastika, for whatever reason they may have. It's up to you to decide if you'll still use it or not.

Nothing to worry about, better to find the problem now than later I'm sure that after a while we'll came to all-acceptable agreement. Right now I see one way out: to make a poll and to decide which % of people can't tolerate a certain geometric symbol.




As for back to business, today's update is:



I have designed a new render style and want to ask if it became better
Also, before you say that the model has too few details - I will answer that it's real-life based (on CV-90 AMOS). There's an idea of retaining the turret but replacing the platform with a fictional one. Any suggestions?

And as alway, everybody are welcome on the moddb page

Quote

anyways good luck on your mod. what system will it be used on though , starcraft 2 or C&C3?

C&C3 is a priority, 90% that a while later SC2 will be adapted too (the length of the "while" depends on how quick I'll find coders)

Edited by Zla_Khata, 05 December 2010 - 20:36.

[Gen.Kenobi]

Nice model bro

I just think the front of the tank is a bit too plain and empty.

Edited by Gen.Kenobi, 05 December 2010 - 20:22.

[Camille]

very nice models

to elaborate on the high-polyness of the models coupled with ZH though: when you have models this high-poly you'll want to have a skin that does the model justice with good detail and a high enough resolution. while ZH's SAGE can handle quite a large amount of polygons on screen it's got a much tougher job with displaying skins. the skins eat up SAGE's relatively small memory allocation (that's how i read it) and cause it to overflow it in no time, resulting in lag and bad framerates. you CAN put immensely detailed models in ZH sage but it'll be at the cost of skin detail either way.

anyhow, i'd recommend you go with c&c3 which will open up a way larger margin of detail in every way possible (you probably already knew that anyway)

[Zeke]

lol @ non scary patch

the new render looks great!

[Hobbesy]

If you people want to argue how evil the swastika is, take it to the political corner or something. This topic is in Modding, not Let's Argue About Buddhist Symbols.

Edited by Hobbesy, 06 December 2010 - 01:25.

[Zla_Khata]

Despite the war in Afghanistan and the evilness of swastika, yet we managed to make a little update!











The AMOS mortar you've seen before is no longer in the mod and is replaced by the Fennek-based artillery piece. The Fennek itself (as a unit) is replaced by Panther LMV and the modd profile is updated as well. Story information about Russia added, the fuss with the rest of Europe (and USA) is to be revealed.

Edited by Zla_Khata, 12 December 2010 - 18:33.

[Gen.Kenobi]

Amazing models dude!

Keep it up! This mod will rock! And i'm really loving the motto's on each render

Edited by Gen.Kenobi, 13 December 2010 - 14:59.

[Libains]

It does all look very impressive indeed, although you really need somebody with English as their first language to write you mottos/descriptions on your lore. Quick question, is there any coding of these going on behind the scenes yet or is it still just in a preliminary modelling phase?

[Umbrella Secrets]

This looks really awesome!

Edited by Umbrella Secrets, 13 December 2010 - 15:45.

[Madin]

The collection of models are indeed impressive.
Until I see something actually placed inside C&C3, that is all this thread will be.

[Henford]

I like it - and the Swastika has to stay.

History is not nice, and it is the brutal symbolism that can add a little bit extra to the feel of the mod.

Like someone said, we all have no problems putting hammer and sickles in our mods do we? I fail to see the difference between one and the other.

[Zla_Khata]

Quote

Like someone said, we all have no problems putting hammer and sickles in our mods do we? I fail to see the difference between one and the other.

Straight to the point, and what I said also - these are just works of fiction, people shouldn't take them too close to heart. If we would apply the same swastika-logic, we should ban any mod depicting war, because war killed billions of folk, to ban all WW2-mods, because they're in some or other way depicting Nazi Germany and so on.

Quote

Until I see something actually placed inside C&C3, that is all this thread will be.

Quote

Quick question, is there any coding of these going on behind the scenes yet or is it still just in a preliminary modelling phase?

Cool questions, but to reveal you the strategic information - right now behind the scenes is going a preliminary texturing phase You can't pretend that your mod is cool without having skinned models first, right?

The other concern is the atmosphere of the mod.
Some of you have noticed, and some of you may notice now, that I've slapped up a kind of userbar for the mod. This is how our mod could look like - dark-doom-death-apocalyptic style The story will be changed appropriately to include some large anthropogenic catastrophe or war-consequence (then the Cold War won't be ended easily, but after a short, yet deadly war in Central Europe). The Europe will be a dark place literally with many dead empty cities, radioactive lakes and mutated forests.

An uncomplete map of the "apocalyptic" scenario.



By this scenario the sides will fight first for the "Dead zone" after radiation level in it becomes small enough.

Is the (yet only suggested) change good?

Edited by Zla_Khata, 15 December 2010 - 05:30.