24 replies to this topic

[Areze]

I was thinking about building a new computer. My mom (who's paying for it) said she has a budget of around US$500 (£320) (upper limit, we're quite poor atm, medical bills & whatnot). I'd like to get the best I can get for as cheap as I can get. The heaviest I want to concentrate on are processor and graphics strength, and want to get Windows 7.


I'm looking through Newegg, and as this is the first time I'm doing this, I'm a little overwhelmed. :( .

Here was the two things I was looking at so far:

- Graphics Card

- Processer #1
- Processor #2

Cases I'm less sure about. I want to got cheap, and I couldn't give a shit less about glowing bits or whatnot. Just a plain solid black case. My parents are bent on recycling one of the cases from the three old comps. Motherboards I'm really lost. That I need help on the most. I'd prefer a monitor, but I can't go over US$120 for that. Worse comes to worse, the humongous dinosaur I have works just fine. I assume that Motherboard + Graphics + Processor are the biggest price gougers. I can bilk a gig of memory out of my current PC with two 500 Mg sticks, so I might be able to save there if the motherboard hs a bunch of extra slots for that.

Also, we were going to look at local computer stores first, to see if we can get it without fussing with shipping and handling and whatnot.

tldr: I'm a noob and need help.


Also, I've been looking at these barebones/minicomps. Are these good?


EDIT:
I've been looking at this. Is it any good? I just hope it's in stock by February...

Edited by Areze, 02 January 2011 - 11:09.

[BeefJeRKy]

That Radeon 5450 is fucking weaksauce. I would suggest you look at the Radeon 6850 though that GTX 460 is pretty good too.

The AMD CPU I would highly recommend though if you want Intel, this is a great alternative.

For motherboards, you have to match the CPU socket to the CPU. In this case, the Core i3/i5 is an LGA 1156 while the AMD is an AM3.
My pick for Intel and AMD.
The Intel board might be open box but I wouldn't worry about that. It isn't used. Over that get a pair of 1GB sticks as well.

So if you go the Intel route, that will cost you about $480 while the AMD route should save you about $40. If you opt for the i3 processor that's even more savings. That part should be up to you I guess.

Edited by Scope, 02 January 2011 - 12:18.

[Areze]

So, this for graphics (it'll hit hard, though...), this for processor, motherboard, the RAM. Is this the biggest stuff? I might be able to get a job and pad the budget for the comp, but I would still want to keep all this really low. I don't need a DVD drive ass I bought one for my old one and I can just take it out (I'm pretty sure it'll work.It works on this and it's just a drive. Nothing fancy.) If this is from scratch then I'll probably need a case. This? Might need a fan, too.

Urgh. This is gonna be steep. I was poking about at CyberpowerPC, and I managed to get what I think will work for now.

INFODUMP

Cyberpower Rig $710 (too damn high) said:

Case: Thermaltake V3 Black Mid-Tower Case
Extra Case Fan Upgrade: Default case fans
CPU: AMD Athlon™II X2 260 Dual-Core CPU w/ HyperTransport Technology
Cooling Fan: AMD ATHLON64 CERTIFIED CPU FAN & HEATSINK
Motherboard: Asus M4N68T-M V2 AM3 DDR3 NVIDIA Geforce 7025/nForce 630a Chipset mATX w/ Onboard Graphics and Core Unlocker, 7.1 HD Audio, GbLAN, USB 2.0, SATA-II RAID, 1 Gen2 PCIe, 1 PCIe X1 & 2 PCI
Memory: 4GB (2GBx2) DDR3/1600MHz Dual Channel Memory Module (Corsair or Major Brand)
Video Card: ATI Radeon HD 5670 1GB GDDR5 16X PCIe Video Card (Major Brand Powered by ATI)
Multiple Video Card Settings: Non-SLI/Non-CrossFireX Mode Supports Multiple Monitors
Power Supply Upgrade: 500 Watts - Standard Case Power Supply
Hard Drive: 500GB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 16MB Cache 7200RPM HDD (Single Hard Drive)
Sound: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO
LCD Monitor: 19" Widescreen 1366x768 Sceptre X195W-NAGA 5ms TFT Active Matrix LCD Display LCD (Black Color)
Keyboard: Xtreme Gear (Black Color) Multimedia/Internet USB Keyboard
Mouse: XtremeGear Optical USB 3 Buttons Gaming Mouse
Flash Media Reader/Writer: INTERNAL 12in1 Flash Media Reader/Writer (BLACK COLOR)
USB Port: Built-in USB 2.0 Ports
Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® 7 Home Premium (64-bit Edition)

My reasoning:
- I have a perfectly functional DVD drive. Matches the case, even.
- There's this silver thing lying in a bin somewhere in the house that I can plug into a USB port, basically serving a similar purpose to a power strip. It turns that one USB port into I think four. Hardly use USBs anyway.
- I don't like speakers. I haven't used the ones on my comp in months, probably a year. I prefer earbuds, not even expensive ones, just ones that will stay in my head. Mine work fine for the moment.
- I have a flash drive.
- I'd like to have liquid cooling, but I'm trying to keep the price down. If I get a job, then I'll change the cooling fan to a better one.
- I don't need a terabyte of hard drive space. I don't even need 500 gigs, but that's as low as it'll get. Hell, 150 gigs would be more than enough.
- Noise doesn't bother me. My fan runs almost constantly right next to my ear. I;m a heavy sleeper anyway.
- The processor is probably weaker than piss, but again, price.
- No need for any unneeded bitz. Just what it needs to run.

If I get Office (which IMO is stupidly overpriced), and the surge and power protectors (which my gut tells me I need, unfortunately because they aren't cheap), then this thing is pushing $900. *sigh* I might be able to get a job sometime soon, but in time to afford all this? If the return is as low as I'm thinking (and I'm a notorious pessimist), then this is going to get awkward.

[Dauth]

Use openoffice, it can open the 2007 and 2010 files and can save to the 97/2000 style so others can open it. Should save you a fair chunk

[BeefJeRKy]

With the parts you're getting liquid cooling is a solution looking for a problem tbh. I have hotter parts and I'm running on my case's default fans. Unless Rosewill's case has no fans, you probably won't need another fan now. That Cyberpower PC could be bought in parts and assembled on your own for a good $150 less I think. Plus it has a bunch of extras you said you don't need. Also, don't skimp on HDD space. Saving $15 between 250GB and 500GB isn't particularly worth it. I forgot that you would need a power supply btw. I would advise not cheaping out on this part as shitty PSUs can bring down the rest of the PC. This one should provide enough juice. I think finding a job would certainly help you out a lot especially if money is as tight as you say it is. Btw, I realized that you might as well get that first video card (GTX 460). It is cheaper and for all intents and purposes should perform the same as the 6850.

edit: for Office, see if you can grab a student license for Office. They can be had for $90-100. Personally, I find that I'm mostly using Google Docs but I do have Office Pro ($130 for students) for when I need to write longer reports and saved as a PDF.

Edited by Scope, 02 January 2011 - 15:13.

[Areze]

The Rig:
Case
Hard Drive (pointed out by scope)
Power Supply
Processor
Motherboard
DDR3 RAM (thanks, jnengland)
Graphix Card

Bitz:
Monitor (Don't need it big, or like it that way)
Logitech Keyboard & Mouse Set (Had just a keyboard initally, but the reviews of the keyboard weren't encouraging. Also, I have experience with Logitech and I trust their tech.)


Anything else?

EDIT: Added the next two suggestions.

Edited by Areze, 02 January 2011 - 20:31.

[jnengland77]

You're missing ram that will work with your motherboard. Here is my suggestion. Plus, you get 4 GB of ram instead of 2 GB for a mere $5 more.

[BeefJeRKy]

I didn't realize that I pointed out DDR2 sticks :|

Yeah go with the ones Dauthjnengland pointed out. Also I hadn't realized there are still SATA 1.5Gbps drives on sale. Might want to get one with 3 Gbps like this

edit: woops. mistook jn for dauth

Edited by Scope, 02 January 2011 - 23:52.

[Libains]

Scope, on 2 Jan 2011, 20:21, said:

I didn't realize that I pointed out DDR2 sticks :|

Yeah go with the ones Dauth pointed out. Also I hadn't realized there are still SATA 1.5Gbps drives on sale. Might want to get one with 3 Gbps like this

jnengland will be annoyed Dauth gets credit for his good work

[Areze]

So, all told, $750. That's gonna be hard to sell to my parents. :| But I guess I'll get a job and that should hopefully cover at least some of the extra. Maybe I can convince some people to chip in a little as a birthday present (which might help a bit to pay for this thing).

So, besides all that, is there anything else I need? No glue or solder to hold it together? Maybe a can of compressed air, to clean it out now and then?

[Areze]

Double-Post

So my parents didn't care for it, but I think I get get it past with some work and whatnot.

What they want to know (and have asked my several times, in fact) is:

Is it possible to recycle an old tower case from a pre-built computer? Probably a very silly question, but hey, I'm green at all this.

[BeefJeRKy]

Depends on the tower case. Some of them have wacky internals, but as long as it's a standard ATX case it should be fine.

[Areze]

Is this all good? It seems to all check out, and the power supply is stronger too...



AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition Deneb 3.4GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor
GIGABYTE AM3 AMD 870 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Motherboard
GIGABYTE GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory
Western Digital Caviar Black 500GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive
SAMSUNG CD/DVD Burner Black SATA
COOLER MASTER Silent Pro 700W ATX12V V2.3 SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply
COOLER MASTER HAF 922 Black Steel + Plastic and Mesh Bezel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

END PRICE:
$745 USD

Edited by Areze, 08 January 2011 - 02:02.

[ΓΛPTΘΓ]

Seeing its a fixed combo, it looks ok. I will change the case (looks terrible, loud, lack of dust filter) and better power supply, like a Seasonic X-650. But this is still rather solid and should work fine.

[Areze]

I'm already looking all over the place. I'm gonna get a wireless mouse & keyboard combo, 17" Acer moniter as well as (hopefully) a antiglare monitor filter.

I'm not to sure, while looking around. I have this and this for my case and power supply respectively. I'm worried about this dust filter you're on about, as I live next to a set of train tracks and this house gets dusty like nobody's business. I like the cases look and fans and the power supply seems to aheva good power supply.

I'm just worried about the wires not reaching. :(

[Amdrial]

As far as I know (coming from someone who has his computer up in the attic with a soft carpet and has two other people in the same room constantly shedding skin at the same time), dust isn't such a big issue. You'll just have to vacuum (Or preferably, use a can of compressed air) your computer on a regular basis.

The things you might want to pay a bit more attention to whilst cleaning are the cooling radiators (The copper parts through which the fans blow air) in your GPU (Graphics Processing Unit, a.k.a. graphics card) (It has one of those nice image plates on top of it in order to better direct the airflow to the radiator, so just screw that off in order to get to the radiator), as dust tends to clog up the radiators and reduce heat conduction. The same counts for your CPU.

The two major parts in a computer which generate heat are your GPU and your CPU. You might also want to look at your PSU (Power Supply Unit) from time to time and make sure not too much dust accumulates inside of that either.

Just my two cents,


Admiral

Edited by Amdrial, 08 January 2011 - 18:58.

[Areze]

So I just noticed that we can finance, this new comp, depending on where we get it. This means that I can effectively double my (mom's) budget to the $1200 max range.

So I decided to look at a higher range comp at Cyberpower.

CyberpowerPC said:

Case: In-Win Dragon Rider Full Tower Case w/ 1x120mm Front Fan, 1x220mm LED Side Fan, Front USB 3.0 x 2 & Water-Cooling Hole Ready
CPU: AMD Phenom™II X4 965 Black Edition Quad-Core CPU w/ HyperTransport Technology
Cooling Fan: Asetek 570LX Liquid Cooling system w/ 240MM Radiator and Dual Fans
Motherboard: GigaByte GA-770T-USB3 AMD 770 Chipset Support DDR3 Ultra Durable™3 Socket AM3 ATX Mainboard w/ 7.1 HD Audio, GbLAN, USB3.0, SATA-II, RAID, 1 Gen2 PCIe, 4 PCIe X1, & 2 PCI
Memory: 4GB (2GBx2) DDR3/1600MHz Dual Channel Memory Module (Corsair or Major Brand)
Video Card: AMD Radeon HD 6850 1GB GDDR5 16X PCIe Video Card (Major Brand Powered by AMD)
Power Supply Upgrade: 700 Watts - XtremeGear SLI/CrossFireX Ready Power Supply
Hard Drive: 750GB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 16MB Cache 7200RPM HDD [-6] (750GB x 2 (1.5 TB Capacity) Raid 0 Extreme Performance])
Sound: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO

How's this? The cooling is likely complete overkill but that just means I won't have to replace it.

I could probably get better for my money (this is just over $1200 plus bits like sound reduction and better wiring), but the warranty is good, and it's basically all I want. But if I can get better, I will.

So, I was thinking about getting an OEM version for the possible Newegg option. It's almost $100 cheaper, but you don't get tech support (who I'd never use), fancy box (no, anything but that! -_-), and manual (see both of previous). I have used Win7 before, and have a bit of experience with it. But I heard that if I plan on changing the computer a lot, then I might have to bite the bullet and get M$'s retail version. Any help?

Edited by Areze, 14 January 2011 - 04:56.

[ΓΛPTΘΓ]

The stock water block on that rad is terrible, a good air cooler will beat it with no pump noise.

Case is not the best, but personal choice.

Mobo is by far the worst part there. 770 is far too old for a brand new comp.

Don't bother paying for sound damping on that case and pump, and cable management can be done yourself for free.

The PSU also bothers me, it doesn't state the model or even brand. A bad PSU can mess up your computer REAL GOOD.

Edited by ΓΛΡΤΘΓ, 14 January 2011 - 20:00.

[Areze]

A'ight. How about the OEM Win7?
Also, cheap 1TB hard drive. :3.

[ΓΛPTΘΓ]

Areze, on 14 Jan 2011, 20:22, said:

A'ight. How about the OEM Win7?
Also, cheap 1TB hard drive. :3.

Just get a F3.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...2-185-_-Product

[BeefJeRKy]

ΓΛΡΤΘ&#, on 14 Jan 2011, 22:24, said:

Areze, on 14 Jan 2011, 20:22, said:

A'ight. How about the OEM Win7?
Also, cheap 1TB hard drive. :3.

Just get a F3.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...2-185-_-Product

I don't see a problem with Hitachi? Personally I prefer Western Digital to other HDD brands but there is practically no difference between brands.

I've said it before. Water/liquid cooling is too much of a hassle. It isn't quieter than a good fan and is best for overclocking. Save the money and get a better MoBo as he suggested. 790GX or 890GX based.

[Areze]

No word on the OEM operating system? D:


I figured that. I'm probably going to build the thing with Newegg, as Cyberpower's are a smidge bloated. Not as bad as Alienware, but still.

[ΓΛPTΘΓ]

Scope, on 15 Jan 2011, 8:14, said:

ΓΛΡΤΘ&#, on 14 Jan 2011, 22:24, said:

Areze, on 14 Jan 2011, 20:22, said:

A'ight. How about the OEM Win7?
Also, cheap 1TB hard drive. :3.

Just get a F3.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...2-185-_-Product

I don't see a problem with Hitachi? Personally I prefer Western Digital to other HDD brands but there is practically no difference between brands.

I've said it before. Water/liquid cooling is too much of a hassle. It isn't quieter than a good fan and is best for overclocking. Save the money and get a better MoBo as he suggested. 790GX or 890GX based.

No, no and NO. It can make a huge difference. Not all hard disk are made equal, disk platter density, number of platters, rotation speed, all can affect access time, read/write rate and maximum burst speed. Which in turn make up how responsive the system is as its being the OS/main drive. Also, some drives are much quieter than one others.

[BeefJeRKy]

Over time, Windows will bloat an HDD

Either way, in my last programming course, it is seek time and rotation speed that make the largest difference in access time. Disk platter density and number of platters only becomes an issue when the disk reaches capacity and/or gets heavily fragmented. And personally if one is really really concerned about access times and I/O speed, I would suggest waiting for SSD capacities to get cheaper. I'd expect the price of a 60GB SSD to dip under $100 this year. And the slowest SSD tends to be miles ahead of even the Velociraptor drives.

[ΓΛPTΘΓ]

Scope, on 16 Jan 2011, 16:45, said:

Over time, Windows will bloat an HDD

Either way, in my last programming course, it is seek time and rotation speed that make the largest difference in access time. Disk platter density and number of platters only becomes an issue when the disk reaches capacity and/or gets heavily fragmented. And personally if one is really really concerned about access times and I/O speed, I would suggest waiting for SSD capacities to get cheaper. I'd expect the price of a 60GB SSD to dip under $100 this year. And the slowest SSD tends to be miles ahead of even the Velociraptor drives.

I did not wish for this thread turning into a HDD thread, but seeing I haven't got your MSN, I am just gonna explain it to you here. In simple words.

The basic performance factors of a HDD is:

Seek time: How quickly the HDD finds the needed info.
Read/Write speed: Duh.

But what affects the performance is mainly, rotational speed, data density on disk platter, cache size.

Number of platter indirectly affect, noise level (heavier load rotating usually yield more noise) and data density (for example F3 uses 500GB platters, so only 2 platters is needed for a 1TB drive. If a drive use more platter, it have less data density on the platter *except smaller 2.5" drives, like Velociraptor and laptop drives*) It will also affect power draw, if you are the kind of green person.

About Windows bloating HDD, I totally did not find any performance degradation on my system with the same drive and OS for years. My last installation of Windows, was when I got the Windows 7 RTM from Microsoft themselves. That was 3 months before public launch. If you do basic maintenance on the system regularly, its not a problem at all.

In short not all drives are the same, or even remotely close. It can make quite a difference on the system performance, on a Cuda 7200.10, my boot time average around 1 min, with the F3 its around half of it.


http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/storage/2...f3-1tb-review/1
^ This even confirm my finding of halved boot time.
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/storage/2...-600gb-review/1
^ most useless drive at the moment.
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/storage/2...gb-ssd-review/1
^ Fastest SSD now.

Read through the real world gains, its not as huge as you might think. Well, at least for the price.