37 replies to this topic

[Ilves]

narboza22, on 13 Sep 2007, 6:04, said:

You're a little off there. It is very possible to bend light around an object. That's the idea behind optic camouflage.

To bend the light? :wahhhhhaa: Then I wish you good luck installing a black hole into a plane. Or a soldier

Quote

Like CNC Nod stealth technology. Makes a "Bubble" around object that bends light.
If you wanted it to be invisible, just cover it in mirrors.

It won't work for anything more complicated background then a plane-blue sky. Also you'll need an army of mirrors (or its analogues) floating around you in different angles.

Quote

Wasn't there a camo under development for soldiers in the US?

No, it was a Japanese coat and it works by the camera-projector system I described in the previous message
I want also to mention one thing. This wonder-coat won't save you from nobody except poor dumbasses. Modern armies have infra-red and thermo-vision sights that declasses all this optic toys to zero.

The same as chemical weapons are useless wastes when using against soldiers all wearing chemical-protection wear (every soldier has a gas-mask from 1930's) and WMD-protected vehicles (this are all soviet vehicles starting from T-55). What was once wunderwaffe with time becomes useless crap. The optic camo became useless before its invention. However, it's still could be good to hunt some poor Africans
I beliebe that soon even ballistic missiles will be not more, then a weapon to punish some afghanistans or sudans

Edited by AL_Hassan, 13 September 2007 - 14:36.

[narboza22]

Adding optic camo to a plane or a tank would not mean that you are taking away its other low observable technologies. Planes are built now that are LO to IR and radar, and if optic camo ever makes it to production, they would just add that on top. The same goes for an IR stealthed tank.

[Ilves]

We have developed in 90's a locator system that detects plane by the air in what they fly. This means the only way to make planes really undetectable you need to make disappear all air around it. And without air planes usually don't fly. Also you need to breath something..

IMO: in years 10 all this stealth-features will become just a decoration.

[Crush3r]

If you bend light around an object (plane, tank....), the pilot won't be able to see anything, as no light is coming in. It needs an outside (non-camouflaged) camera (so he can see outside) and internal light sources (so he can see the controls), so it will need loads of energy to operate.

[Razven]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but do you even know how heavy MOPP gear weighs? Just by saying "We have chemical/biological weapons" already makes half the enemy nervous, starting with massive plans to have Anthrax vaccines, happy-death pills, MOPP gear, gas masks, carbon filters, Chemical/Biological/Radiological sensors - which all decrease enemy infantry movement speed and effectiveness.

BTW: You cannot protect against WMDs, you can't "protect" against a tactical nuke falling on a tank army reducing it to nothing by glowing radioactive heap of metal, besides, if you drop enough nerve gas and anthrax, the carbon filters are going to give out on your Russian tanks and then the crew dies.

[Ilves]

Quote

Sorry to burst your bubble, but do you even know how heavy MOPP gear weighs?

The WMD protection is basically implented in every tank and every combat vehicle beginning from T-55.
As for the infantry - right, a full-defense MOPP gear is quite uncomfortable but required only if the enemy uses nerve-gases like sarin or soman. For defense against regular gases a simple gas mask will be fully enough.

Quote

if you drop enough nerve gas and anthrax, the carbon filters are going to give out on your Russian tanks

You'll need surely to drop an ocean of Anthrax to get the air-filter on T-series not working
And even in case of that fantastic scenario if you have a ocean of chemical weapons and the WMD-filter is out of order, the tank can by simple germetized, the air inside of it will be enough to move it into a safe position or to stand a battle.

Quote

BTW: You cannot protect against WMDs, you can't "protect" against a tactical nuke falling on a tank army

The range of tactical nuke blast zone is too small to cover an entire tank army.
The radiation zone doesn't matters for a WMD-protected tank, as it's crews can hold themselves for a time duration ranging from few hours up to continuum, depending on radiation received.

Quote

and then the crew dies.

The WMD-war doctrine doesn't say that the crews in tanks must be invincible, they just need to hold long enough till they complete their battle task and will be changed by another crew.
And that's not cruel at all. For comparison - during WWII a regular Sherman that took part in totally non-WMD battles changed its crew for 3 times. For mechanical crew's death reasons.

Conclusion: don't base your real-life knowledges from Generals

Edited by AL_Hassan, 04 October 2007 - 13:47.

[Rot Front]

Quote

BTW: You cannot protect against WMDs, you can't "protect" against a tactical nuke falling on a tank army

BTW do you heared about Obyekt-279 superheavy tank? Of course, it can't protect from direct hit of nuke, but it is designed to stand after shockwave of nuclear blast.

[Hobbesy]

I thought it was designed to go through swamps and frozen tundra. Not to survive a nuclear shockwave, in which it would be knocked over no matter how heavy it is. That and it was just a prototype and was abandoned.

Quote

Obyekt 279 (Russian: Объект 279) was a Soviet prototype heavy tank developed in the Kirov industrial plant, Leningrad by a group headed by the engineer L Troyanov in 1957. The special-purpose tank was intended to fight on cross-country terrain that was unaccessible to conventional tanks and act as a vehicle to break through enemy defensive positions. It was planned as a tank of the Supreme Command Reserve.

This tank was a unique version boasting increased cross-country capability. The tank featured four-track running gear mounted on two longitudinal retangular hollow beams, used as fuel tanks. The tank hull (with 269 mm armour) was protected against HEAT projectiles. It comprised large cast irregular shape structures of variable thickness and slope. The all-cast front part of the hull was rounded in shape with thin armour panels against HEAT projectiles, which ran around the edges of the front and sides of the hull. The sides of the hull were also cast and had similar protective armour panels.

The all-cast turret (front armour thickness 305 mm) was rounded, with anti-HEAT protective panels mounted at a seventy degree angle. The turret ring was also heavily protected.

The tank was fitted with a 130 mm rifled M-65 (firing APDS rounds with a muzzle velocity of 1000 m/s), and a co-axial 14.5 mm KPVT heavy machine gun, stabilized in two planes by a "Groza" stabilizer. The gun was provided with a semi-automatic loading system. Firing control system comprised optical/radar rangefinder, auto-guidance system and L2 night-sight with IR searchlight. The tank suspension was hydro-pneumatic with complex hydrotransformer and three-speed planetary gearbox. The track adjuster was worm-type.

The tank was also fitted with NBC protection and auto fire-fighting systems, smoke laying equipment and combat compartment heating/cooling system.

The specific ground pressure of this heavy vehicle did not exceed 0.6 kgf/cm2. The track chain, running practically along the whole track length provided for increased cross-country capabilities on swampy terrain, soft soils and area full of cut trees, hedgehogs, antitank obstacles and the like. The powerful 16 cylinder 1000 hp engine 2DG-8M enabled the 60-ton vehicle to attain 55 km/h speed with active range of 300 km on one refuel.

The tank successfully underwent all trials. However, it was abandoned, like all new heavy tanks in 1959 by Nikita Khrushchev, who was a supporter of rocket tanks, such as the IT-1 (ИТ-1) which was armed with Dragon (Дракон) ATGMs. The only sample of this unique vehicle is today exhibited at the Kubinka Tank Museum, fifty kilometres outside Moscow.

Edited by Høbbês 1098, 06 October 2007 - 00:57.

[Ilves]

Saying shortly, it was abandoned because the tank was heavy and Hruschev was a dumbass

[Hobbesy]

That and Russia already had technology that made it obsolete. But this topic is about a theoretical plane being designed by Russia, not the Obyekt.

My saying on this optic camouflage is thus: There is a project currently in the works to make a "cell based paint" that works much like a chameleon's skin, something in the paint or coating makes it adapt to its surrounding resulting in a near perfect camouflage that changes with the environment no matter what, if done correctly it would make whatever it is on nearly invisible. I can not really see a use for it though as thermal vision would make it obsolete.

Edited by Høbbês 1098, 13 October 2007 - 04:52.

[narboza22]

There are already paints and thread dyes that all but eliminate thermal signatures. I'm sure if they managed to perfect an optic camo paint, they would be able to make it work with the thermal camo paint as well.

[General Kirkov]

People's Liberation Army, on 4 Oct 2007, 9:03, said:

Sorry to burst your bubble, but do you even know how heavy MOPP gear weighs?

Yes. It's heavy and fun to run in if full fighting order (Rucksack, webbing, a big ass mg and loads of ammo).

Al_Hassan said:

Khrushchev was a dumbass

I cannot believe you said that! He built the Berlin wall, detonated the worlds largest Nuke and nearly destroyed the world in 1962! This is not the Al_Hassan, I learned to mock!


Ok back on track, man can build anything it puts its mind to. Every technological breakthrough was preceded by: your crazy, that won't work it's impossible! The cellular paint seems to be the most logical way to go about things. However, It would have to be reaplied every so often I think.

Edited by Capt. Kirkov, 14 October 2007 - 18:12.

[Hobbesy]

It would be no different than a regular plane that has to have it's paint reapplied every few months.