21 replies to this topic

[Zero]

You know how God is a supreme being? Well, what if he's a living thing. Here's my reasoning. As 3D beings we can interact with anything that is 3D. If this also applies to 4D creatures (which are hypothetically possible) then wouldn't any sentient being be a god? I mean, they can interact- not control- time, meaning they can move it back/foward and are essentially immortal as the laws of time and aging wouldn't apply to them the same way they do to us. Also, because they can interact with time they would be able to forsee EVERYTHING that can and will happen. What do you think? :telefrag:

[Reaper94]

1. what do youmean by sentinant being

2. whats the fourth dimension?

[Dauth]

1) Sentient, having a conscience mind (Not a requirement for posting sadly)

2) Time

@Topic
Far too much of an atheist for this to occupy my thoughts

[Zero]

I don't care about religion, I'm talking purely scientifically. If a 4D organism existed, wouldn't it be a god in our dimension as it can manipulate everything in our universe because it can control time? It doesn't matter if you're an aethist or whatever, isn't it possible?

[G-sus]

well the whole "god thingy" is very mysterious anyway...

religious people say "god created earth and the universe..."
scientists say "that´s bullcrap! at first there was nothing, and that nothing exploded, what formed the universe..."

so i cant decide what´s more silly...

[Zero]

I'm not saying God is real and this is NOT about religion. I'm just saying a 4D being could have the powers of a God because they can control time+space.

[G-sus]

just any 4D being...? e.g. Hyperboobs...? <_< IRC insider...

Edited by G-sus, 16 May 2008 - 20:54.

[Dauth]

Time is a measure of the low energy regime of the 4 dimensional space time that we exist within. Humans can speed up their perception of time and slow it down.

Have you ever watched a glass fall and have the time stretch out in front of you?
Or a project to be completed and the time disappears to nought?

Giving a creature control over time is ludicrous since time does not exist, it is an interpretation of something far more complex.

[Zero]

Well, it is hypothetically possible for a living thing to exist in the 4D realm and it would be able to manipulate time.

[Dauth]

Time does not exist!

There are 4 spacetime dimensions these are not equivalent to x,y,z,t this only really becomes apparent with extended study tho.

[Zero]

I'm sorry the, my bad. I feel stupid now

[CodeCat]

In our universe, the 4th dimension can be considered as timelike because we perceive it that way. But I believe that in general there are two types of dimension: timelike and spacelike. We have 1 timelike dimension and 3 spacelike dimensions, together making up a 4-dimensional spacetime. However, if you could manipulate a hypothetical 4th space dimension, then yes you might seem all-powerful by comparison. I suggest you give the book 'flatland' a read if you're interested.

[Zero]

CodeCat, on 18 May 2008, 12:26, said:

In our universe, the 4th dimension can be considered as timelike because we perceive it that way. But I believe that in general there are two types of dimension: timelike and spacelike. We have 1 timelike dimension and 3 spacelike dimensions, together making up a 4-dimensional spacetime. However, if you could manipulate a hypothetical 4th space dimension, then yes you might seem all-powerful by comparison. I suggest you give the book 'flatland' a read if you're interested.

That's what I'm trying to say, not that there is a 4th dimension that is.....Well, let's put it like this, I'm saying that 4D space is just time, it's not a physical dimension. 4D beings would exist in 3D space and would but would be able to interact with the 4th dimension and therefore would be able to move throug time+ space.

[CodeCat]

There is nothing at all that dictates a 4th dimension must be timelike. For example you could have a 4-dimensional mathematical equation that is not time-dependent. There you go, 4 dimensions without time.

http://en.wikipedia....cell-simple.gif

That is a 3-dimensional rendering (2 of space since the image is flat, and 1 of time) of an object in 5-dimensional space (4 of space, 1 of time).

[Zero]

But in science (not math), time is the 4th dimension, you cannot argue against that, it's fact.

[CodeCat]

It's not fact. It's one of 4 dimensions of the spacetime in OUR universe, yes. But whether it's the 1st or 4th or any other number is arbitrary, and there is no guarantee that more dimensions don't exist.

[Dr. Strangelove]

CodeCat, on 19 May 2008, 13:49, said:

There is nothing at all that dictates a 4th dimension must be timelike. For example you could have a 4-dimensional mathematical equation that is not time-dependent. There you go, 4 dimensions without time.



That is a 3-dimensional rendering (2 of space since the image is flat, and 1 of time) of an object in 5-dimensional space (4 of space, 1 of time).

Not that I don't understand anything else you posted(I do), but that is an awesome looking animation.

Edited by Dr. Strangelove, 19 May 2008 - 23:12.

[Zero]

CodeCat, on 19 May 2008, 20:19, said:

It's not fact. It's one of 4 dimensions of the spacetime in OUR universe, yes. But whether it's the 1st or 4th or any other number is arbitrary, and there is no guarantee that more dimensions don't exist.

LISTEN, this applies to OUR universe, I won't say I know anything about any other universe because I don't know shit! Dude, this applies to our universe and our universe only! I know there can be different dimensions but not in THIS universe. Okay, stay on topic, we're talking about a 4D being as powerful as kami (God), because it can interact with time in OUR universe.

[Dauth]

I'd listen to CodeCat, he has spent a year studying physics at university, and I've spent 4.

For the final time, there are 4 spacetime dimensions, and by adding energy to a particle or system you can manipulate any of them, the only problem is the energy required is so high.

There is a distinct chance of more dimensions, have a look at gravitons if you want.

TIME DOES NOT EXIST! We just perceive it.

[̀̀̀̀█]

Time exists just as much as bosons and force wielding particles do. Just because you can't see it, does not mean its not there. We perceive it, meaning that it has to exist. All depends on your definition of exist. Seriously. don't just say that it doesn't exist. We can calculate using it, it is a constant, how does it not exist? It may not exist as a dimension, but it is there. Time travel is probably impossible, as far as going back is concerned. you can probably jump forward, but it would just be a relative time cease, and most likely would just bring you to the end of the universe.


Another idea of mine: The time fridge. Fuck cooling your food, just throw it into a container that had time stopped inside it. Presto, always fresh food.


Also, I think Dauth and code are disagreeing here. Code was just getting at Tsu's use of 4th...... Dauth has a whole new view it seems...... Care to explain why time does not exist Dauth?

@ original question: Yes, any being that can control time would be godlike. I always fancied the idea that any god that does exist is just the first person send faster than light.... he became light, and then lost all meaning of time, and as such could be everywhere at one time. That would be a god for ya.

[Dauth]

People are referring to time as a dimension, that dimension does not exist.

We live in a very good approximation to a FRW universe, which can be described by the Minkowski 4-vector.
(ct, x, y, z) which has the identity value (1, -1, -1, -1) depending on definitions.

Box, (Pyrobob) show me evidence of time that cannot be explained as the low energy FRW regime, because I've already seen evidence of force bosons.

[̀̀̀̀█]

Please edit and take out pyrobob, as I know not who he is >.>

As for this argument, I agree with dauth, but not knowing what the FWR universe is, and being too lazy to wiki it....

Anyway, time does exist, but not as a dimension. I think that is dauth's point, and I rather have to agree with him......