1362 replies to this topic

[Jazzie Spurs]

Yo buddy are ya ready for eat my tank's shields!?

[V.Metalic]

HeartBreak1, on 29 Jul 2008, 19:17, said:

Yo buddy are ya ready for eat my tank's shields!?

Which faction you are and which tank shield you mean?

[Kamikazi]

Whats the status? Can some make a little map again would be easy

[Admiral FCS]

"Kid" is under General Wolfgang's command, remember? But about the shield, not sure what.

*Receives news*

Bad news pilots, they moved in more artillery and guarded then with proper AA, looks like we need to request stealth comanche upgrade.

[LCPL Carrow]

Off topic, About the PAK-FA being superior to the F-22: When has Russian equipment or training ever been superior to American equipment or training? Never, and it certainly is not now. Pouring a lot of money into military recruitment and training? Cool, so are we, and we've got a helluva lot more to pour into it than you.

[V.Metalic]

PFC Carrow, on 29 Jul 2008, 22:52, said:

Off topic, About the PAK-FA being superior to the F-22: When has Russian equipment or training ever been superior to American equipment or training? Never, and it certainly is not now. Pouring a lot of money into military recruitment and training? Cool, so are we, and we've got a helluva lot more to pour into it than you.

eh?

Tip from the independent spectator:
If Russia had artillery guarded with heavy AA weapons, dont use air forces, but long-range weapons or your own artillery.

[DerKrieger]

General FCS, on 29 Jul 2008, 21:43, said:

Bad news pilots, they moved in more artillery and guarded then with proper AA, looks like we need to request stealth comanche upgrade. [/color]

We do have jamming/stealth aircraft that may help in air raids. Furthermore, our ships can also launch cruise missiles to attack land targets (even though it it possible to down them with SAMs).

Has deployment of more US troops to Europe been greenlighted?

[Admiral FCS]

Metalic, I am CAS Regiment Commander, not Artillery Division Commander, so I don't have artillery.

Commander Kamikazi, can I request artillery strike on enemy AA positions?

EDIT: Oops thought I am a CAS Brigade Commander

Edited by General FCS, 30 July 2008 - 19:55.

[Alias]

PFC Carrow, on 30 Jul 2008, 7:52, said:

Off topic, About the PAK-FA being superior to the F-22: When has Russian equipment or training ever been superior to American equipment or training? Never, and it certainly is not now. Pouring a lot of money into military recruitment and training? Cool, so are we, and we've got a helluva lot more to pour into it than you.

At least their government isn't driving their country into debt due to war...
I'm not going to say more than that, but you're the one who brought real life issues into this.

Edited by Alias, 30 July 2008 - 06:34.

[Whitey]

Driving it further into debt you mean?

-Boidy

[LCPL Carrow]

My point exactly.

[Alias]

So your point is that the US of A driving itself further into debt with wars is a "good" thing?

[LCPL Carrow]

Why would I be talking about the United States? I think it's pretty obvious that I meant Russia.

[CommanderJB]

PFC Carrow, on 30 Jul 2008, 7:52, said:

Off topic, About the PAK-FA being superior to the F-22: When has Russian equipment or training ever been superior to American equipment or training? Never, and it certainly is not now. Pouring a lot of money into military recruitment and training? Cool, so are we, and we've got a helluva lot more to pour into it than you.

I'm going to quote myself here, from the 'Post all the Russian stuff you find out' from the RotR forum (now moved to Warfare Technology):

CommanderJB, on 26 Jul 2008, 22:41, said:

To be entirely honest it really ticks me off when people downplay Russian engineering as 'just playing catch-up to the U.S.' or 'just copies of American technology' or 'they're nowhere near as good, never were and never will be'. It's wrong. Blatantly, plainly and simply wrong. In fact, at least half the time it was the Russians who made the biggest advances in the Cold War and it was NATO who was scrambling to catch up. If the Cold War had gone hot in 1985 then the Americans had virtually nothing which could pierce the Kontakt-5 ERA deployed on Russian armour at the time, which was more numerous if not superior one-on-one (though it was close - Russian tank designs tend to be faster, longer ranged and more economical than Western ones but with thinner armour and often slightly worse fire control) and they seriously underestimated the R-27 Vympel which was about twice as capable as the equivalent AIM-9 Sidewinder, combined with the Su-27 and MiG-29 virtually ensuring USSR air superiority in dogfight scenarios, never mind the air defence side of the coin. NATO has nothing (and never has) to match Russia's expertise in air defence; there is simply no equivalent to the SA-10/12 Grumble/Gladiator, and these and the sheer number of SA-6, SA-11, SA-13, ZSU-23-4 (which was first built in the '60s and is still considered a serious threat to helicopters and low-flying jets even today) and the dozens of other systems they fielded would have made NATO CAS missions virtually suicide. With the collapse of the Soviet Union, obviously R&D and production efforts slowed to a craw, but then so would any nations' when unemployment gets to 40% as it was in 1998. But then by 2003 it was at 12%, and these days the Russian economy, particularly the domestic sector, is booming, and so they're back in the technology game, as their recent ballooning spending and array of new projects have highlighted.

Russian tech isn't worse. But it's not necessarily better, either. It's simply different. Instead of pouring all their resources into a brand-new, absolutely top-of-the line design, they tend to spread out their advantages; they can for example produce 10 Su-35BMs, a 4++ generation fighter outranking everything else in the sky, for every one F-22A Raptor America builds. Same with their tanks - they didn't actually replace their entire armoured division with a new T-95 a la Abrams, they do evolutionary updates to the whole fleet, ensuring that the older designs often get the better upgrades in order to ensure they can operate everything on a level, while fielding enough new models (T-90) to bridge any foreseeable gap. It's not revolutionary thinking, like America approaches a new tank/plane/helicopter/ship/whatever, where they go to the drawing board and start from scratch, Russian design philosophy is strongly evolutionary, developing designs constantly and only rarely starting afresh.

My apologies for the spiel, but you have to understand that different nations and different ways of thinking approach the same problem or requirement in vastly different ways, and come up with end results that you can't really always directly compare, because the thinking on how to use them varies just as much as the thinking on how to build them.

Russia develops their own stuff, and to be honest half the time it's a better solution that the U.S. equivalent. The U.S. and its allies continually contract Antonov heavy-lift transport aircraft for use delivering supplies to Iraq and other locations because they haven't got the same capability; even the C-5 Galaxy isn't enough half the time, and it has a pretty terrible safety record, so they contract the An-225. Not to mention they continually buy places on the Soyuz and rely on Progress capsules to keep the ISS supplied and manned because the Space Shuttles aren't in the air three quarters of the time these days.



Not to mention it's all frickin' fiction in this case, and quite out-there fiction at that, anyway. Yes, Russia would have lost a real Cold War because their economy went to hell and had a run of half-mad leaders, but I think if Russia is invading Europe and has successfully removed the Bundeswehr from the equation without appreciable force reduction, and is pressing into the remainder of Europe, we can safely assume that they're at least as good as American forces in this scenario. And the U.S. doesn't have vast oil and natural gas reserves. So that's probably where their money is coming from.
There's actually more than a little ring of EndWar to this scenario; there are so many parallels it's just not funny. The lore, for those of you unfamiliar with it, is here. It gives a very plausible explanation for how Russia can regain its superpower status.

[Alias]

PFC Carrow, on 31 Jul 2008, 9:55, said:

Why would I be talking about the United States? I think it's pretty obvious that I meant Russia.

I was talking about the US, Boidy was responding to me and you responded to him.
Russia is in debt, but at least it isn't due to waging wars that didn't need to be started.

Enough of this, back to the roleplay.

[Crazykenny]

Great, patriotic American's is the last thing this thread needs. Go take your Russia hating somewhere else (refrains from using the Y-word)

[DerKrieger]

CommanderJB, on 31 Jul 2008, 5:21, said:

And the U.S. doesn't have vast oil and natural gas reserves. So that's probably where their money is coming from.

Actually it does, it's just that most of it hasn't been tapped yet. But let's get back to the topic at hand...

[Kamikazi]

General FCS, on 30 Jul 2008, 7:49, said:

Metalic, I am CAS Regiment Commander, not Artillery Division Commander, so I don't have artillery.

Commander Kamikazi, can I request artillery strike on enemy AA positions?

EDIT: Oops thought I am a CAS Brigade Commander

Yes you can! What are the coordinates? Over and out

[Admiral FCS]

Sending coordinates.

*Sends coordinates*

[Kamikazi]

"Coordinates received and confirmed!"

"All artillery units fire at these coordinates"

*boom boom boom boom*

"Enemy targets destroyed, sir!"

"Good job, men!"

"General FCS, units destroyed, its up to you now!"

[V.Metalic]

Kamikazi, on 31 Jul 2008, 20:15, said:

"Coordinates received and confirmed!"

"All artillery units fire at these coordinates"

*boom boom boom boom*

"Enemy targets destroyed, sir!"

"Good job, men!"

"General FCS, units destroyed, its up to you now!"

FCS, or Chopper, isnt General.... or yes?

[Kamikazi]

His name is just General FCS

[Jazzie Spurs]

Yo yankies! Clean ze skies! Choppers incomming!

[V.Metalic]

Kamikazi, on 31 Jul 2008, 20:40, said:

His name is just General FCS

Chopper :bigeye:

[Admiral FCS]

Sorry General (?) Kid, but I can't do that. I'll send a message to DerKrieger and he will certainly help.

*Sends message to DerKrieger*
*Mount a F-22*
*Get a squadron with himself*
*Squadron takes off*
*Let's Rock&Roll*