114 replies to this topic

[Dutchygamer]

Then I'll tell who I mean't with 'who' in my previous post: The Dutchies

[NergiZed]

The Georgian Pres. is on CNN right now making a speach (a plee) for support.

He also said that the Russian Black Sea fleet has begun to move on Georgia and have already started to invade Abkazia province (or however you spell it).

[Kichō]

What I don't get is that it's happening right on the Olympics....Was this planned or something to interrupt it? :S

[TehKiller]

Actually its more of using the Olympics for advantage (the world leaders are visiting China afterall)

[Thez]

CodeCat, on 9 Aug 2008, 11:45, said:

But on the other hand, if you figuratively smack their heads together, you're involving yourself in someone else's matters.

Agreed, the whole world should be paying attention but it's not like we are heading for nuclear annihilation just yet.
Granted it should be encouraged to find a peaceful solution but if those two want to go war, why should we involve ourselves?
It's not like there is some random terrorist calling the shots over there.

[Stinger]

Thez, on 9 Aug 2008, 12:40, said:

It's not like there is some random terrorist calling the shots over there.

But what makes a terrorist a terrorist? A terrorist is a terrorist based purely on perspective alone.

There is a common misconception that terrorists are people who are technologically backward. I don't think that is the case.

[NergiZed]

There are plenty of Separatists in that area. (like in Chechnya, Dagestan, Abzakia, South Ossetia, etc.) Some perceive them as liberators, some percieve them as terrorists.

[Thez]

Stinger, on 9 Aug 2008, 13:45, said:

Thez, on 9 Aug 2008, 12:40, said:

It's not like there is some random terrorist calling the shots over there.

But what makes a terrorist a terrorist? A terrorist is a terrorist based purely on perspective alone.

There is a common misconception that terrorists are people who are technologically backward. I don't think that is the case.

My idea of a Terrorist is some whackjob who would blow anyone and their dog up for not being ocmpletely devoted to their beliefs.
Terrorists don't need to be backwards, all it takes is one nutjob in a garage with an ICBM and watch the world kill itself.

[CommanderJB]

It's not so much a matter of 'who will win' as 'when will they call a ceasefire'. The sooner the better - they both know each other means business, and they should both realise that to continue the fighting will be detrimental for everyone, but unfortunately the Georgians have made Russia mad and/or given them a convenient excuse, and I don't see Russia stopping until they've seriously bloodied the opposition, especially given the losses Georgia have inflicted on their air forces. The second they get any real forces in there, especially helicopter forces, the Georgians will lose any advantage they have and start losing their entire military in short order and they undoubtedly know it. Whether Russia is willing to stop now that it's shown the world just how seriously it takes South Ossetia I don't know, but I hope so, because they have nothing really to gain by occupying Georgia - a full-scale invasion is I hope not their aim, otherwise we would have seen a much larger build-up.

[General Kirkov]

7 Words: Russia is going to fuck them up. Also tittle very missleading, made my heart stop.

You do not mess with a Russian asset ever. In-fact may use this as an excuse to march on Georgia.

-edit- word jumble!


-edit- Not all the world leaders are in China, Prime Minister Putin is in Moscow.

Edited by General Kirkov, 09 August 2008 - 12:34.

[CodeCat]

Fixed the title, it was too misleading (if not just incorrect).

[Kamikazi]

Russia > Georgia, Georgia's military forces are way smaller than the Russian ones, so...

[logical2u]

I still want the title changed. South Ossetia is part of Georgian territory. So technically Russia invaded Georgia. Edit: Codecat edited the title as I was posting this!

The big deal is that North Ossetia is Russian - so the south wants to join them.

I say it's a police action because the Georgian army attacked a town in their own country.

It doesn't matter how violent or brutal it is, it is only ever going to be called a police action or "clamping down on violent insurgents" when you invade your own territory. Canada had the FLQ crisis in the 70s and declared martial law, they sent the army into Quebec, and that wasn't a war. The Korean War wasn't a war - it was a police action. Afghanistan's current problem isn't a war - it's too many criminals.

When you use/redefine the laws to make your enemies criminals, it's only ever a police action.

ALSO
----

The latest news is that Russian jets have bombed a Georgian town near South Ossetia's capital. That is, a town not involved in the initial ground fighting.

Edited by logical2u, 09 August 2008 - 12:36.

[CommanderJB]

Correctly to begin with it would have been 'Georgia invades Georgia'. But now it's 'Georgia invades Georgia and Russia invades Georgia in response'. But never mind. I have found this from Reuters which outlines possibilities for the continuation of the war:
http://uk.reuters.co...931354820080809

Quote

The following are possible scenarios:

* Russia may use its military might to impose a return to the status quo ante, forcing Georgia to accept the continued separatism of South Ossetia.

* Russia may annex South Ossetia, the majority of whose population have already been given Russian passports. Outside powers might object but could probably do nothing about it.

* Russia may make a large-scale incursion into Georgia and try to overthrow President Mikheil Saakashvili, whose pro-Western stance has annoyed Moscow since he won Georgia's presidential election in 2004. Neighbors and other world powers might object strongly, seeing this as a new expansionist drive upsetting the international order, but they could do little to stop it.

* Georgia, lacking the military strength to oppose the Russians, must decide whether to pull its troops out of South Ossetia in a humiliating climbdown or to continue resisting the Russian advance and appeal for outside help on the grounds that South Ossetia is still Georgian territory.

I personally feel the second is most likely, as despite Georgian President Mikhael Saakashvili saying this is a 'well-planned invasion' by Russia the fact is that it is Georgia who initiated the events here, so the timing is theirs, and also they currently have something of a military advantage as well thanks to the forces they already have stationed there from their initial operation. But this will stop being the case very soon. I hope for whatever outcome reduces the risk to life in the fastest possible way, namely a ceasefire as soon as possible. But I don't expect it.

Also, Putin is in fact in Beijing. It's President Dmitriy Medvedev who's in Moscow.

[Ilves]

logical2u, on 9 Aug 2008, 14:35, said:

I still want the title changed. South Ossetia is part of Georgian territory. So technically Russia invaded Georgia. Edit: Codecat edited the title as I was posting this!

Just change the title to "Georgia invades South Ossetia", "War in Georgia" or smth else neutral, don't be like hysteric Mikheil who screams like girl being raped all over the world "Ahhh!!! We have been invaded!".
If you remember, it weren't neither Ossetians, neither Russians who fired the first shot and first pulled their tanks, so calling it the "invasion of Georgia" is a bit.. not smart

Quote

I say it's a police action because the Georgian army attacked a town in their own country.

That on the maps it's "their" town doesn't mean at all that this town is REALLY theirs, Abkhazia and S.Ossetia are de-facto independent countries since 1992.
Also when somebody somewhere kills a US citizen - the whole horde of F-15's and marine is above you - why Russia has no right also to defend their citizen when their are killed in thousand?
When borderguards in Panama just roughly threw away two Americans who have illegally trespassing - America declared war and bombed Panama in the next days. What's wrong in Russia defeding its citizens from being artillery-shelled? Double standards, huh?

Quote

My idea of a Terrorist is some whackjob who would blow anyone and their dog up for not being ocmpletely devoted to their beliefs.

The only REAL mining of word "terrorist" - is one who kills or spreads panic among civil population to distabilize the country. All others meaning are dumbshit, forget about them.
So by this meaning the only terrorist their is comrade Mikheil who was raiding Ossetian villages first by snipers and now by artillery shells.

[Lizzie]

You just don't mess with a big dog's bone. Frankly I hope the UN and everyone else keeps their hands out of this business and let the two beat the crap out of each other. You don't win (In otherwords, 'stop') wars through talk. We talked to the North and South Korean's and their only in a cease fire, not real peace.

[LCPL Carrow]

CodeCat, on 8 Aug 2008, 23:45, said:

But on the other hand, if you figuratively smack their heads together, you're involving yourself in someone else's matters.

True, but if you don't want to do that, then you surrender any right you may have had to bitch about a conflict taking place in the first place.


Dauth, Iraq in one word is...hot. It hits 96 before the sun even comes up. That said, I'm actually pretty stoked about having the opportunity to experience another country and culture though, as well as actually getting to do my job. We went through a seven-month workup to train for this deployment, and it';; be cool to actually get to put the training to use. Plus, we'll be working pretty closely with the Iraqi Police, so there's ample opportunity to learn about their culture beyond the little tidbits that everyone knows.

EDIT: Sorry, back to the matter at hand. Lizzie's right, and I think it very likely that Russia just found an excuse to annex S. Ossetia and to try to re-annex Georgia.

Edited by PFC Carrow, 09 August 2008 - 14:18.

[AZZKIKR]

damn, on my country's national day. i just hope this conflict doesn't escalate. why on earth would georgia want to provoke russia, unless they got some type of MARV like thing. it's just sad that this can happen

edit: why is the usa asking russia to withdraw when it's in the right?

Edited by AZZKIKR, 09 August 2008 - 14:21.

[Dauth]

The province they are fighting over belongs to Georgia, however pro Russian separatists have been in control for over 15 years. Georgia want it back, Russia like the pro Russians. You see the issue.

@Carrow, glad you're enjoying it out there, get a nice tan while you're at it

Edited by Dauth, 09 August 2008 - 14:39.

[Lizzie]

AZZKIKR, on 9 Aug 2008, 10:19, said:

edit: why is the usa asking russia to withdraw when it's in the right?

A bit dangerously close to politics. But yea, I don't get it either. I bet the UN is using the US as their strong-arm again.
There's probably other more stupid reasons too but to go over those would indeed delve too deep in politics and cause a thread lock.

Edited by Lizzie, 09 August 2008 - 14:52.

[Pav:3d]

oh man, its things like these which start world wars

hope all nations tread very carefully with this one

[Dauth]

Changed title, who invaded who is still contestable given the status of South Ossetia.

[AZZKIKR]

unfortunately, armed confrontations will continue to happen, as long as there are nationalists who would at any time ignite both countries into a devastating war. Russia says there is ethnic cleansing, a term so dreaded. Hopefully this doesn't be a second Bosnia

[Thunderstruck]

Yeah, i have had the feeling this whole topic is too close to politics, since war is basically politics at play...

And a World War would deem us all in some trouble. Especially since Russia is involved.

Anyone remember what happened last time we were at war with Russia????

THAT^^^^ is the worst case scenario, but I doubt it will happen. Too many nations are feeling the crunch of economic pressure and the stranglehold of foreign oil. So a World War at this time seems a bit stretched. IF it happens, I do hope that it is a war, and not a war of the dicks. (meaning, Mine is bigger and we will win)

Pardon my way of expressing things, but that's what it is ia a contest of who has the bigger Di**. Well, more or less.

And as for Russia... They will win, but would they risk this if they had nothing to gain, or knew they would lose? What can they gain, and what will they lose? Answer me that.

[Waris]

Carnage18, on 10 Aug 2008, 2:09, said:

Anyone remember what happened last time we were at war with Russia????

Huh? I don't remember an international armed conflict involving Russia as an aggressor up to now, or that we are living in a Red Alert universe.

Edited by Waris, 09 August 2008 - 16:43.