114 replies to this topic

[TehKiller]

He possibly meant the Cold War where super powers could easily intimidate anyone

PS. Waris what about Afghanistan?

[Waris]

Yeah I forgot about that, but the other belligerents were the Mujahideen with the help of the CIA (unsure what other roles they did play except for supplying US-made weaponry). That said they were not really at war with any of the Western nations.

[Thunderstruck]

It was my bad that I didn't get my point across. I do not always word things right. But yes, I meant the Cold War. Lets be honest people... Russia would most certainly have to take on the US if we helped Georgia. And I do not think that NATO/Un would support it so much. The current war is not going well, and USA has lost the trust of alot of its allies. And in my thinking, I am quite sure if it turned out to be USA VS Russia, we would win, so Russia would have 2 choices, back out or use Nuclear weapons. It would take too much out of Russia anyways to mount a decent over-seas attack. And the strain on USA would most likely be equal. It is just an un-imaginable thing, but it may happen.

Fact of the matter is that Russia has some secret agenda. I do not see them using military force the way they currently are for so small a reason. What could Russia possibly want? Does Georgia have oil wells/fields? Gold? There is something that isn't there yet, but we will know the reason soon. I presume when we find out, if there is anything, Russia will coil up and launch a massive strike on Georgia for a quick finish.

[NergiZed]

Well I just read another article on Yahoo. (here)

Some Major Points:

- Apparently 98% of Tskhinvali (the capital of the de-fact but unrecognized state of South Ossetia) is in ruins. Which sucks, probably mostly due to Georgian shelling.

- Georgian Forces have knocked out some 40 Russian Tanks. (Which I find Very impressive).

- There's about 34.000 refugees fleeing the fighting, many into Russia. (Remember, S. Ossetians are Pro-Russian).


I've also heard from another source that the Russians have sent some paratroopers to the area, (and subsequently paradropping them). As well as the Georgian troops slowly trying to route out the Ossetians from the capital and that they are meeting increaingly severe Russian reinforcements.

Edited by NergiZed, 09 August 2008 - 19:25.

[T-34]

I am kind of urked to as why the Russians are using old crappy T-72's and BMP-2's. They have lost 40 tanks? holy crap! wheres the freaking T-80's and T-90's? wheres the BMP3's? wheres the AT-15 teams?? wheres arena? gosh if your gunna fight a way you midas well have a tech advantage...they are using the same stuff as the gregorians ffs.

[Rayburn]

Statements like that should be taken with a grain of salt. I'm not exactly familiar with Russian/Georgian equipment but
whenever one side proudly announces the destruction of x amount of enemy personnel/vehicles, it's often for propaganda purposes.
This whole thing is just a big tragedy and eventually, things'll be worse than they were before the fighting began.

Edited by Rayburn, 09 August 2008 - 19:54.

[Thunderstruck]

Possibly a way to get rid of old and out-dated vehicles?

In anycase, you should all not be surprised that there is more losses, and You should play no favorites in this either, lest someone gets banned over a flame war. Let us all just remain civil and think about what we post. I like this thread, it is active, so lets keep it alive and well.

On another note, 40 tanks is alot. I can imagine Russia is getting mad at there losses, not just of life but money and military equipment. As for Georgia, lets get some more stats on them. If we are to assume anything, we will need more stats for each side in this war so we may predict what the possible outcome(s) is/are.


Here are some images...

Here is an image of Russian vehicles heading into Georgia.


Georgian Military personel searching for :victims" in a building thats been bombed.

Edited by Carnage18, 09 August 2008 - 20:38.

[Jazzie Spurs]

T-34, on 9 Aug 2008, 21:40, said:

I am kind of urked to as why the Russians are using old crappy T-72's and BMP-2's. They have lost 40 tanks? holy crap! wheres the freaking T-80's and T-90's? wheres the BMP3's? wheres the AT-15 teams?? wheres arena? gosh if your gunna fight a way you midas well have a tech advantage...they are using the same stuff as the gregorians ffs.

You're not going to show your best weaponary, to a little adversary, They're wating for a biggest one.

[TehKiller]

Whats even funnier is that the equipment isnt even upgraded its all classic old school stuff. Now if they had modernised (upgraded) T-72's up there the losses would be max. 10 (altough 40 does sount like propaganda if u ask me)

Quote

Mujahideen with the help of the CIA (unsure what other roles they did play except for supplying US-made weaponry)

They were giving them old WW2 weapons (with the exception of M14's)....also they invented something called "terrorism" (as in tactics used by terrorists....also todays Taliban are renamed Mujahideens)

[T-34]

there probably using T-72AV's that dont even have the ATGM system.

[Sicarius]

HeartBreak1, on 9 Aug 2008, 14:43, said:

T-34, on 9 Aug 2008, 21:40, said:

I am kind of urked to as why the Russians are using old crappy T-72's and BMP-2's. They have lost 40 tanks? holy crap! wheres the freaking T-80's and T-90's? wheres the BMP3's? wheres the AT-15 teams?? wheres arena? gosh if your gunna fight a way you midas well have a tech advantage...they are using the same stuff as the gregorians ffs.

You're not going to show your best weaponary, to a little adversary, They're wating for a biggest one.

It's probably more likely that the better equipment is yet to be mobilized, and they are just using whatever was closest until it arrives.

Edited by ~Doomsday~, 10 August 2008 - 00:14.

[Soul]

I've been looking around and it seems a lot of people are on Georgia's side. Me, I'm neutral on the situation.

Edited by Soul, 10 August 2008 - 01:01.

[Eddy01741]

Havn't read any of the posts except for the first one, but this is my two cents.

Georgia wants land from russia because they believe it belongs to them (read, iraq and kuwait, first gulf war, the coalition was the fighting force for kuwait though). So basically, the tiny country of georgia is gonna take on Russia, which is one of the most powerful militaries in teh world (bad training my ass, their sheer numbers could probably beat any european country (given that other euro countries don't join t he fight)). However, USA is siding with Georgia (which is strange because USA usually sides with the one who is being invaded). So basically:

Small country takes on aging military super power, the former rival of that super power (who is also a superpower) supports the small country. Hmm, sounds like WWI, no? The Austro-Hungarian Empire was bullying Serbia, Russia promised to support Serbia. Then the great war begins. Now, USA is russia, Russia is the Austro-Hungarian Empire, and Georgia is Serbia.

Then the alliances come into play. USA has all of Europe on their side, Australia, and possibly some others. Russia probably has former soviet union countries on their side, and most likely china as well.

I mean, it is too early to predict a WWIII, and I doubt it will be WWIII, just pointing out the similarities.

[Sharpnessism]

Won't result in WW3. For one, the U.S. is very unlikely to send military help to Georgia at all. The U.S. will want to avoid a conflict with Russia.

Quote

However, USA is siding with Georgia (which is strange because USA usually sides with the one who is being invaded).

Georgia is pro-west, separatists are pro-Russian. The USA like all other countries will do what best serves their interests. Having Georgia destabilize is bad, considering Georgia wants to join NATO. If the situation was reversed a bit, Georgia being pro-Russian and separatists being pro-west, you would see western media depicting it as a military crack down on civilians, fear/chaos all over with America condemning the actions of the state.

[Eddy01741]

Yeah, I know that US will most likely not send any military help to back georgia (troops in iraq, afghanistan, some other countries, and now fghting a war against a friggin superpower?, yeah....).

[Sicarius]

[update]-
Georgian forces have now pulled out of South Ossetia, and the russians are now in control of the capital Tskhinvali.
clicky

I've also heard that the Georgian Capital Tbilisi has been bombed, but I haven't confirmed this yet.

[Ilves]

Quote

- Georgian Forces have knocked out some 40 Russian Tanks. (Which I find Very impressive).

Very funny. I would rather believe to believe to the guy that says Santa exists, then to Georgians. They have proven to be a generator of random words. First they said that they downed 8 aircraft (Ministry of Defense jocked: why just 8? Why not 800?). Also Saak first said "Georgian forces are controlling all of South Ossetia" and simultaneosly on other there were shown Russian forces in Tshinvali.
Then 3 hours before the war started Saak sweared that Georgian forces are moving back.

GUYS! Do you still believe a guy who lies in every second word? However, if you find his words funky and you like them - you may

Current Russian casualties are 15 peacekeepers with no weapons exept rifles (killed during Geogrian suprise attack by TANKS), 1 Su-27 and 1 Tu-22.
That's ALL. For now.
While Georgia only from Ossetians has lost 12 tanks, some bombers and some other destroyed on the airfields.

Right now the odds are strickly against Mikheil - he's loosing the war in all corners. The best prove of that is that even US diplomats think so

[CommanderJB]

Look, face it, none of us actually know who's lost what because right now the only people who will tell us are each side's military, and we should all be well aware of the interesting effects war can have on true reporting. I imagine Russia has lost vehicles, though I strongly doubt it's forty (and also it's important to remember that just about anything can be called a tank, especially APCs, IFVs, and even trucks if the propaganda machines are working particularly well, without most civilians knowing the difference), as Georgia do seem to have a fair few ATGMs and Su-25s which are the main threats to such units.
Also, it says 1 Tu-22 has been lost. The Blinders were taken out of service in the 1990s, were they not? In which case it would actually be a Tu-22M, which would be a rather more worrying loss. I find myself wondering how the Georgians took it down if that were the case, as they're supposed to be stand-off cruise missile carriers, not close air support.
Regardless, casualties will be high and mounting and this is not a good thing for anyone. This needs to stop, and fast, because Russia has already demonstrated with Grozny what happens when they get going in full force - but it sounds like it's already to late for Tskhinvali. I'm glad to hear Russia has already earmarked aid, because there will be an awful lot of grief and pain when this is over. In fact there already is, but of course no-one cares while the fighting is still going on.

[Ilves]

Quote

The Blinders were taken out of service in the 1990s, were they not?

The destroyed Blinder was making an air recon, so I hardly think there was any serious need to use the more sophisticated Tu-22M for such a role.

Quote

I find myself wondering how the Georgians took it down if that were the case

With the help of Soviet-made S-200 Angara:



That thing pulled to ground a lot of stuff in Arab-Israeli wars and Desert Storm.

Quote

Georgia do seem to have a fair few ATGMs and Su-25s which are the main threats to such units.

All Georgian Su-25 over Ossetia were taken down before tanks entered Tsinhvali.
Russian ministry of Defense is reporting it casualties without exaggerating, and if you listen to Mikheil - then you will have a picture of thousands destroyed Russian tanks, same number of planes and that Georgians tanks are already storming Moscow D

Quote

because Russia has already demonstrated with Grozny what happens when they get going in full force

Storming the city never was an easy task for any side. However, this won't happen as Russia has no interest in occupying Georgia (despite Georgia's willingnes to occupty South Ossetia)

Quote

but it sounds like it's already to late for Tskhinvali.

Yeap, the city of Tskhinvali does not exist anymore.

Edited by AL_Hassan, 10 August 2008 - 07:02.

[Soul]

Hey, look at what I found. Linky.

[NergiZed]

Soul, on 10 Aug 2008, 8:00, said:

Hey, look at what I found. Linky.

US AT WAR WITH RUSSIA THROUGH GEORGIA IN SOUTH OSSETIA. :wahhhhhaa: ZOMGWTFPENED! :wahhhhhaa: *head splode*

[TehKiller]

Bah thats bogus as much as "US invades Iran" news

Quote

Then 3 hours before the war started Saak sweared that Georgian forces are moving back.

Apparently this was a statement in the news: "The military forces of Georgia have pulled back from South Ossetia as soon as Russian tanks entered the capital city."

[CommanderJB]

AL_Hassan, on 10 Aug 2008, 16:59, said:

Quote

The Blinders were taken out of service in the 1990s, were they not?

The destroyed Blinder was making an air recon, so I hardly think there was any serious need to use the more sophisticated Tu-22M for such a role.

Quote

I find myself wondering how the Georgians took it down if that were the case

With the help of Soviet-made S-200 Angara:

*Image*

That thing pulled to ground a lot of stuff in Arab-Israeli wars and Desert Storm.

Quote

Georgia do seem to have a fair few ATGMs and Su-25s which are the main threats to such units.

All Georgian Su-25 over Ossetia were taken down before tanks entered Tsinhvali.
Russian ministry of Defense is reporting it casualties without exaggerating, and if you listen to Mikheil - then you will have a picture of thousands destroyed Russian tanks, same number of planes and that Georgians tanks are already storming Moscow D

Quote

because Russia has already demonstrated with Grozny what happens when they get going in full force

Storming the city never was an easy task for any side. However, this won't happen as Russia has no interest in occupying Georgia (despite Georgia's willingnes to occupty South Ossetia)

Quote

but it sounds like it's already to late for Tskhinvali.

Yeap, the city of Tskhinvali does not exist anymore.

I thank you for the information. I had thought the Blinders had been entirely withdrawn from service, evidently they still have units operating in a reconnaissance role. My mistake.
To be entirely frank I truly believe that the Russian press is giving the war a much fairer and more objective view than the Georgian, and Saakashvili is not someone I believe who has done the right thing and in fact has scuppered several years' hard work, in a totally inadvisable and unnecessary move which has resulted in complete disaster for them and Russia, with possibly (likely in my opinion) over 1000 of the latter's citizens killed and the possibility of a very large proportion of the former's military strength completely removed from existence. That doesn't mean that all the facts are known yet. No matter how accurately each side reports what it believes to be true there will always be factual errors caused by the utter confusion, chaos and need for operational security that signify the opening days of a war in particular, and I would still believe that no-one yet has the full story. No doubt we will see more deaths on both sides before this is over.

Also, it is obvious that this war has effectively nothing to do with the United States no matter how much Georgia might want it to. Any suggestions of the U.S. getting involved in any other way than a diplomatic one, advocating on its allies' behalf, are simply ludicrous. I feel that article had a lot of interesting points to make, but in war no side is blameless.

[General Kirkov]

The US has neither the man power nor the will-power to take on Russia. They are bogged down in Iraq and Afghanistan with huge casualties from third rate powers (if you can call insurgents that).

The Europeans are looking like asses because they promised to protect Georgia. This in turn is like giving PM Putin and President Menshev (Spelling?) carte blanche to destroy the Georgian military and possibly occupy the country while mooning the EU.

[partyzanpaulzy]

1)I really hate what Georgia (in the Middle East) did to South Osetians. Saakashvilli ordered to bombard this area, 2000 people (mostly civilians) died there by Georgian attack, 30000 civilians - women, children, old people ran to North Osetia in Russia from Georgian army while fight-able men (alias separatists) stayed to defend their homes. But I haven't heard/read about any refugees who escaped to Georgia! Even Georgians from South Osetia ran to North Osetia. I have seen yesterday in TV how young Georgian mother with small children escapes and says "How should I told children our people are bombarding us !? "
Saakasvilli should go to prison like Miloshevich (but he died before), but he won't like Albanian terrorists from Kosovo (which has been stolen by terror and Albanian invasion).
North Osetia and Abchkazia deserve indepentence on Georgia!!!
Russia isn't agressor because Georgian forces attacked there peace-keeping bases there. I hope Russian will end this quickly with minimum of dead civilians.

2) I have heard EU's politicians are preparing to support Georgian by force! :chillpill1: :
Oh I am really keen on Tu-160s flying across whole Europe and bombarding cities with H-bombs ... :bigeye:

Quote

President Menshev

somehow like President Medvyedyjev (translation to AE would be somehow like McBear)

Edited by partyzanpaulzy, 10 August 2008 - 13:25.