151 replies to this topic

[Alias]

Just because everyone else in the room is shooting up on heroin doesn't mean you should too.

[WarMenace]

Alright I'm sorry, shouldn't have let that happen.

[Waris]

Shit, should have edited this post instead of quoting it and posting a new one.

Edited by Waris, 31 August 2008 - 21:58.

[Ion Cannon!]

Nems original point was the introduction of a community leader which I still support. How do the staff feel about this?

[Slightly Wonky Robob]

How exactly would that work? (serious question, not sarcastic)

[Waris]

This

Dauth, on 1 Sep 2008, 4:23, said:

All warnings have been handed out with a single member, Nem, receiving a 2 week ban. This is information pertaining to the topic, but the punishments themselves are not for discussion.

On topic, good intention + bad timing = awful results.

Struck. What is really achieved by from this 'experiment' anyway, other than stating the obvious.

Edited by Waris, 31 August 2008 - 21:58.

[WarMenace]

To think I was about to change sides for everything that happened yesterday. Really, that convo I read between PacMan and Nem is exactly why I chose to try to keep the forums the way it was.

Ok, end of discussion, just wanted to say that.

[Whitey]

No, not end of discussion. Now stop talking. You have absolutely nothing to say because you've been here less than a bloody month. I'm getting damned sick of your garbage, especially your power to "end discussions".

-Boidy

[Wizard]

Insomniac!, on 31 Aug 2008, 22:55, said:

Nems original point was the introduction of a community leader which I still support. How do the staff feel about this?

Would there be a problem with issues being raised by PM and MSN if there are any?

I feel a large portion of these issues could've been resolved had we talked to each other more perhaps, prior to going down the roads we have done.

[Nuke General]

WarMenace, on 31 Aug 2008, 18:03, said:

To think I was about to change sides for everything that happened yesterday. Really, that convo I read between PacMan and Nem is exactly why I chose to try to keep the forums the way it was.

Ok, end of discussion, just wanted to say that.

Please, just please, stop talking and shut up...

[Lizzie]

Wizard, on 31 Aug 2008, 18:10, said:

Insomniac!, on 31 Aug 2008, 22:55, said:

Nems original point was the introduction of a community leader which I still support. How do the staff feel about this?

Would there be a problem with issues being raised by PM and MSN if there are any?

I feel a large portion of these issues could've been resolved had we talked to each other more perhaps, prior to going down the roads we have done.

Are you suggesting that these issues not be raised in a public manner? I don't see why they shouldn't be, mainly because these issues involve the staff and such, involve the whole forum.

[Ghostrider]

Insomniac!, on 31 Aug 2008, 17:55, said:

Nems original point was the introduction of a community leader which I still support. How do the staff feel about this?

Aye, he and I figured there would be a Community Leader who would mediate between members and staffers, given the tension sometimes felt between the two. Personally I am 100% on this, as it seems that member-staffer discussions are often one-sided.
The way Nem and I figured this Community Leader would work is that they would be elected by the members (I don't know if there is any way to restrict the election to members with a given number of posts). The elected person would have some staffer power, so they could:
a) See what's going on in the staffer's world, and
b) Relay that information if need be to members who are for some reason against the staff atm.
Thus the Community Leader could resolve issues between the two parties without either party yelling and getting angry with the other.

The other option is for us merely to all get along and share our thoughts openly and freely. This requires listening by both sides, though, and not just "Oh you staff can bite me" and "This has gone on long enough LOCK".

On a separate note, I'm still waiting on an answer for the question below: :???:

Ghostrider, on 31 Aug 2008, 12:51, said:

So I read that you staffers planned the strike, but why? What's the point of leaving of the forums for four days? I it was to prove that yes, we need you here, well we already knew that. If it was because you felt we were "staff bashing", I'd respond by saying no, we were offering our opinions for the better of the forums, and we apologize if it offended you (sincerely).

I'd just like to know the plan behind the madness, 'tis all.

[WarMenace]

Ghostrider, on 31 Aug 2008, 17:29, said:

Insomniac!, on 31 Aug 2008, 17:55, said:

Nems original point was the introduction of a community leader which I still support. How do the staff feel about this?

Aye, he and I figured there would be a Community Leader who would mediate between members and staffers, given the tension sometimes felt between the two. Personally I am 100% on this, as it seems that member-staffer discussions are often one-sided.
The way Nem and I figured this Community Leader would work is that they would be elected by the members (I don't know if there is any way to restrict the election to members with a given number of posts). The elected person would have some staffer power, so they could:
a) See what's going on in the staffer's world, and
b) Relay that information if need be to members who are for some reason against the staff atm.
Thus the Community Leader could resolve issues between the two parties without either party yelling and getting angry with the other.

The other option is for us merely to all get along and share our thoughts openly and freely. This requires listening by both sides, though, and not just "Oh you staff can bite me" and "This has gone on long enough LOCK".

On a separate note, I'm still waiting on an answer for the question below: :???:

Ghostrider, on 31 Aug 2008, 12:51, said:

So I read that you staffers planned the strike, but why? What's the point of leaving of the forums for four days? I it was to prove that yes, we need you here, well we already knew that. If it was because you felt we were "staff bashing", I'd respond by saying no, we were offering our opinions for the better of the forums, and we apologize if it offended you (sincerely).

I'd just like to know the plan behind the madness, 'tis all.

Well, the leadership really won't be needed, if that's the plan about the whole thing, why don't you just ask the admins instead of using this? They would've agreed.

[Pav:3d]

Well that was a crazy couple o hours

talk about over reacting *feels silly*

Edited by P4v3d, 31 August 2008 - 22:39.

[Ion Cannon!]

The community leader would also keep tabs on what is happening with the community and try to stimulate it. Although I am not sure how. One point nem brought up was the time needed to get an FTP for his mod, maybe this could be another job the community leader could do, to cut back on the time taken for an FTP to be granted.

@WarMenace. We don't want to rule anything, will you please either read what we are writing about properly or not post..

Edited by Insomniac!, 31 August 2008 - 22:52.

[AZZKIKR]

Thank god it ended.

[Eddy01741]

Like I said before, if Alias hadn't started his topic, the whole staffer/mod day off/strike wouldn't have mattered at all. FIrst of all, nobody would have noticed since they weren't provoked into basically monitoring the staff/mods, secondly, nobody is just going to make a super political thread with tons of bashing to see if the mods were there.

Basically, if Alias hadn't made his topic, your strike wouldn't have mattered at all, nobody would have gave a shit. Now, since alias's topic did start, tempers rose and people got out of control, funny that you should just lurk around doing nothing even though you know that disaster would happen.

I challenge the administrators, staffers, and gmods, to take another random day off, just any day you choose SO LONG AS there are no hot topic discussions like Alias's, that way, people won't realize that you were gone that whole day, and my guess is that the community would be just fine.

[Wizard]

Lizzie, on 31 Aug 2008, 23:29, said:

Wizard, on 31 Aug 2008, 18:10, said:

Insomniac!, on 31 Aug 2008, 22:55, said:

Nems original point was the introduction of a community leader which I still support. How do the staff feel about this?

Would there be a problem with issues being raised by PM and MSN if there are any?

I feel a large portion of these issues could've been resolved had we talked to each other more perhaps, prior to going down the roads we have done.

Are you suggesting that these issues not be raised in a public manner? I don't see why they shouldn't be, mainly because these issues involve the staff and such, involve the whole forum.

No. That isn't what I am suggesting.

I am suggesting that there is a line in the sand here atm.

Staff Team
----------------
Everyone else

We have rules to enforce. That is our job. Therefore you see us as bad. Whether it is due to inactivity, personality, inexperience, or that you simply don't agree with us at times you (royal not personal meaning) see us as bad. However, we aren't. Infact I know that all of the Staff here are some of the nicest people I have met over the internet and have taken time to talk to. As are some of the members that I have done the same with. Each have their quirks, granted, but if we each know where the other comes from then we can understand the logic behind it. However, what happens on the forum isn't going to be that easy to interpret. It never is. So we all read different things into each post and as there are so many people involved in one topic the meanings become way off target. We all "try" to explain locky and such, sometimes successfully, others not (*recent hands up from me on that one*) but it will never been seen in the light we mean it. If you know us the better you may get it.

Therefore, if there are particular issues that you want to discuss regarding moderation then you can PM or MSN us to discuss it. If I have locked your post I can explain it. If someone has been rude than perhaps their POV is that they haven't. IMHO a community leader (as discussed) won't solve those issues.

Also, there are things that are discussed inside of the hidden areas that we don't want everyone to be aware of (warnings etc). It would require large amounts of work to segregate what is there from new things to enable a community leader to access somewhere else. Therefore if a leader were to be appointed it would have to be someone everyone on the staff team trusted, as it is now, and therefore most likely someone the membership wouldn't.

However, a community leader could be appointed, but really my point is, there are better ways and means to discuss it. I have no trouble answering questions over MSN or PM to any issue you want to raise.

The above is only "my" opinion and not official nor do I know if it is shared by any other staffing members.

Ghostrider, on 31 Aug 2008, 23:29, said:

On a separate note, I'm still waiting on an answer for the question below: :???:

Ghostrider, on 31 Aug 2008, 12:51, said:

So I read that you staffers planned the strike, but why? What's the point of leaving of the forums for four days? If it was to prove that yes, we need you here, well we already knew that. If it was because you felt we were "staff bashing", I'd respond by saying no, we were offering our opinions for the better of the forums, and we apologize if it offended you (sincerely).

I'd just like to know the plan behind the madness, 'tis all.

The general consensus from the Staff team, all of them btw, was that in recent times there has been undue criticism. The timing of everything has made this look like it was a response to what Alias posted. I can assure you that it wasn't. It was in fact, a reaction to the rather unnecessary war of words over the signature issue shortly before and an ongoing impression we had all received in various ways. It was proactive and not reactive.

We can take criticism, however it isn't a flawless system and putting things into practice in a team spanning thousands of miles, several timezones and real life responsibilities isn't as straightforward as "we say you suck", "ok we fix it". I am not saying that is what you have said, it's just a crap analogy. It takes time to do things and no, no amount of forum wars will make that different. But criticism does hurt, no matter what and we did feel a lot, prior to this weekends events, may have been rather undue.

PS for the future could we all please refer to the Gmods + Staff + Admins as the Moderating Team? It is rather confusing to keep hearing that me, Bob, Dauth and Overdose are the reason for the forum ills.

Insomniac!, on 31 Aug 2008, 23:51, said:

The community leader would also keep tabs on what is happening with the community and try to stimulate it. Although I am not sure how. One point nem brought up was the time needed to get an FTP for his mod, maybe this could be another job the community leader could do, to cut back on the time taken for an FTP to be granted.

In order to arrange the FTP he would need Admin access. This will simply not be given out to those the Admins do not trust with that all knowing power, no matter how much the community wants it. Accounts get hacked etc. They want to categorically know, though their own choice that an Admin can be trusted with that power. In this case the FTP issue was down to rather unfortunate timing circumstances. People have complained about the number of Admins we have, but even still things can get missed due to RL time constraints.

[Eddy01741]

Intriguing that you have parts of the forums like discussing member warnings in the private areas of the forums. It makes me (and most others) wonder how much we are being "monitored" by people, I'm almost scared to see what's been talked about me....

Anyways, it's just those things that discomfort the forum members, you must remember that this is a forum, not real life. Some of us don't feel comfortable being monitored like that. Quite simply, you know too much and we know too little, so the seeds of conflict are sown.

[Ion Cannon!]

Its their job to monitor us, if they discussed warnings in public forums the havoc that would ensue would make yesterday look like a peace conference. In a way every member monitors one another, thats how we build up perceptions of one another. If person A keeps making a post of a certain type it is likely I will then associate that person with that type of post.

[Wizard]

Eddy01741, on 1 Sep 2008, 0:53, said:

Intriguing that you have parts of the forums like discussing member warnings in the private areas of the forums. It makes me (and most others) wonder how much we are being "monitored" by people, I'm almost scared to see what's been talked about me....

Anyways, it's just those things that discomfort the forum members, you must remember that this is a forum, not real life. Some of us don't feel comfortable being monitored like that. Quite simply, you know too much and we know too little, so the seeds of conflict are sown.

This has been the way of things since time and memorial. I am not aware that this is the first time it has been made known. As Ion just pointed out, there is no alternative.

Edited by Wizard, 31 August 2008 - 23:58.

[Ghostrider]

Thanks for the reply, Wizard... it's good to hear more of the staffers moderators (sorry, I'm still a forum noob) side of the story.

[Eddy01741]

Wizard, on 31 Aug 2008, 19:57, said:

Eddy01741, on 1 Sep 2008, 0:53, said:

Intriguing that you have parts of the forums like discussing member warnings in the private areas of the forums. It makes me (and most others) wonder how much we are being "monitored" by people, I'm almost scared to see what's been talked about me....

Anyways, it's just those things that discomfort the forum members, you must remember that this is a forum, not real life. Some of us don't feel comfortable being monitored like that. Quite simply, you know too much and we know too little, so the seeds of conflict are sown.

This has been the way of things since time and memorial. I am not aware that this is the first time it has been made known. As Ion just pointed out, there is no alternative.

Yes, but before it wasn't that strikingly obvious that we, each and every one of us non moderating team members, are being watched so closely. It's as annoying as the fact that if I flew from where I am (USA) to Iraq or Afghanistan, the CIA/FBI would instantly have a file on me for suspicion even if i'm just a high school kid. According to my spanish teacher, us as a class going to Puerto Rico likely already got us a file in the CIA/FBI.

Everybody gets a bit paranoid like that. The reason being that in real life, we can say a lot of what we want (at least to our friends, maybe not against the government) and nobody would care, but on this forum, it seems like everything we say, everything we do, is being monitored.

[WarMenace]

Insomniac!, on 31 Aug 2008, 17:51, said:

The community leader would also keep tabs on what is happening with the community and try to stimulate it. Although I am not sure how. One point nem brought up was the time needed to get an FTP for his mod, maybe this could be another job the community leader could do, to cut back on the time taken for an FTP to be granted.

@WarMenace. We don't want to rule anything, will you please either read what we are writing about properly or not post..

Where in this topic did I say you were going to rule anything? I didn't say that, all I said was that whole "Temporary Leadership" thread really ain't needed if they had only asked the admins about the staff and all, I wasn't talking about any thing "governmental".

[Wizard]

We read every post, that goes without saying, that is our job. We can't moderate without it. However, we only discuss issues that need discussing. We don't have tick lists for each of you and report that we have read everything you have done. We merely discuss issues that should be raised. NOTHING more.

@ Warmenace, you must've suffered enough direct posts now, perhaps failing to respond to all of them may calm what is already a situation way in advance of where we all want it to be. Your opinions are always valid, but in this circumstance perhaps discretion is the better part of valour?

Edited by Wizard, 01 September 2008 - 00:13.