58 replies to this topic

[Dauth]

After a lengthy discussion process between Staff and Admins, and following on from the feeling we have received from the forum in general, we have decided, albeit on a trail basis, to create a new forum for the discussion of politics. Everyone knows that this has been a thorny issue in the past and due to some concerns from everybody in the moderating team, we have concluded that the new forum will be run differently.

To start with, it will be a read only forum to everyone, but in order to post in this new area members will be required to complete an application. The reason being is that we want only those with a genuine interest in discussing the subject to be able to post here. Having it open to everyone caused arguments and insults that were not necessary. We are hoping that those that apply are those that enjoy the debate and can do so sensibly.

The forum will be headed up by Dauth and Wizard as the active moderators and they will be the principle contacts for applications, although this forum will still be part of the duties of other Staff & Admin. Global Moderators will not be required to apply for posting rights, members who are able to post will not be allowed to create topics. Dauth and Wizard should be PM'd with the subject of your topic and (dependent on their decision) they will start it off for you. The success of the forum will be reviewed and if running smoothly then we may consider allowing those with access to post their own topics, but only after we are satisfied that this won't cause problems.

Here is the list of new rules that will be applied in the new Politics Forum:

Quote

• There will be no insulting, making fun, bashing, flaming, attacks or jokes at the expense of any member, group, party, religion, cult, belief, lifestyle or ideology.
  
• If a moderator posts instructions, failure to follow that instruction will result in a warning.
  
• There is to be no "this country is better than that country because" posts.
  
• Disagreement with someone else can be expressed without resorting to insults or bashing, to do so will earn a warning.
  
• No contradictions without evidence, or at least a detailed explanation.
  
• If you are going to discuss (argue) a point you must actually do so. Raising a question on someone else's post is not a discussion.
  
• Everyone is entitled their opinions, do not attempt to change their mind.
  
• You opinions are opinions and not gospel, do not post as if they are.
  
• Moderators decisions are final. By posting in this area you accept that and thread may be locked without warning or recourse.
  
• Only moderators may post topics, for a topic to be opened PM a single staff+ with the opening post and topic title. Applying to multiple staff+ may cause loss of posting rights
  
• The is a five minute flood control on this board, this is not open for discussion.

Breaking a bold rule will instantly and permanently remove all rights to post in the political area.
Breaking an italic rule will resort in a strike and a 14 day posting right removal in the political area, two strikes and posting rights will be removed permanently.
Breaking a normal text rule incurs a verbal warning, two verbal warnings equal a strike.
Any active warning on the main boards immediately removes posting rights to the Politics Forums, however irrelevant that warning maybe (sig issues etc).

These rules have been created to make sure that discussions are specifically about politics. We have had rules before which were not adhered to and this is an attempt to remind everyone who applies and posts why they are there.

All Applicants should PM their requests to Dauth or Wizard, however no application will be considered if the member has less than 500 posts. Application forms to be posted depending on the result of this thread.

Please bear in mind that this is a trial and that we will be carefully monitoring both the popularity of the topics and the content to ensure it is as it should be. Should things not work out smoothly then we will remove the forum and everything will go back to the way it was.

So now you have the news, what are your views? Is this something you actually want to to have back on the board? If it is, would you consider applying and if so are you happy enough to accept the rules? There really isn't any point in us going to the trouble of creating this forum if no one wants it.

[Alias]

Good to see you guys listened to another of my points.

Brilliant. (Y)

[Chyros]

Should be interesting, as long as a watchful eye is kept on this .

[CommanderJB]

Fantastic! Let's hope people use this in the spirit it was intended and don't give you a reason to revoke it. My many thanks guys, this should be a very interesting and hopefully productive addition to life on the board, and with any luck these rules will keep it on track. Thanks again.
Edit - oh, and, umm, where is this forum? I take it it isn't actually up yet?

Edited by CommanderJB, 13 September 2008 - 12:52.

[Wizard]

It won't be up for a while. We have "other" things to do first.

[CommanderJB]

Ah, I see. A while having now been defined as, say, oh I don't know, approximately 18 days possibly?

[Wizard]

Probably a touch longer.

[Dauth]

Yes we should state, that due to the applications process and the permissions changes required, this Political Area is scheduled to open about two weeks after Ground Zero.

Edited by Dauth, 13 September 2008 - 13:01.

[nip]

Dauth, on 13 Sep 2008, 14:26, said:

Is this something you actually want to to have back on the board? If it is, would you consider applying and if so are you happy enough to accept the rules?

Yes to all.

[Brad]

Dauth, on 13 Sep 2008, 13:26, said:

All Applicants should PM their requests to Dauth or Wizard, however no application will be considered if the member has less than 500 posts. Application forms to be posted depending on the result of this thread.

Yay, somthing else for me to look forward to when i reach 500+posts

[Libains]

Looking forward to this as much as Ground Zero already. I, for sure, will be getting in on the act if there are enough others.

[logical2u]

I for one have a complaint on this topic, predominantly due to the 500+ post limitations on the topic creation scheme.

I love political/philosophical discussions as much as the next guy but I don't have the motivation or the creative posting to bump my post count over the five-hundred mark. While I would be able to increase my post count via discussions in the political forum, and I typically don't have that many brilliant topic ideas anyways, I still feel like it's partially discriminatory against members such as myself - surely a 'new' member could have as many good ideas for a political topic as a more experienced poster? And if the mods are reviewing each and every PM they receive anyways surely post-count won't impact their initial perception of the topic's potential, but rather their willingness to actually post it?

EG: What if *insert political leader here* joined E-studios and wanted to start a debate on *insert relevant topic here*? He would be instantly declined based on his "newbiness" even if the topic was completely original or 'the best thing on E-studios since *insert sliced bread esque thing here*'?
What sort of impression would we be giving, would it be completely fair, and would the quality of topics coming from more experienced members be able to make up for the lack of topics on *insert relevant topic here*?

Anyways those are my 2 massive paragraphs on the topic.

Oh, and I'd like to see harsher penalties on topic hijacking in the political forum - given that only mods can make threads, people who don't get their threads made may try to push discussion in other threads towards their own thread ideas.

EG: A poster applies for a debate on gun-control, but is denied. In a topic on the Right to Bear Arms, poster steers discussion towards gun-control - not exactly on topic, but similar enough that it might be possible to 'get away with'. What sort of action would be taken?

[Libains]

logical2u, on 13 Sep 2008, 15:05, said:

I for one have a complaint on this topic, predominantly due to the 500+ post limitations on the topic creation scheme.

I love political/philosophical discussions as much as the next guy but I don't have the motivation or the creative posting to bump my post count over the five-hundred mark. While I would be able to increase my post count via discussions in the political forum, and I typically don't have that many brilliant topic ideas anyways, I still feel like it's partially discriminatory against members such as myself - surely a 'new' member could have as many good ideas for a political topic as a more experienced poster? And if the mods are reviewing each and every PM they receive anyways surely post-count won't impact their initial perception of the topic's potential, but rather their willingness to actually post it?

For me I don't as much see it as a discrimination, more as a means of certifying that the person has proven that they are capable of making informed posts, as well as allowing staff to see their posting history, and as such from which determine how they would act in the forum - this is the internet and sadly character can't be determined in five minutes after first meeting them unlike in RL.

Quote

Oh, and I'd like to see harsher penalties on topic hijacking in the political forum - given that only mods can make threads, people who don't get their threads made may try to push discussion in other threads towards their own thread ideas.

I'd agree with that statement, as this will be a key area, at least to begin with, and it's certainly necessary that topics continue to go in the same direction instead of being steered off.

[Wizard]

AjPod, on 13 Sep 2008, 15:13, said:

logical2u, on 13 Sep 2008, 15:05, said:

I for one have a complaint on this topic, predominantly due to the 500+ post limitations on the topic creation scheme.

I love political/philosophical discussions as much as the next guy but I don't have the motivation or the creative posting to bump my post count over the five-hundred mark. While I would be able to increase my post count via discussions in the political forum, and I typically don't have that many brilliant topic ideas anyways, I still feel like it's partially discriminatory against members such as myself - surely a 'new' member could have as many good ideas for a political topic as a more experienced poster? And if the mods are reviewing each and every PM they receive anyways surely post-count won't impact their initial perception of the topic's potential, but rather their willingness to actually post it?

For me I don't as much see it as a discrimination, more as a means of certifying that the person has proven that they are capable of making informed posts, as well as allowing staff to see their posting history, and as such from which determine how they would act in the forum - this is the internet and sadly character can't be determined in five minutes after first meeting them unlike in RL.

This man wins the internet.

It is simply because we don't know you or know how you post. Once we do then it's not a problem. We will be reviewing posting histories with applications. But if you haven't got to 500 then really you haven't made a massive contribution to the forum for us to ascertain anything about you. We knew that this would an issue for those under 500 but after what happened the last time, everyone will have to live with it. Sorry.

[Dauth]

I will also point out that posts in the Political Area will not increase post count.

[Soul]

Interesting idea, hope it goes well unlike last time .

[Wizard]

Soul, on 13 Sep 2008, 16:38, said:

Interesting idea, hope it goes well unlike last time .

Well we are really hoping it does. It is up to all of us to make it work. I don't think any of us will try again to get it back if this fails.

[E.V.E.]

Indeed.

I hope this will work better this time.

- E.V.E.

[JJ]

Politics eh? I can finally spread the word how shit is the current Malaysian government.

[Sharpnessism]

Very good idea.

[Sicarius]

AARRRGHHH!!!

That means I will probably miss out on the Georgia/Russia issue, as well as not one, but two elections (one that I can officially vote in). >_<

It took MONTHS just to get too 100 posts.

Edited by ~Doomsday~, 13 September 2008 - 18:51.

[Nid]

An excellent addition to the forum. I myself, however, will not be applying. Politics never has been my strong point, and is not a personal particular interest for discussion.

[Waris]

While I pretty muh agree with everything I have to side with logical2u in his issue. Sure, he barely have 300+ post count but it doesn't do justice to the level of maturity he showed in his posts. I think his application must be considered because of this, and you guys cannot claim to not know enough of him as while being not publicly active, he has been here for longer than most of the current Staff.

[Dauth]

Waris, on 13 Sep 2008, 20:10, said:

While I pretty muh agree with everything I have to side with logical2u in his issue. Sure, he barely have 300+ post count but it doesn't do justice to the level of maturity he showed in his posts. I think his application must be considered because of this, and you guys cannot claim to not know enough of him as while being not publicly active, he has been here for longer than most of the current Staff.

Here is the dilemma, if we allow him to apply (and enter) then every Thomas, Richard and Harold will want to join in and we will be stuck with 'he has X posts how come he can?'. It is unfortunate that under the proposed rules Logical2u is not allowed to apply. If and only if exceptions are made they will be made upon decisions by either the PA leaders or the moderating team as a whole, it is possible the rules may be refined to allow a lower post count in light of time on the forum, however with a posts per day of 0.36 how are Wizard and I meant to judge someone's current behaviour? We are the ones who will carry the can if the rules don't work and it goes tits up, therefore we will err on the side of caution.

[Waris]

Thomas, Richard and Harold may complain about his lower postcount but I'm sure they are aware of the fact that logical2u has been involved in the forum for 2 and a half years, unlike themselves.