58 replies to this topic

[Houdini]

it's strange that there hasn't been much news covering this; I thought this would be front page, but all I've seen is a 1min article on ITV at ten talking a bit about it.

[Shirou]

First thing that came to mind!



To add to this, yesterday in the Netherlands there was an Irany fellow threatening to jump off a bridge...

An impatient crowd shouted at him to 'jump' and 'move on', because of stated reasons 'do you know how much money this costs?'. The bridge (over a river) was blocked all day.

This however, is even more sickening. And Dauth, you can't dismiss depression because, the causes of it may be inside the mind, people inside a depression are also.. physically defective. This means, you can't fully blame their inability to get out of it on themselves. Depression evolves into some sort of brain malfunctioning, which leads to things like this.

Dismissal of physical or even mental disorders is something I dislike to hear. It's not a medical waste of time if so many have the same disorder. No, then it is actually just the thing that health care should focus on.

Edited by Aftershock, 03 October 2008 - 20:34.

[Dauth]

About 15% have the disorder the rest are freeloaders. I get angry at not only me but other people, and guess what, without Doctor's appointments or drugs, they get better. Either its faked or I am the atheist second coming of Jesus.

Good people in the crowd thought logically, should he turn into a red stain at 8am it costs a lot less to them and everyone else than if he waits until 8pm.

[Chyros]

Dauth, on 4 Oct 2008, 0:08, said:

About 15% have the disorder the rest are freeloaders. I get angry at not only me but other people, and guess what, without Doctor's appointments or drugs, they get better. Either its faked or I am the atheist second coming of Jesus.

Good people in the crowd thought logically, should he turn into a red stain at 8am it costs a lot less to them and everyone else than if he waits until 8pm.

We are talking about people's lives here. I'm not claiming that every moaning human being should be cuddled but cheering them on when they are about to kill themselves is a different thing. There's some things you just don't do and that is one of them IMO.

Edited by Chyros, 03 October 2008 - 23:04.

[Dauth]

Chyros, on 4 Oct 2008, 0:03, said:

We are talking about people's lives here. I'm not claiming that every moaning human being should be cuddled but cheering them on when they are about to kill themselves is a different thing. There's some things you just don't do and that is one of them IMO.

I won't ever say jump, I will say make your mind up. The rest of society should not be held hostage to the emotions of unstable people. They should be dealt with swiftly, either by jumping or no longer endangering anyone else. Endangering because a human body from over about 10ft is pretty damn lethal to anyone underneath.

[Brad]

That simple statment, 'make up your mind' is often seen as a term for 'Hurry up and jump dammit'. Now i respect your opinion, but i belive you are going to the extreeme, now imagine that this person was depressed for complicated reasons, not the simple sadnes people are acustomed to when they hear the word depressed, don't you think the situation should be taken lightly? I know you belive your not, but i belive you side with the people who say jump, or get on with it, If you care moe about money and time than people's lives then you need to wake up and smell the air, overpopulation may be a problem, but i offer you a challenge: Just think about all the people this affects, just think of thats person's mother, father (assuming they have both), how long can you think about them?


All in all, if you conisder money and time to be more important than a human life....well, whats wrong?

edit: bah typos D:

Edited by Tactical_person, 03 October 2008 - 23:31.

[Dauth]

Tactical_person, on 4 Oct 2008, 0:31, said:

That simple statment, 'make up your mind' is often seen as a term for 'Hurry up and jump dammit'. Now i respect your opinion, but i belive you are going to the extreeme, now imagine that this person was depressed for complicated reasons, not the simple sadnes people are acustomed to when they hear the word depressed, don't you think the situation should be taken lightly? I know you belive your not, but i belive you side with the people who say jump, or get on with it, If you care moe about money and time than people's lives then you need to wake up and smell the air, overpopulation may be a problem, but i offer you a challenge: Just think about all the people this affects, just think of thats person's mother, father (assuming they have both), how long can you think about them?


All in all, if you conisder money and time to be more important than a human life....well, whats wrong?

If I wanted to say hurry up an jump I would say it. I am direct, I do not hide behind words because I never bothered with the social skills required to do so. If someone is truly clinically depressed then there are medical facilities. I am willing to bet the properly depressed people don't do the cry for help crap like your jumper here.

I never denied I said 'get on with it' Like I said I meant either jump off or climb down, you sitting there is a waste of everyone's time, and as you know time = money.

I am not thinking of the family/friends, that is not my job, thinking of the people around them is the job of the person on the bridge. BTW I have trained myself to think, so setting that sort of challenge is not an issue.

How much would you spend on a serial rapist who wanted to kill themself? Would we at least put down a crash mat (won't make any difference). Or a University graduate, do they get the helicopter with winch man lowered to her? The old/young? the infirm/able? Every time this happens the country looses Millions, If we lock up the Thames bridges you could start ruining business up and downstream and putting people who aren't making a nuisance of themselves out of work. All because someone is indecisive.

Time and money are more important, we run on them, you're just not thinking things through past the obvious single human issue.

[Wizard]

Dauth, on 4 Oct 2008, 0:12, said:

Chyros, on 4 Oct 2008, 0:03, said:

We are talking about people's lives here. I'm not claiming that every moaning human being should be cuddled but cheering them on when they are about to kill themselves is a different thing. There's some things you just don't do and that is one of them IMO.

I won't ever say jump, I will say make your mind up. The rest of society should not be held hostage to the emotions of unstable people. They should be dealt with swiftly, either by jumping or no longer endangering anyone else. Endangering because a human body from over about 10ft is pretty damn lethal to anyone underneath.

I agree with Dauth on this one. I have a friend who committed suicide, someone I was very close to. There is a topic in here on this but I won't dredge it up. But still I have to agree with him. Most of these things are cries for help. Sorry but there are better ways. My friend took the route of not making a pathetic empty gesture and got on with it. I personally see this as more noble than standing on the top of a building and making a scene. There are people available, to everyone in society, if you are in a situation that brings you close to this. Jumping is a very poor way of bringing the attention to you when there are several alternatives that are much more effective and less attention whoring.

[Brad]

We may run on money and time yes, and i understand what your saying, also, i do doubt that i would think twice about a rapist that commited suicide, but the topic is a person, who we do not know a thing about, that got abused verbally in a serious situation, which caused him his life. Is that not wrong? Is that not somthing the wold should stop and think 'What is wrong here'.

we need to take care of the real depressed people, not the fakers as you stated before.

Yes i do see you point as well that the person on top of the building commiting suicide should've taken a better alternative, but i do not belive that verbally abusing him is the solution, the police would've taken him, tried to sort out the problem, with no-body the wiser. I may agee on some of your points, but some are a little (for a lack of a better word) Harsh.

[Dauth]

Tactical_person, on 4 Oct 2008, 1:03, said:

We may run on money and time yes, and i understand what your saying, also, i do doubt that i would think twice about a rapist that commited suicide, but the topic is a person, who we do not know a thing about, that got abused verbally in a serious situation, which caused him his life. Is that not wrong? Is that not somthing the wold should stop and think 'What is wrong here'.

Are you thinking we should shout "don't jump", "you're needed" or "I don't want to clean you up"? What about the second time? Or the tenth? When do we say "oh ffs just stop pissing about and jump"? Few other creatures kill themselves, but due to the inhibition of a set of morals we can't breed this notion out of the species. Now that is something wrong with society.

Quote

we need to take care of the real depressed people, not the fakers as you stated before.

Couldn't agree more, you find them. If we remove the fakers, we leave the real sufferers and they can be treated.

Quote

Yes i do see you point as well that the person on top of the building commiting suicide should've taken a better alternative, but i do not belive that verbally abusing him is the solution, the police would've taken him, tried to sort out the problem, with no-body the wiser. I may agee on some of your points, but some are a little (for a lack of a better word) Harsh.

How about instructions on how to kill yourself properly? None of this fucking about with failures, just a guaranteed instant kill.

I am harsh, I am a cold logical person. I do not see this as a personality fault, I have tons but being logical isn't one.

[Brad]

Quote

Are you thinking we should shout "don't jump", "you're needed" or "I don't want to clean you up"? What about the second time? Or the tenth? When do we say "oh ffs just stop pissing about and jump"? Few other creatures kill themselves, but due to the inhibition of a set of morals we can't breed this notion out of the species. Now that is something wrong with society.

I can't say i agree with you, but i can neither disagree, i am going to stay neutral on this one, as this is somthing that requires thought on my part, and i am tired.

Quote

Couldn't agree more, you find them. If we remove the fakers, we leave the real sufferers and they can be treated.

I'm glad that agree, but finding them is the hard part, which is why there are many out there

Quote

How about instructions on how to kill yourself properly? None of this fucking about with failures, just a guaranteed instant kill.

I am harsh, I am a cold logical person. I do not see this as a personality fault, I have tons but being logical isn't one.

Hmm, i see your point, but if you stay on the side of being logical, how can you see the human side of it, how can you imagine yourself in the same situation, with these people shouting these things as you, how can you imagine yourself, as another person, being told to stop being childish, make up your mind and jump already?

And many people would be envious of those personality qualities

Edit: also, don't bother with my arguments if they don't make sense, i am not as experienced when it comes to arguing, and i'm tired..

Edited by Tactical_person, 04 October 2008 - 00:22.

[Dauth]

Tactical_person, on 4 Oct 2008, 1:20, said:

Hmm, i see your point, but if you stay on the side of being logical, how can you see the human side of it, how can you imagine yourself in the same situation, with these people shouting these things as you, how can you imagine yourself, as another person, being told to stop being childish, make up your mind and jump already?

And many people would be envious of those personality qualities

I am mentally strong enough to never be in this situation. I don't get manipulated by crowds, hell for fun I like to manipulate the thinking patterns of the people I talk to. I am smart enough to see the long term results of things.

People don't need to be envious, all they need is an application of will and they can develop the qualities described.

[Chyros]

Wizard, on 4 Oct 2008, 1:55, said:

Dauth, on 4 Oct 2008, 0:12, said:

Chyros, on 4 Oct 2008, 0:03, said:

We are talking about people's lives here. I'm not claiming that every moaning human being should be cuddled but cheering them on when they are about to kill themselves is a different thing. There's some things you just don't do and that is one of them IMO.

I won't ever say jump, I will say make your mind up. The rest of society should not be held hostage to the emotions of unstable people. They should be dealt with swiftly, either by jumping or no longer endangering anyone else. Endangering because a human body from over about 10ft is pretty damn lethal to anyone underneath.

I agree with Dauth on this one. I have a friend who committed suicide, someone I was very close to. There is a topic in here on this but I won't dredge it up. But still I have to agree with him. Most of these things are cries for help. Sorry but there are better ways. My friend took the route of not making a pathetic empty gesture and got on with it. I personally see this as more noble than standing on the top of a building and making a scene. There are people available, to everyone in society, if you are in a situation that brings you close to this. Jumping is a very poor way of bringing the attention to you when there are several alternatives that are much more effective and less attention whoring.

We're getting slightly off-topic here, I think. The OP wasn't so much about the jumper as it was about the people cheering.

I have a very close friend who got so depressed he almost committed suicide twice. I almost had to slap it out of him that he couldn't just do that. It doesn't feel particularly good knowing that your friend could jump in front of a train any day. Now not that he was making a public spectacle of it, but imagine he'd be your friend and people would cheer him on to do it, how would you feel about them?

[Dauth]

Chyros, on 4 Oct 2008, 1:27, said:

I have a very close friend who got so depressed he almost committed suicide twice. I almost had to slap it out of him that he couldn't just do that. It doesn't feel particularly good knowing that your friend could jump in front of a train any day. Now not that he was making a public spectacle of it, but imagine he'd be your friend and people would cheer him on to do it, how would you feel about them?

Topics develop, this is fine imo.

Their choice, always their choice. I believe in freedom, yes it would be a shame and I'm sure some people would hate me. I know personal isn't important. What is right is right, everything else is emotions in the way. I already said, if I had to talk to a friend I'd say just this. "Are you sure?" "Well then, get on with it, I'm off, this is your choice not mine."

[Brad]

Cold, hard, but honest words.

But i still belive that people should approach this type of situation with understanding, and not cold, hard words, i realize that may be some people's way of dealing with it, but the fact remains that around half of the people who would have that said to them, would think it's a way of telling them to do it.

Edit: bah typos

Edited by Tactical_person, 04 October 2008 - 00:35.

[Dauth]

Tactical_person, on 4 Oct 2008, 1:35, said:

But i still belive that people should approach this type of situation with understanding, and not cold, hard words, i realize that may be some people's way of dealing with it, but the fact remains that around half of the people who would have that said to them, would think it's a way of telling them to do it.

You can only get full understanding from someone who has made both decisions before and since that precludes death, you're a little out of luck.

[Ion Cannon!]

The person in question chose to climb up onto that building, he could have killed himself out of the way in a private environment. He chose not to. The reasons listed for his *Depression* may not be the full picture, but the person is obviously weak minded if they consider taking their own life because they split up with a girl. Your 17 for crying out loud, she most likely will not be the love of your life. Therefore the only logical reason I can think of for taking his life in such a way is for attention. As others have previously posted there are much better ways to deal with problems like this, wether the reasons be just or not. Personally I feel nothing is enough to warrant taking your own life except chronic illness which will cause you to suffer for many years. In that situation I can understand it, but thats euthanasia. And thats another topic.

I have personal experience in dealing with unstable people. I had a friend who wanted to kill himself for what I felt was no good reason. I prevented him from doing so, but deep down I wonder if he wanted me to stop him, why else would he invite me around? He could have easily done it while I wasn't there. While the logical response would have been to let him kill himself, afterall if he has such a weak mind why should he continue to live? I put my personal feelings over logic, mainly because he had not always been this way. Now I am glad to say he is back to his old self and I shall never regret what I did. He may blame me in the future for bad things that may happen to him and he is entitled to that, if it wasn't for me he wouldn't be here anymore. And I stand by my actions.

Logically what I did was wrong, but socially is what I did right or wrong? I did what I felt was right in my heart, even though my brain was telling me otherwise.

Edited by Insomniac!, 04 October 2008 - 00:50.

[Chyros]

Insomniac!, on 4 Oct 2008, 2:49, said:

Personally I feel nothing is enough to warrant taking your own life except chronic illness which will cause you to suffer for many years. In that situation I can understand it, but thats euthanasia. And thats another topic.

Exactly my thoughts.

Insomniac!, on 4 Oct 2008, 2:49, said:

I have personal experience in dealing with unstable people. I had a friend who wanted to kill himself for what I felt was no good reason. I prevented him from doing so, but deep down I wonder if he wanted me to stop him, why else would he invite me around? He could have easily done it while I wasn't there. While the logical response would have been to let him kill himself, afterall if he has such a weak mind why should he continue to live? I put my personal feelings over logic, mainly because he had not always been this way. Now I am glad to say he is back to his old self and I shall never regret what I did. He may blame me in the future for bad things that may happen to him and he is entitled to that, if it wasn't for me he wouldn't be here anymore. And I stand by my actions.

Logically what I did was wrong, but socially is what I did right or wrong? I did what I felt was right in my heart, even though my brain was telling me otherwise.

Again, exactly my thoughts. I don't want to think what might've happened if I hadn't stopped him. And I'd make the same choice again given the choice.

[Z_mann]

Quote

While the logical response would have been to let him kill himself, afterall if he has such a weak mind why should he continue to live?

Depression, in the form we are discussing right now, has no root in genetic heritage. Children of that individual can grow up to be normal - if you choose to call it that way. Whenever such a question comes to mind, ask yourself always - who shall inherit the Earth? There never was any need for eugenics - there never will be.

[Dauth]

I never said use eugenics I never said force it on the population. I merely said let the tree of life be self pruning, as opposing to having the rest of the population lurch out to catch unstable branches.

[Z_mann]

On this I disagree strongly. There are always problems within someone's life - that's pretty much a given. Now, when there exists within an individual inability to accept those problems, to attempt to overtake them, then depression is bred. It's a temporary state of mind - and suicide is the exponential end result. Depressed individuals need to be taught this, and the commitment lies on those around them - family and friends first, and then all of society in the end.

As for the actual 'on the building' issue - it's not really about attention for attention sake. People take their life for many reasons, not just because of a serious case of depression. If a depressed individual threatens the crowd, its because in the nature of its predicament is to have second thoughts. One is never truly accomplished, there is always guilt, there is always remorse. The mind turns it inward, projects it against oneself, and thus creates a serious problem. That's why people should help calm the person, to stop it from harming itself in affect. Imagine a bar fight - would you try to stop a friend from hurting someone else?

[Ion Cannon!]

Z_mann, on 5 Oct 2008, 20:57, said:

On this I disagree strongly. There are always problems within someone's life - that's pretty much a given. Now, when there exists within an individual inability to accept those problems, to attempt to overtake them, then depression is bred. It's a temporary state of mind - and suicide is the exponential end result. Depressed individuals need to be taught this, and the commitment lies on those around them - family and friends first, and then all of society in the end.

As for the actual 'on the building' issue - it's not really about attention for attention sake. People take their life for many reasons, not just because of a serious case of depression. If a depressed individual threatens the crowd, its because in the nature of its predicament is to have second thoughts. One is never truly accomplished, there is always guilt, there is always remorse. The mind turns it inward, projects it against oneself, and thus creates a serious problem. That's why people should help calm the person, to stop it from harming itself in affect. Imagine a bar fight - would you try to stop a friend from hurting someone else?

Okay, so if they didn't cimb onto the building for attention, what for then?

[Z_mann]

Because a part of you doesn't want to jump. It is highly advisable to stimulate that part, to avoid death if possible. There are always idiots who do it for random reasons - I'm talking about the truly depressed. Attention is not a goal here, at least not primary.

[Cryptkeeper]

look attention is not always a bad reason sure just doing it for the sake of it is but when people do not listen to you attention becomes something you feel is so unobtainable and when ever you try to reach out to some one they all ways batter you down only thinking in there prospective I admit I have done this many times before in the past but allot times it was because i guarded myself either i was stressed or i felt like they were attacking me those times were not necessarily good tho.

and the only hope they have in someone actually listening is the suicide attempt i totally disagree with suicide but there not nessarcly bad peopel and it is there choose to end there life all you can do is reach out to them through words after that its up to them what they choose.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Z_mann, on 5 Oct 2008, 20:57, said:

On this I disagree strongly. There are always problems within someone's life - that's pretty much a given. Now, when there exists within an individual inability to accept those problems, to attempt to overtake them, then depression is bred. It's a temporary state of mind - and suicide is the exponential end result. Depressed individuals need to be taught this, and the commitment lies on those around them - family and friends first, and then all of society in the end.

So now it's somehow my responsibility to stop other people from jumping off bridges?

Edited by Dr. Strangelove, 05 October 2008 - 23:26.