61 replies to this topic

[Zero]

Simple, I put up a speech or two at a time and we discuss. Please don't put a new speech on without asking or while one is being discussed. K, first one, we all heard it in Of Equality thread:

Quote

Here's what it says, but I suggest you watch it, as it just makes it feel MUCH more epic:
People are not equal.
Those who are born fleet of foot.
Those who are born beautiful.
Those whose parents are poor.
Those who have weak bodies.
Birth, growth and talent.
All humans are different.
That's right.
People are born to be different!
That's why people fight and compete with one another.
From there, evolution takes place.
Inequality is not evil.
Equality itself is evil.
What of the E.U. who advocate equal rights?
That only leads to a mob rule where everyone seeks to improve nothing but their own reputation.
What of the Chinese Union who advocate equal wealth?
That only leads to a mass of lazy fools.
But we, Britannia, are not like that.
We fight , compete and continue to evolve!
Britannia alone is moving forward towards the future.
My son Clovis's death is proof that Britannia is continuing to evolve.
We must fight!
Compete, take, possess, control!
Beyond that lies the future!

ALL HAIL BRITANNIA!"

Discuss what you think about it..... Next one will be a montage speech.




Pretty much whole episode is a speech, but you don't need to watch them all.

Case and point: Lies are needed for humanity to exists, a world without lies is a dead one. A world without lies is one with no future.

Edited by Dauth, 07 December 2008 - 12:32.

[Dr. Strangelove]

EDIT: After watching the other two videos, I still have absolutely no idea how you reached that conclusion.

I'll edit this post in an hour and elaborate on how this is relevant to your speeches.

Edited by Dr. Strangelove, 07 December 2008 - 09:47.

[The Wandering Jew]

 Zero, on 7 Dec 2008, 3:42, said:

...
...

Quote

People are not equal.
Those who are born fleet of foot.
Those who are born beautiful.
Those whose parents are poor.
Those who have weak bodies.
Birth, growth and talent.
All humans are different.
That's right.
People are born to be different!
That's why people fight and compete with one another.
From there, evolution takes place.
Inequality is not evil.
Equality itself is evil.
What of the E.U. who advocate equal rights?
That only leads to a mob rule where everyone seeks to improve nothing but their own reputation.
What of the Chinese Union who advocate equal wealth?
That only leads to a mass of lazy fools.
But we, Britannia, are not like that.
We fight , compete and continue to evolve!
Britannia alone is moving forward towards the future.
My son Clovis's death is proof that Britannia is continuing to evolve.
We must fight!
Compete, take, possess, control!
Beyond that lies the future!

ALL HAIL BRITANNIA!"

Discuss what you think about it..... Next one will be a montage speech.

I agree with the first twelve lines, but the rest, well, it seems to me the speech implies "misplaced nationality" as if Britannia (Great Britain?) is going amok.

 Zero, on 7 Dec 2008, 3:42, said:

Case and point: Lies are needed for humanity to exists, a world without lies is a dead one. A world without lies is one with no future.

Indeed. Lies are needed, but who wanted them?

[Dr. Strangelove]

 The Wandering Jew, on 8 Dec 2008, 5:16, said:

 Zero, on 7 Dec 2008, 3:42, said:

Case and point: Lies are needed for humanity to exists, a world without lies is a dead one. A world without lies is one with no future.

Indeed. Lies are needed, but who wanted them?

Why?

[AllStarZ]

Most anime is at best a sub-standard source of philosophy.

Social Darwinism. An excuse for the rich and the powerful to justify their position on the basis of superior physical or mental attributes. In reality, men of power rise to their positions on the backs of others.

[Dr. Strangelove]

 AllStarZ, on 8 Dec 2008, 22:42, said:

Most anime is at best a sub-standard source of philosophy.

Social Darwinism. An excuse for the rich and the powerful to justify their position on the basis of superior physical or mental attributes. In reality, men of power rise to their positions on the backs of others.

I agree with the first statement, but I disagree with you on the second statement as much as I disagree with Zero.

[AllStarZ]

How so about the second statement?

[Dr. Strangelove]

The idea that no rich person actually produces the wealth they have.

[AllStarZ]

Explain further.

[Dr. Strangelove]

 AllStarZ, on 8 Dec 2008, 21:42, said:

In reality, men of power rise to their positions on the backs of others.

If you mean political power, than I could care less, but if you mean wealth, then I have to disagree with you.

[AllStarZ]

I mean wealth.

[Dr. Strangelove]

And yet there is more total wealth today than there was 1000 years ago.

[AllStarZ]

What I meant by my statement, is that no one gets to where they are without help. A CEO of a corporation today cannot hold his position if he does not have his legions of workers, or his squads of accountants, lawyers, paper-pushers. As it is, he is a cog in the machine-like entity known as the corporation.

Edited by AllStarZ, 09 December 2008 - 06:11.

[Dr. Strangelove]

But you will concede that individuals have value?

[AllStarZ]

I've never rejected the idea. What I do reject, is that somehow people that are inherently better than others can rise up in power and wealth on those attributes alone. What I believe, is that while every individual has value on their own, it is a "limited" value.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Explain.

[AllStarZ]

In short, each person cannot be self-sufficient.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Why not?

[AllStarZ]

You get your food from a supermarket, a car from an automobile company, the government maintains the roads and the system that allows for this to occur. A great big massive web of interdependence. A CEO cannot effectively manage a company without the massive staff that compose the bureaucracy that helps manage it, nor would said company exist without the people who make the goods or provide the services that the company offers.

Of course you can be self-sufficient. But that would involve living on what you can find or on very basic agriculture, which can fail in a drought. And all of this in temperate weather conditions. Humans have greater needs than the very basic ones required to survive.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Define 'need'.

[AllStarZ]

The need for some kind of entertainment, some kind of motivation.

[Dr. Strangelove]

How is that necessary?

EDIT: If it's not obvious yet, I'm going to keep asking something along the lines of 'why' until you get to the very 'root of the problem', for lack of a better term.

Edited by Dr. Strangelove, 09 December 2008 - 07:38.

[Z_mann]

I think you should explain the 'root's of this problem, cause we are kinda drawn round in circles here...

Also, here's the thing I've been thinking about. If lies are wrong by definition, then why do we lie? Incest is wrong by definition too, but it has been abolished almost completely. Why do humans (I'm not using the word need) lie? Cause it's fun?

Discuss further. I would, but I get randomly BsoD'ed every 2 minutes...

[BeefJeRKy]

 Dr. Strangelove, on 9 Dec 2008, 2:35, said:

How is that necessary?

EDIT: If it's not obvious yet, I'm going to keep asking something along the lines of 'why' until you get to the very 'root of the problem', for lack of a better term.

I don't know about you but without any form of entertainment, i would probably go insane. Humans by nature are social beings that need social interaction to live normally.

[Zero]

Okay, let me rephrase myself, for the survival of the human race, lies are needed. Why? Simple scenario: look at most of history. If we do not lie then there will be an infinite string of wars and proxy-wars. Why? Because that what politics is about. Hell, fuck politics, think about normal life: dating, work, even survival; how well would your income be if every time your boss (who in this instant you hate) took you to his office to talk about something and you told him how you hate him, you'd be fired in an instant. Of course, I'm not saying that relationships should be based on lies, but then again, if you tell me you have never lied, ESPECIALLY in/about a relationship, you sir are a damn liar. Lying is part of our self-preservation instinct.

Oh, and, don't make fun of anime as a sub-standard of philosophy. Anime and manga can serve as as good a medium of philosophy as books, you just have to find the right ones.

@ Dr. Stranglelove: If you watch all three and listen to the WHOLE conversation you'd see where I derive that point from. The point is, Charles wants to make a world without lies by manipulating the collective human conciousness (which he calls god), and Lelouch pointed out that in a world without lies, people would annihilate themselves. Therefore, it is a world without future.

 The Wandering Jew, on 8 Dec 2008, 5:16, said:

 Zero, on 7 Dec 2008, 3:42, said:

...
...

Quote

People are not equal.
Those who are born fleet of foot.
Those who are born beautiful.
Those whose parents are poor.
Those who have weak bodies.
Birth, growth and talent.
All humans are different.
That's right.
People are born to be different!
That's why people fight and compete with one another.
From there, evolution takes place.
Inequality is not evil.
Equality itself is evil.
What of the E.U. who advocate equal rights?
That only leads to a mob rule where everyone seeks to improve nothing but their own reputation.
What of the Chinese Union who advocate equal wealth?
That only leads to a mass of lazy fools.
But we, Britannia, are not like that.
We fight , compete and continue to evolve!
Britannia alone is moving forward towards the future.
My son Clovis's death is proof that Britannia is continuing to evolve.
We must fight!
Compete, take, possess, control!
Beyond that lies the future!

ALL HAIL BRITANNIA!"

Discuss what you think about it..... Next one will be a montage speech.

I agree with the first twelve lines, but the rest, well, it seems to me the speech implies "misplaced nationality" as if Britannia (Great Britain?) is going amok.

 Zero, on 7 Dec 2008, 3:42, said:

Case and point: Lies are needed for humanity to exists, a world without lies is a dead one. A world without lies is one with no future.

Indeed. Lies are needed, but who wanted them?

Just so you know, in this world, Brittania is one of the world superpowers and it controls about 1/3 of the world. England, ironically enough, is not part of it, nor is most of Europe. Brittania, however, controls ALL of Americas, most-if-not-all of Africa, and everywhere up to Japan. This is a speech trying to raise national morale after one of his sons, a prince died, so that's why he preaches nationality. However, I do agree with the notions of an "evolving" society....