60 replies to this topic

[Dutchygamer]

Okay, the thread about the fact Kenny is back was the last straw for me. It began with some words that weren't that good, but it ended in a SWR bashing thread.
Why is almost everyone here so happy to say how bad SWR are when they are gone? I mean, if you can do it now, why weren't you brave enough to say it when they still where here? Because you are doing it now, I consider it as backstabbing them: "thanks for the publicity, now rot in hell because you left us".
I don't give a shit about the 'relationship between FS and SWR', because there ain't any from my point of view. FS members don't want SWR anymore because of their 'betrayal', and SWR doesn't want FS anymore because of the reactions ppl make here.

Also, for all mods/admins out there: I spoke to someone of you, and he said I could go ahead with this thread, without risking a lock before some decent comments have been made. Now I do hope you guys keep your word on this. To all other members: bite me, I don't give a shit. I am pissed of about this and you may know it.

Dutchy out.

[Dauth]

I'll lay in nice and early, so anyone who wants to bitch at my decision can bitch at me (for all the good it will do you).

This topic will be kept civil and I am damn sure every moderator is going to be watching it. You are free to say what you think about SWR moving on and FS allowing them to leave but you will do so in a manner that does not break the rules.

My feelings, these are independent of the FS Staff and only represent my views. I had the good fortune to work with SWR for about 18 months, testing betas, correcting SPAG and even writing some lore. Furthermore I worked with the SWR team as administrators, I understood why they were hired if in hindsight there were other candidates for the jobs. After a while, and a number of changes pushed for by myself among other Staff members SWR felt that they were no longer happy with the direction of the community and proposed a series of changes that I felt were unacceptable. The other Administrators agreed with my views and SWR agreed to leave FS· I have not joined the SWR forums for the simple reason, I don't have enough time to be active on another community and still wish them well with the plans that I have been privy to.

[Zeke]

 Dutchygamer, on 16 Jul 2009, 17:33, said:

Why is almost everyone here so happy to say how bad SWR are when they are gone? I mean, if you can do it now, why weren't you brave enough to say it when they still were here?

You pretty much answered your own question

Well I dunno about you, but one does not go to a police station to rant about how stupid he thinks cops are.

Otherwise you might end up being beaten up with sticks or tazed in the nuts

Edited by Zeke, 16 July 2009 - 10:55.

[Golan]

Indeed it should be noted that before their departure, the SWR team was holding/was involved in key positions of this forum. Coupled with the very high concentration of what can best be described as fanboys, there really wasn't any room for thorough criticism voiced on the forums. As far as I can tell, many a person was none too happy with this situation and felt that many of the SWR team were living in an ivory tower built on an ivory island surrounded by a sea of ivory on an ivory world located in an ivory universe. Especially in light of what reasons were stated for the parting, such feelings were probably aggravated by the recent move.
Furthermore, the new SWR forums show a striking resemblance to the FS forums. It is probably not too far fetched to ponder the idea of the SWR forums being the result of a failed coup d'état. That's not exactly the kind of thing people like.

Me personally, let's just say that there was a reason I insisted on being removed from the team quickly after joining.

Nonetheless, I feel that it is inappropriate to "bash" SWR for what happened.

[Libains]

And already we go too far. That is neither a constructive nor a sensible reply Zeke - you could easily have got your feelings across without using such terms.

My views are pretty simple tbh. For a long time on this forum I respected the influence and the general qualities of the SWR team. Following a certain incident where another mod team that I am part of was judged incredibly harshly by one of the SWR leaders, my position within the team became untenable, and thus am slightly biased against them. Frankly, while they had issues with the way the forum was run, their methods of getting that across were wrong, and resulted in a fractured admin community. If they had gone about it differently, who knows? They may have been here today.

Let this not be seen as a 'I dislike SWR' post though - I still respect them for the mods that they produce, and wish them well in the future, but I am not sorry that they are gone.

@Dutchy: People don't say what they think because of what it could entail sometimes, I imagine. If you look at what happened to Rich and myself, it may be clearer as to how those who stood up to SWR were treated. Furthermore, those that did were often alienated from the community as a result of this, whether this was SWR's fault or the other person's fault I do not know and do not care. No matter who's fault, it pretty much always ended the same way.

[Zeke]

 AJ, on 16 Jul 2009, 18:42, said:

And already we go too far. That is neither a constructive nor a sensible reply Zeke - you could easily have got your feelings across without using such terms.

eh, what?

All I said was you don't diss someone in their own forums. I just chose police officers cause it was the first example I can think of...

[Alias]

I'm going to be very blunt with this: almost EVERY single one of us would have joined here due to either an SWR mod or by association to someone who went here due to an SWR mod. Almost EVERY single one of us has played an SWR mod.

In short: without SWR mods this forum would not exist. Fact. So give them the bloody respect they deserve.

[Golan]

No. Just because someone was a great person in the past doesn't mean that you still should to treat them like this when they start behaving "not so great" if you get my meaning.

Disclaimer: This is a purely theoretical argument not intended to imply that SWR does or does not behave in an inappropriate way.

[Crazykenny]

Alias please get your head our of SWRs ass when you dont know the full extent of things.

[Dauth]

Kenny neither do you, next comment like that and you'll be on +33% I am not putting up with vendettas or bullshit in this thread.

[Alias]

 Crazykenny, on 16 Jul 2009, 21:12, said:

Alias please get your head our of SWRs ass when you dont know the full extent of things.

Don't know the full extent?
I joined because of SWR.
You joined because of SWR.
Every single current staff member (except for Codecat, which I do not know, certainly as a splinter from Revora) here joined because of SWR.
And at least 90% of everyone else joined because of SWR.

That is the full extent of SWR's influence. I do not have my head in their arse, infact quite a lot of the SWR team only show marginal content with me due to something that has happened in the past, you know nothing of my relationship with SWR.

[Dutchygamer]

Great, what have I started >_>

[Crazykenny]

Alias I didnt join because of SWR, if you dont know what the hell your talking about then keep your mouth shut. I joined because I needed a place to spread my maps in. I joined because of the community and interesting topics.

The last thing on my mind was SWR.

[Zeke]

 Dutchygamer, on 16 Jul 2009, 19:23, said:

Great, what have I started >_>

lesson: don't internet wen pissed

[Alias]

 Crazykenny, on 16 Jul 2009, 21:24, said:

Alias I didnt join because of SWR, if you dont know what the hell your talking about then keep your mouth shut. I joined because I needed a place to spread my maps in. I joined because of the community and interesting topics.

The last thing on my mind was SWR.

You joined to share your maps, fine. You still joined by association. If it weren't for SWR this wouldn't have been established as a extremely strong Generals and Zero Hour community and as such would've been futile to share maps on.

The extent of their influence is the only reason this forum is still here.

[Crazykenny]

Alias, I am warning you, you are getting on my nerves.

[Dutchygamer]

Arf, mods, lock this before it gets out of hands. I had my facts wrong. Now I dunno what to think of both parties...

[Wizard]

Appreciate your point Dutchy but we'll deal with those who break the rules. Think this is something the forum probably needs to get off their chest.

[Alias]

 Crazykenny, on 16 Jul 2009, 21:29, said:

Alias, I am warning you, you are getting on my nerves.

Because you can't get over the fact that you wouldn't be here (and almost everyone else) if it wasn't for SWR?

[Crazykenny]

No SWR can *** me. I couldnt care less. Even if they where not here, I would have still joined. I loved Deep End and the PC discussion. If you dont know a person, then dont talk about him. You clearly think you know me, which you dont. So please go talk your nonesense about someone else.

In fact dont quote this, just go back on topic. Cuz we all know where this is heading.

[Rayburn]

This isn't addressed to anyone in particular but what's with all this unwarranted hatred all of a sudden? This is no longer the community I used to like up until half a year ago. Some of you throw a fit as if we looted your houses and burned down your farm. Tell you what: We at SWR, we also prefer our forum over this one but guess what, we have better reasons than 'duh, now we don't have to deal with these people anymore'. We left this place because we no longer agreed with Fallouts policy regarding hosting and general forum things and we're quite happy that we managed to establish ourselves in our new place. You on the other hand, you seem to be motivated by nothing else than the fact that "they're gone". Different opinions on policies vs. personal vendettas. I would have expected more of you guys. I was hoping that this would be settled in a peaceful and mature way but instead, we're treated like rotten apples, dictators and friggin' cancer. I, for one, never did anybody wrong when I was a staffer and yet, I have the feeling that even I am no longer welcome here, along with various other people who did their job here for freaking years, brought massive attantion to this place, kept everything in check and so on. There may have been some mistakes, errors are human, but that's not a reason to treat us like a bunch of evil outcasts and celebrate our departure as if it was the death of Emperor Palpatine.

Edited by Rayburn, 16 July 2009 - 11:44.

[Wi-Ta]

Crazykenny

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Only this time a less desireable piece of Fallout has left and therefor will increase the fun for me.

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I apperantly wasnt the only one against our previous dictator regime.

Ion Cannon

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We lost nothing of worth, in fact SWR leaving did us a tremendous favour.

AJ

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I said we lost something... but you can 'lose' a tumour as well as a gold necklace...

What still make me wonder how would you feel if someone say this about you?

As far as i see it SWR did leave because they did need a different environment.
Actually i did not really leave this place i always was looking around here.
But all this comments are in my view childish behavior and not needed.

Crazykenny

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Alias please get your head our of SWRs ass when you dont know the full extent of things.

Exactly this talking will get you in trouble someday.
I really did expect that you would say something like this.
“You show us your respect, and we will return the gesture.” does this sound new to you or do just don’t care?

And to be clear you get on my nerves also Kenny

Wi-Ta

[Kris]

@Dutchy: Short Simple answer why we hated SWR: The dictatorship. We're like getting imprisoned and the freedom we had back in the C&C Reneclips days was gone. SWR leaving C&C Reneclips (FS today) is a sigh of relief for old timers like me and 65% of the C&C Reneclips' freedom came back.

@Alias: I didn't joined C&C Reneclips because of SWR. Infact, SWR didn't even existed back in 2004; So don't shove that "you joined because of SWR blah blah" to us.. I joined CNCRE because of the great community it used to have, the modding help was abundant for modding noobs like me and the free content that used to exist in the mainpage made me stay..

[Alias]

 Kris, on 16 Jul 2009, 21:46, said:

@Dutchy: Short Simple answer why we hated SWR: The dictatorship. We're like getting imprisoned and the freedom we had back in the C&C Reneclips days was gone. SWR leaving C&C Reneclips (FS today) is a sigh of relief for old timers like me and 65% of the C&C Reneclips' freedom came back.

I may not have been around for as long as you, but I certainly joined at the beginning of the main 2006 surge caused by Shockwave and it was pretty bloody 'free' back then. There was no fucking 'dictatorship'.

 Kris, on 16 Jul 2009, 21:46, said:

@Alias: I didn't joined C&C Reneclips because of SWR. Infact, SWR didn't even existed back in 2004; So don't shove that "you joined because of SWR blah blah" to us.. I joined CNCRE because of the great community it used to have, the modding help was abundant for modding noobs like me and the free content that used to exist in the mainpage made me stay..

If you bothered to read what I posted, I wrote "almost everyone", 'almost' meaning not every single one. Older members such as yourself and Boidy would have joined for different reasons.

[Rayburn]

It's lovely how people use this term 'dictatorship', like we violently oppressed everyone and you weren't even allowed to leave if you got sick of it. Internet forums aren't 'democratic' by nature, china. And what's that, "freedom came back"? Freedom as in an over-regulated politics forum and the Damocles-sword of political correctness hovering over the entire place? The freedom for leaderless mods with zero progress to clog up the index forever? The freedom for adult members to keep everything child-friendly and happy because every discussion has to be kept so light that it doesn't offend any 12 year olds? I'm really sorry that I have to dive so deeply into the dark ocean of sarcasm. I didn't want this to end like that but certain things were said which I cannot ignore without a potentially angry comment.

Edited by Rayburn, 16 July 2009 - 11:55.