38 replies to this topic

[ΓΛPTΘΓ]

People who persistently download illegal content will be cut off from the net, Business Secretary Peter Mandelson has announced.

More info: http://news.bbc.co.u...ogy/8328820.stm

To me, its a horrible move by the UK government restricting our own freedom. I feel sad see country after country following this move, I personally think cutting internet won't solve anything. Have your view on this.

[Dutchygamer]

If Holland is going to do this as their next step to stop file sharing, then I'm moving to the US or some other internet-friendly country -.-"

[Liten]

I wonder if it will work... About the same thing happened here in Sweden, but over 3 Million Swedes still download things

Dutchygamer, on 28 Oct 2009, 13:55, said:

If Holland is going to do this as their next step to stop file sharing, then I'm moving to the US or some other internet-friendly country -.-"

Move to Sweden and use Alltele, they don´t give out information about their customers

[Ion Cannon!]

They can't regulate 60+ million internet users, it just isn't going to happen.

[Wizard]

ΓΛPΤΘΓ, on 28 Oct 2009, 11:06, said:

To me, its a horrible move by the UK government restricting our own freedom. I feel sad see country after country following this move, I personally think cutting internet won't solve anything. Have your view on this.

Compare the following

You steal something on the internet, they take your internet away.
You get caught drink driving, they.....

Why do people think that piracy and copyright breach are not worthy laws to adhere to?

[ΓΛPTΘΓ]

Wizard, on 28 Oct 2009, 13:01, said:

ΓΛPΤΘΓ, on 28 Oct 2009, 11:06, said:

To me, its a horrible move by the UK government restricting our own freedom. I feel sad see country after country following this move, I personally think cutting internet won't solve anything. Have your view on this.

Compare the following

You steal something on the internet, they take your internet away.
You get caught drink driving, they.....

Why do people think that piracy and copyright breach are not worthy laws to adhere to?

I think the UN is trying to pass internet access as a human right, great timing?

Is pirating gonna get someone innocent people killed?

[Ion Cannon!]

ΓΛPΤΘΓ, on 28 Oct 2009, 13:13, said:

Wizard, on 28 Oct 2009, 13:01, said:

ΓΛPΤΘΓ, on 28 Oct 2009, 11:06, said:

To me, its a horrible move by the UK government restricting our own freedom. I feel sad see country after country following this move, I personally think cutting internet won't solve anything. Have your view on this.

Compare the following

You steal something on the internet, they take your internet away.
You get caught drink driving, they.....

Why do people think that piracy and copyright breach are not worthy laws to adhere to?

I think the UN is trying to pass internet access as a human right, great timing?

Is pirating gonna get someone innocent people killed?

We've been here before. How the hell is internet access a human right? You won't die without it, thats just dumb. Besides, internet access doesn't mean you have to download illegal stuff.

[Wizard]

ΓΛPΤΘΓ, on 28 Oct 2009, 13:13, said:

Wizard, on 28 Oct 2009, 13:01, said:

ΓΛPΤΘΓ, on 28 Oct 2009, 11:06, said:

To me, its a horrible move by the UK government restricting our own freedom. I feel sad see country after country following this move, I personally think cutting internet won't solve anything. Have your view on this.

Compare the following

You steal something on the internet, they take your internet away.
You get caught drink driving, they.....

Why do people think that piracy and copyright breach are not worthy laws to adhere to?

I think the UN is trying to pass internet access as a human right, great timing?

Is pirating gonna get someone innocent people killed?

Does that make it reason to break the law, just because it won't get anyone killed? How about regular theft? Are you ok with that to?

[ΓΛPTΘΓ]

I am not excusing any file-sharer breaking the law, but why not have a proper trial before any action taken? Like any other crime?

Internet can be easier stolen and used by an 3rd party, with increasing number of WiFi router, I doubt it would help.

[Ion Cannon!]

ΓΛPΤΘΓ, on 28 Oct 2009, 13:21, said:

I am not excusing any file-sharer breaking the law, but why not have a proper trial before any action taken? Like any other crime?

Internet can be easier stolen and used by an 3rd party, with increasing number of WiFi router, I doubt it would help.

The UK justice system is overburdened as it is, which is why I imagine they are keeping small scale downloaders out of court.

[ΓΛPTΘΓ]

Ion Cannon!, on 28 Oct 2009, 13:22, said:

ΓΛPΤΘΓ, on 28 Oct 2009, 13:21, said:

I am not excusing any file-sharer breaking the law, but why not have a proper trial before any action taken? Like any other crime?

Internet can be easier stolen and used by an 3rd party, with increasing number of WiFi router, I doubt it would help.

The UK justice system is overburdened as it is, which is why I imagine they are keeping small scale downloaders out of court.

Still how about innocent users, with stolen WiFi access? I had this problem before... My WiFi got stolen once, then I just have to up the secuity and change pass every week. I highly doubt any normal user would go that far. Also pirates are normally more able in terms of computing, I can see this getting abused with increasing powerful processors and WiFi range, decrypting may only takes minutes...

[Wizard]

ΓΛPΤΘΓ, on 28 Oct 2009, 13:21, said:

I am not excusing any file-sharer breaking the law, but why not have a proper trial before any action taken? Like any other crime?

Internet can be easier stolen and used by an 3rd party, with increasing number of WiFi router, I doubt it would help.

There is already a process whereby you can appeal. It'll be pretty simple to prove if someone has hijacked your net and been using it for illegal activities. And this is one of the few times where I think avoiding due process might be a wise thing.

[ΓΛPTΘΓ]

Wizard, on 28 Oct 2009, 13:26, said:

ΓΛPΤΘΓ, on 28 Oct 2009, 13:21, said:

I am not excusing any file-sharer breaking the law, but why not have a proper trial before any action taken? Like any other crime?

Internet can be easier stolen and used by an 3rd party, with increasing number of WiFi router, I doubt it would help.

There is already a process whereby you can appeal. It'll be pretty simple to prove if someone has hijacked your net and been using it for illegal activities. And this is one of the few times where I think avoiding due process might be a wise thing.

The point is, why hassle normal users? Try to get illegal torrents down so no-one can download it. Cutting the source is the most effective way, imho.

When your average user don't know what is torrent or p2p, I doubt they would understand what happened at all.

Edited by ΓΛPΤΘΓ, 28 October 2009 - 13:30.

[Wizard]

ΓΛPΤΘΓ, on 28 Oct 2009, 13:29, said:

Wizard, on 28 Oct 2009, 13:26, said:

ΓΛPΤΘΓ, on 28 Oct 2009, 13:21, said:

I am not excusing any file-sharer breaking the law, but why not have a proper trial before any action taken? Like any other crime?

Internet can be easier stolen and used by an 3rd party, with increasing number of WiFi router, I doubt it would help.

There is already a process whereby you can appeal. It'll be pretty simple to prove if someone has hijacked your net and been using it for illegal activities. And this is one of the few times where I think avoiding due process might be a wise thing.

The point is, why hassle normal users? Try to get illegal torrents down so no-one can download it. Cutting the source is the most effective way, imho.

When your average user don't know what is torrent or p2p, I doubt they would understand what happened at all.

Torrents and p2p aren't illegal. The content that you share is. If the user doesn't know that, well, they shouldn't be incharge of their own eating habits should they.

[ΓΛPTΘΓ]

Wizard, on 28 Oct 2009, 13:38, said:

ΓΛPΤΘΓ, on 28 Oct 2009, 13:29, said:

Wizard, on 28 Oct 2009, 13:26, said:

ΓΛPΤΘΓ, on 28 Oct 2009, 13:21, said:

I am not excusing any file-sharer breaking the law, but why not have a proper trial before any action taken? Like any other crime?

Internet can be easier stolen and used by an 3rd party, with increasing number of WiFi router, I doubt it would help.

There is already a process whereby you can appeal. It'll be pretty simple to prove if someone has hijacked your net and been using it for illegal activities. And this is one of the few times where I think avoiding due process might be a wise thing.

The point is, why hassle normal users? Try to get illegal torrents down so no-one can download it. Cutting the source is the most effective way, imho.

When your average user don't know what is torrent or p2p, I doubt they would understand what happened at all.

Torrents and p2p aren't illegal. The content that you share is. If the user doesn't know that, well, they shouldn't be incharge of their own eating habits should they.

Every torrent needs a .torrent file and that .torrent file need somewhere to host, KO the source and everyone will be happy...

Instead of burdening everyone, why not kill host sites. They know damn well the contents getting shared is most likely illegal anyway.

The point of average user... well.

Edited by ΓΛPΤΘΓ, 28 October 2009 - 13:48.

[Libains]

Frankly, Mandelson is talking a fair bit of rubbish here. It's the start of the usual flurry of laws that governments try to force through before the end of their tenure - and as it's pretty much a given that Labour is going to be ousted by the Conservatives by the middle of next year, Labour will start forcing through laws soon, before they don't have the chance to. All I can hope is that when they rush through this legislation and get it approved by Parliament, is that the House of Lords stops the damn thing, or they bypass the House of Lords. Either way, it's going to have almost no bearing

Regards the actual law, it can be monitored, sadly. Providers know what goes through their lines, but I doubt any of them will want to hand it over. What I'm also wondering/hoping is whether this contravenes the Data Protection Act. I don't want my browsing data held by anyone really, but I certainly don't want the government getting their sticky hands on it, and then I don't want to be disconnected for someone hacking my wireless, or for downloading a linux distro.

At the end of the day, if Labour force this through it will have to be watertight, else any reasonable Human Rights lawyer is going to tear it to shreds.

[Dauth]

Raptor, torrents are legal, when ubuntu releases in the next week or so I will be torrenting the new version. The illegal torrents are the ones of copyrighted content.

[ΓΛPTΘΓ]

Dauth, on 28 Oct 2009, 13:50, said:

Raptor, torrents are legal, when ubuntu releases in the next week or so I will be torrenting the new version. The illegal torrents are the ones of copyrighted content.

I think I made that clear... I thought wrong.

[Wizard]

ΓΛPΤΘΓ, on 28 Oct 2009, 13:46, said:

Every torrent needs a .torrent file and that .torrent file need somewhere to host, KO the source and everyone will be happy...

Instead of burdening everyone, why not kill host sites. They know damn well the contents getting shared is most likely illegal anyway.

The point of average user... well.

Not every host site is a proper host site. It would even harder to cut off the x million users that provide their own files for download than actually targetting the bigger downloading offenders.

[ΓΛPTΘΓ]

I think to just take down the "big boys" will help alot, sites like TPB, Torrentreactors...Will help this situation ALOT. Taken them down will take less time than take millions of sharers offline. As I said, target the core, not average users.

Edited by ΓΛPΤΘΓ, 28 October 2009 - 14:02.

[Wizard]

I don't doubt targetting the bigger the hosters is already something they're doing. However unless there are penalties for being an end user of an illegal torrent demand will fuel the supply. Simple economics.

[Mortecha]

ΓΛPΤΘΓ, on 29 Oct 2009, 0:01, said:

I think to just take down the "big boys" will help alot, sites like TPB, Torrentreactors...Will help this situation ALOT. Taken them down will take less time than take millions of sharers offline. As I said, target the core, not average users.

Well going on from the previous example of drink driving, this statement is like saying that the companies that manafacture alcohol should be responsible for every person who gets behind the wheel intoxicated. Piracy is a crime that should be governed like every other law.

[Libains]

Cutting off a site providing torrents or acting as a tracker is practically impossible - you look at The Pirate Bay and you just see 'Governmental Failure' plastered all over it. Plus, for every site like this that goes down, another dozen pop up in it's place. You can't stop the internet, this has been proven so many times over it's lifespan it's insane. The only way for people to stop filesharers is through blocking them on their end, and I'd support it if it were not hashed out and a poor excuse for having a look at what we're all doing. Someone I spoke to recently said:

'I used to download illegal music all the time. Then Spotify came along and I stopped as there was a cheap, legal alternative'

The media industry does itself no favours at all in this regard, people download stuff through torrents as there is still no way to beat it's ease of use. The media industry is failing itself and it's customers. As a student, I sure as hell don't have the money to buy loads of dvds/films. Now say somebody came up with a tariff plan for renting as many films as you wanted at something like £10 a month, digitally. That I'd buy into. But nobody has, and it's a mess. So instead of diversifying, the media industry is pushing through new laws that force people back to their way of things. Honestly, if they start pulling the plug left and right, we may end up seeing a drop-off in media sales. Getting stuck in your ways sucks when your users expand on their own.

A good example for me is one I've used a lot. I torrented the whole of House Season 5 a little while back in order to get ahold of a show I thoroughly enjoy before the DVD made it out here, but had in the US. I've since bought the DVD boxset here because the series is bloody good, and I wanted to own it on DVD. My torrents now constitute a legal backup of the DVDs. Now, if the industry had got it's finger out I may have been able to own the DVD, or perhaps the digital copy, without the need for waiting or torrenting. Yet they failed.

That also brings up one more point. Having a legal backup of a DVD is legal. Same for music. So instead of going through the painful process of ripping a copy from my DVD, what is to prevent me from torrenting it instead? Nothing as far as I am aware, and yet I could be disconnected because I want to backup my DVD collection. The government can't state that torrenting = bad. It's situational, but content can be sometimes illegal, sometimes legal. I can't see how they're going to get around this.

Edited by AJ, 28 October 2009 - 14:12.

[ΓΛPTΘΓ]

Mortecha, on 28 Oct 2009, 14:05, said:

ΓΛPΤΘΓ, on 29 Oct 2009, 0:01, said:

I think to just take down the "big boys" will help alot, sites like TPB, Torrentreactors...Will help this situation ALOT. Taken them down will take less time than take millions of sharers offline. As I said, target the core, not average users.

Well going on from the previous example of drink driving, this statement is like saying that the companies that manafacture alcohol should be responsible for every person who gets behind the wheel intoxicated. Piracy is a crime that should be governed like every other law.

But is drinking illegal on its own? You can drink legally, but you cannot download any illgeal torrent legally. So stopping alcohol manufacturing is not a valid move. But cutting massive trackers? Yes, it will surely help to slow down distrbustion of torrent files therefore less file will be shared... The trackers themselves know very well most the torrents they host will be use to p2p illgeal files, so I think its rather acceptable.


EDIT: I agree to AJ 100% (for once ), the media should help not to sue everyone. If they provide a good service at reasonable price, I don't see why not pirating will stop. It is them who have the money, resources and power to do this.

Edited by ΓΛPΤΘΓ, 28 October 2009 - 14:14.

[Mortecha]

The torrent trackers however are technically not responsible for the content, as well as that, the torrent technology is not illegal.