23 replies to this topic

[Libains]

Valve Goes Mac, and They Won't Go Back.


That's right folks, if you own a Mac, your gaming ability is going to re-align right alongside that of any Windows PC. Valve officially announced that they would be bringing their famed platform, Steam, to the Mac, by April. So forget about this age-old rivalry between Mac and Windows, because one of the massive, obvious divides between the two rival companies has just been rendered non-existant overnight.


Initially, it is thought that not many games in the extensive Steam catalogue will be available for Mac download, as this is primarily a Valve venture, and thus they will lead the way with their flagship games. So, come April, you can play Left 4 Dead 2, Team Fortress 2, Counter-Strike, Portal, and the Half-Life series on your Mac, swiftly followed by the now highly-anticipated Portal 2. But, happily, there's even more good news buried in this announcement! Valve has decided that they couldn't give a damn about whether you are playing on a PC or a Mac, it's all the same to them. So much so, that if you already own one of these games for Windows, you can get a Mac copy for free! So while you may never want to use that Windows PC again, you don't have to buy a new game. But what happens when you want to annihilate your clan members, but they're all playing on Windows PCs? Well, Valve doesn't care much for that either - no matter your platform, you can still have fun nuking/sniping/knifing your amigos.

Now, most PC gamers will be turning their nose up at this concept, or just not be bothered in the slightest. Well I'm telling you now, you should be very bothered as to how this pans out. Primarily because of the means of implementing the games onto the Mac system. Any PC gamer worth his salt knows of the concept of DirectX and Direct 3D, the interface that is used in nearly all Windows PC games, and which is a Microsoft product. As anyone with a bit of knowledge knows, it's also the reason as to why games don't work on Macs - because Microsoft will not let DirectX & 3D anywhere near the Mac. So then, I hear you cry, 'What emulation engine are they using?'. The answer is they're not. The Source engine is being rebuilt, on OpenGL, a very similar interface to DirectX & 3D, but cross-platform. So every Windows gamer that uses the Source engine may well in not-too long be running an entirely new game - under the hood in the least. And if one of the largest digital content distributors in the world chooses to use this interface, then you can imagine the fallout. It is quite possible that this may be the defining shift for gaming for the next generation.

Pushing thirty years ago now, Apple launched this campaign, based on changing the world with their first Macintosh computer. I wouldn't be surprised if Valve were trying to emulate that in some fashion...




AJ

Edited by AJ, 10 March 2010 - 00:48.

[Dr. Strangelove]

I don't know about Open GL. I heard that's mostly used by film makers, not game developers.

[CodeCat]

OpenGL is used by plenty of games. In particular, all games and engines by ID software since Quake have used it, and you can't exactly call them unsuccessful. Yes, it's used by film makers, but that's just one of its many 'talents'. Direct3D is specifically targeted at game development. OpenGL is targeted at everyone, INCLUDING game development.

Edited by CodeCat, 10 March 2010 - 01:26.

[Dr. Strangelove]

At least they only have to modify one engine, could you imagine how much a bitch this would be for them if they had used a different engine for every game?

EDIT: Actually wouldn't they have to rebuild it from the ground up. Independent parts like Havok too?

Edited by The Machman, 10 March 2010 - 01:34.

[CodeCat]

I suppose that just shows the merits of thinking ahead, and designing an application in a platform-independent way. That way, it's easy to port your application to another platform because everything is already written that way. Of course, developing platform-independently means not tying yourself into proprietary APIs like DirectX. ID software got the right idea, and Quake 4 was developed 100% DirectX-free (OpenGL for rendering, SDL for the rest of DirectX).

And no, the physics engine doesn't interface with the operating system, it's self-contained. All it does is math.

Edited by CodeCat, 10 March 2010 - 01:36.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Shows what I know.

[Jok3r]

I can't speak for the technicalities, but I can say I'm excited as hell about this, and it means I may finally be joining the TF2 server.

EDIT: Also, a question for people who are a little more technically knowledgeable here. How will playing on a mac affect ones ability to play mods for source games? Should they, theoretically, work (with perhaps some modification by the user) and be playable with PC users?

Edited by Jok3r, 10 March 2010 - 01:55.

[CodeCat]

That depends on how mods are written. If they interface only with the engine and do not execute any native code on the CPU then they should be easily portable.

[CJ]

DirectX isn't needed for all PC games, I recall that Counter Strike Source already could be launched without having DirectX installed, thanks to the OpenGL renderer that it included with it... I'm wondering why they didn't think of using it before for Macs...

[TheDR]

Source games coming to Mac can only be a good thing but i doubt it touch the Windows gaming market. One of the best reasons for Windows gaming is upgrading instead of buying a new system, but you can't upgrade a Mac (as easily) so you have already lost one of the main reasons for getting into Windows gaming (also the noticeable price difference because of the so called "Mac Tax").

Mac gaming is a good thing no doubt, but its definitely a completely different thing to both Windows gaming and console gaming. Meaning that it has a different and possibly smaller target audience.

[CodeCat]

What about Linux gaming though? It has all the advantages of the PC platform without all the disadvantages of Windows.

[Ion Cannon!]

CodeCat, on 10 Mar 2010, 13:48, said:

What about Linux gaming though? It has all the advantages of the PC platform without all the disadvantages of Windows.

What are the disadvantages of windows? As long as your not a moron you aren't bombarded by viruses, and its not like its unstable. Apart from a problem with my SATA cable; which was easily fixed by replacing it. I haven't had any crashes or problems for 2 years.

Thats what I never understood - Mac users always say Windows is unstable and crashes alot, but it really doesn't.

[Destiny]

They're probably using it wrongly or have a set of circumstances or some other bad luck or crap, Windows hasn't failed me for...since I was 10.

...on the other hand we might see more fresh meat, or overall more players.

Edited by Destiny, 10 March 2010 - 14:06.

[CJ]

Destiny, on 10 Mar 2010, 15:05, said:

They're probably using it wrongly or have a set of circumstances or some other bad luck or crap, Windows hasn't failed me for...since I was 10.

...on the other hand we might see more fresh meat, or overall more players.

Same here, I don't get the hatred towards Windows, except for fail version like Millenium or Vista. I've been using Windows OSes for ages without encountering problems (bar the "Program not responding" errors I've been getting all day long on Vista) and I didn't get any virus on my PC yet apart from those caused by "parental ignorance"
I'd say the reason for which people are bashing that M$ products is that they don't know how to use a PC and to protect themselves from viruses

[Dauth]

Fantastic for our maccists, you will still fail to convert me on the price of hardware front though AJ

[BeefJeRKy]

Mac users on the internet often feel superior for some reason. Linux users don't necessarily hate Windows (unless they run some server). They just find it inferior. The reasons for this include a more solid kernel, a better file system, a better runtime environment, an arguably better GUI environment among other things. After I installed Ubuntu on my Vaio, I stopped booting into Vista except to use Steam and certain applications for engineering courses. Then again, with Windows 7, MS redeemed itself to an extent in my eyes.

With that out of the way, I must say this isn't news that will push forward Mac sales, but rather a positive move by a gaming company in extending the interconnectedness of gamers. They actually worked to get a new platform working instead of lazily developing for one then porting.

[CodeCat]

Ion Cannon!, on 10 Mar 2010, 14:59, said:

CodeCat, on 10 Mar 2010, 13:48, said:

What about Linux gaming though? It has all the advantages of the PC platform without all the disadvantages of Windows.

What are the disadvantages of windows? As long as your not a moron you aren't bombarded by viruses, and its not like its unstable. Apart from a problem with my SATA cable; which was easily fixed by replacing it. I haven't had any crashes or problems for 2 years.

Thats what I never understood - Mac users always say Windows is unstable and crashes alot, but it really doesn't.

Windows is proprietary and closed, is a pain to configure and maintain (once you get into Linux package management you'll never go back, trust me). It also costs a huge amount of money. Linux has a larger potential market exactly because of that (mostly the price).

[BeefJeRKy]

Main problem is most of the productivity apps work best/solely on Windows. AutoCAD, Photoshop, Illustrator, Visio, not to mention Office (I'm sorry but OpenOffice pales in comparison to MS Office). Also there Exchange Servers are very handy for most business as well.

[CodeCat]

That's not a deficiency of Linux itself though. It's only a matter of developers not releasing software for it.

[Dutchygamer]

Ah, more n00bs to dominate on TF2
Erm, I mean, welcome to the Valve sides fellow gamers

[Libains]

CodeCat, on 10 Mar 2010, 18:19, said:

That's not a deficiency of Linux itself though. It's only a matter of developers not releasing software for it.

Which in turn is a matter of Linux being unable to break the Windows strangehold over the consumer market. If they bothered to create a more compatible OS with Windows programs etc, it would be far more competitive. By trying to be different, Linux has likely relegated itself to hardcore areas only. To break a mould, you need to be compatible, it is not software developers' faults if Windows is the big system, they keep their jobs, earn money, by programming for the most successful system.

There is no point in attacking developers, the blame lies squarely with the poor distribution, marketing and compatibility of Linux. Mac's getting Steam because it is the second-most widely used OS out there. If Linux had elbowed it's way in to second place, then I'd imagine Valve would develop for it instead.

[BeefJeRKy]

Linux keeps trying to edge out over the competition with faster boot times. To stand out, they should make a release where they collect all the different fixes for as many PC configs as possible and include them in the next Ubuntu release for example. That way, users have the system working right off the bat. Believe me, it was a pain getting 8.04 working on my laptop. By 9.04, it became fully integrated. Next step would be vreating some form of support for Win32 APIs sort of like WINE but more native and built into the OS.

[CodeCat]

AJ, on 10 Mar 2010, 20:23, said:

CodeCat, on 10 Mar 2010, 18:19, said:

That's not a deficiency of Linux itself though. It's only a matter of developers not releasing software for it.

Which in turn is a matter of Linux being unable to break the Windows strangehold over the consumer market. If they bothered to create a more compatible OS with Windows programs etc, it would be far more competitive. By trying to be different, Linux has likely relegated itself to hardcore areas only. To break a mould, you need to be compatible, it is not software developers' faults if Windows is the big system, they keep their jobs, earn money, by programming for the most successful system.

There is no point in attacking developers, the blame lies squarely with the poor distribution, marketing and compatibility of Linux. Mac's getting Steam because it is the second-most widely used OS out there. If Linux had elbowed it's way in to second place, then I'd imagine Valve would develop for it instead.

Linux CAN'T be compatible because the specs for the Windows application interface are closed, and Microsoft refuses to cooperate with making information public in any way. Microsoft is using the incompatibility as leverage to get people to use Windows, so it's their primary trump card when it comes to keeping developers locked to Windows.

The only way you can make Linux compatible with Windows is by reimplementing the entire Windows interface, and making it work EXACTLY as Windows does. The only way to do that now is through reverse engineering (which is what the Wine project is doing), but that has a lot of flaws and does not account for 'bugs' and 'features' that Microsoft doesn't tell anyone about, but which programs rely on.

Therefore, it's not fair to blame the Linux community for something they can't fix. What CAN be fixed however is the fact that currently too many high-profile developers develop for Windows only. Using portable programming techniques however will circumvent that and reduce lockin, since then it is easy to negate any 'advantage' Windows might have due to incompatibility. So compatibility does lie with the developers.

[Kris]

Linux, Apple...whatever...I'm sticking to windows. Haven't fajl'd my basic needs since 1995... unless i "accidentally" broke it

Edited by Kris, 11 March 2010 - 01:31.