28 replies to this topic

[ΓΛPTΘΓ]

Just sharing some thoughts on the newly released FPS title: Battlefield: Bad Company 2.

The game over all is pretty balance without anything game breaking, M60 and nade launcher is not totally OP just minor changes would be fine.

Now to the flaws that I see in the game.

Bullet ballistics: Not all guns does bullet drop well, the game's projectiles seems to be affected by some kind of fake bullet drop making it unnatural and hard to adapt if you are used to realistic ballistics in games like Red Orchestra. The sniper rifles and IFV/APC auto cannon seems to suffer the most unnatural drop, then the MBT main gun is strangely low velocity.

Building destruction: This is mainly the 40mm grenade launcher seems to destroy walls much better than a 120/125mm cannon from a MBT. Its seems to destroy walls with ease, couldn't say the same to a MBT main cannon.

Alt-fire package: I don't see why anyone not take this instead of any other package for vehicles, the MBT gains a much need a co-axial machine gun, APC gain a wire guided AT missiles, gunships get a guided AT missile, gunship gunner gains a tracer dart. It just make vehicles what they should be like, powerful and worthy to get on. With the "added" weaponry, every vehicle is buffed quite a lot.

FOV: Far too narrow for a PC title, but fixable.

Well those are the flaws, but this game have many things that I consider top notch.

Excellent sound quality, one of the best I have hear from a game. I recommend setting to Hi-Fi for the most balanced sound.

Great visual once tuned, realistic image of dust and smoke.

How to fix FOV, excessive bloom, and increase sound quality: http://forum.falloutstudios.net/index.php?...st&p=758178

Edited by ΓΛPTΘΓ, 08 April 2010 - 17:53.

[Shirou]

About the 40mm and the APC. Look at it from a balance perspective. The APC shoots fast bursts of 4 in rapid succession. Would this thing be able to destroy walls as good as the 40mm with every shot, you'd have an immediate building wrecker right there.

In game balance, quantity of weapon munition and rate of fire also defines how powerful it is, not just realism.

[ΓΛPTΘΓ]

Trivmvirate, on 8 Apr 2010, 20:17, said:

About the 40mm and the APC. Look at it from a balance perspective. The APC shoots fast bursts of 4 in rapid succession. Would this thing be able to destroy walls as good as the 40mm with every shot, you'd have an immediate building wrecker right there.

In game balance, quantity of weapon munition and rate of fire also defines how powerful it is, not just realism.

Did I say APC/IFV? I said MBT. I would say the 40mm grenade kills buildings far too quick, one grenade for one wall, you don't even have to aim.

Edited by ΓΛPTΘΓ, 08 April 2010 - 19:32.

[amazin]

that is done to make the assault the most mobile out of all the classes, same way it was in the original BFBC

[Shirou]

ΓΛPTΘΓ, on 8 Apr 2010, 21:30, said:

Trivmvirate, on 8 Apr 2010, 20:17, said:

About the 40mm and the APC. Look at it from a balance perspective. The APC shoots fast bursts of 4 in rapid succession. Would this thing be able to destroy walls as good as the 40mm with every shot, you'd have an immediate building wrecker right there.

In game balance, quantity of weapon munition and rate of fire also defines how powerful it is, not just realism.

Did I say APC/IFV? I said MBT. I would say the 40mm grenade kills buildings far too quick, one grenade for one wall, you don't even have to aim.

But wth is the problem with the MBT gun. You can drive through walls with the tank and certainly there is no problem with the gun destruction at all. Btw not aiming with the 40mm is not very wise.

And there is another thread for this already...

Edited by Trivmvirate, 08 April 2010 - 22:58.

[Wizard]

Take 1 MBT and 1 Assault class and see who destroys a building first? MBT will reload a shell in 4 seconds. An Assault class can fire 3 40mm nade rounds in 3.9 seconds and takes an additional 10.5 seconds to replenish 3 rounds from an ammo crate. If a 10 wall building (which would need 8 walls to be destroyed) was attacked by an MBT and a similar building attacked by 1 Assault soldier, the MBT would demolish the building 32 seconds. The Assault would get to 44.4 seconds and still have 2 walls left to finish off.

I think I've got that right.

Edit: technically speaking I think Raptor can have a thread for a critique of the game, the other topics were for the general game discussion and mechanics. This could be a duplicate of the technical, but meh.

EditEdit: I agree with you on the whole bullet drop thing. Both Sniper_Bullet and HMG_Bullet both suffer from Bullet_drop. I've found that I can adjust to the SR mechanic as you normally have enough time to factor that in before you fire, but unless you're using the Godly M60 (which iirc they haven't patched yet?!?) you'll just be spraying. Hit reg is a bigger issue for me though. And it's not just the awful netcode. The random deviations, beyond recoil, kick and amp make taking down a target more a question of luck. Who sees who first doesn't even factor into I've found at times. Burst fire etc doesn't aid that much imo.

Edited by Wizard, 09 April 2010 - 00:27.

[ΓΛPTΘΓ]

Wizard, on 9 Apr 2010, 0:13, said:

Take 1 MBT and 1 Assault class and see who destroys a building first? MBT will reload a shell in 4 seconds. An Assault class can fire 3 40mm nade rounds in 3.9 seconds and takes an additional 10.5 seconds to replenish 3 rounds from an ammo crate. If a 10 wall building (which would need 8 walls to be destroyed) was attacked by an MBT and a similar building attacked by 1 Assault soldier, the MBT would demolish the building 32 seconds. The Assault would get to 44.4 seconds and still have 2 walls left to finish off.

I think I've got that right.

Edit: technically speaking I think Raptor can have a thread for a critique of the game, the other topics were for the general game discussion and mechanics. This could be a duplicate of the technical, but meh.

EditEdit: I agree with you on the whole bullet drop thing. Both Sniper_Bullet and HMG_Bullet both suffer from Bullet_drop. I've found that I can adjust to the SR mechanic as you normally have enough time to factor that in before you fire, but unless you're using the Godly M60 (which iirc they haven't patched yet?!?) you'll just be spraying. Hit reg is a bigger issue for me though. And it's not just the awful netcode. The random deviations, beyond recoil, kick and amp make taking down a target more a question of luck. Who sees who first doesn't even factor into I've found at times. Burst fire etc doesn't aid that much imo.

Well compare to a real MBT in real life, its shell with just go through the whole building if its a AP shell, or explode the whole thing in one go with a HE shell. In game, the MBT shell don't destroy walls as well as the nade, sometimes it take a couple to take one down.

Still the main problem is the bullet drop and travel time. Just in a couple of minutes, I was playing Red Orchestra where I took someone down 1000m with a scoped Kar98k, massive drop, close to a second of travel time. Try that in BC2, with the random fake gravity, I couldn't hit anything.

[Shirou]

If the bullet drops are different then naturally you will have difficulty adjusting to it. However, why is the BC2 bullet drop fake and wrong and the Red Orchestra one right?

[Wizard]

ΓΛPTΘΓ, on 9 Apr 2010, 1:56, said:

Well compare to a real MBT in real life, its shell with just go through the whole building if its a AP shell, or explode the whole thing in one go with a HE shell. In game, the MBT shell don't destroy walls as well as the nade, sometimes it take a couple to take one down.

I think this is one situation where Gameplay >>> Realism. The tank shell does massive damage but in comparison to the blast radius of the 40mm it is quite small. I think this must just be how they balanced it. If it were like real life then vehicles would totally dominate combat and it'd just be a race to the tanks and who can fire first with one. And it won't take a "couple" of 40mm nades to take down a building. All buildings require 80% of the structure to to be destroyed before building_damage 2.0 occurs (it collapses). The size of building and the destructable surfaces will determine how quickly it happens. You'll always take down a house with a MBT before you will with the 40mm launcher.

The IVF/APC on the other hand is woefully weak against buildings. Each shot doing only 40 dmg to a wall, which is often why, I think you need 2-3 shots to any one part of a wall/roof to take it out. Which is why I totally agree with you on taking Alt Weapon as the specialisation.

That said I do think that perhaps a tank shell could use alittle more splash damage, I rarely get killed by them, it's 99/100 by the passenger.

ΓΛPTΘΓ, on 9 Apr 2010, 1:56, said:

Still the main problem is the bullet drop and travel time. Just in a couple of minutes, I was playing Red Orchestra where I took someone down 1000m with a scoped Kar98k, massive drop, close to a second of travel time. Try that in BC2, with the random fake gravity, I couldn't hit anything.

Personally I like this about the game. Whilst the maps are not big enough, it does stop the Wookies from ruling the game. Atm if you are unlucky enough to end up in an objective based game with a team of K/D whores it means that they aren't able to scope it out and dominate.

[ΓΛPTΘΓ]

Trivmvirate, on 9 Apr 2010, 8:46, said:

If the bullet drops are different then naturally you will have difficulty adjusting to it. However, why is the BC2 bullet drop fake and wrong and the Red Orchestra one right?

Bullets ballistic are historically correct on all guns in Red Orchestra, and a rifle bullet won't need leading in range like BC2. Just look the the MBT main gun... the velocity is slower than a Sheridan's cannon... Its true that you will need to lead your target on longer range or slower velocity guns like a SMG, but most engagement range in BC2 is really just CQB with assault rifles and M60s, those you really don't have to lead. May have something to do with very DICEish netcoding and DICEish hit reg.

So the main thing is really bullet speed. (higher velocity, lower drop) bullets in BC2 is way too slow for some weapons and vehicles.

Wizard, on 9 Apr 2010, 9:28, said:

That said I do think that perhaps a tank shell could use alittle more splash damage, I rarely get killed by them, it's 99/100 by the passenger.

Another reason for Alt spec vehicle perk, the coaxial machine gun have far more kills than my cannon now.

Edited by ΓΛPTΘΓ, 09 April 2010 - 09:59.

[Chyros]

Advantages:
-great team play that rewards good coordination
-great game types that could be expanded even further
-outstanding sound quality and visual effects that are not animations
-relatively easy to fix balance issues

Disadvantages:
-almost everything about all guns is terrible
-very bad and unnecessarily frustrating controls
-no music
-unbelievable levelfagging

I stick to my original point and would call it a fun game but a terrible shooter. If you're a hardcore shooter fan you'll hate it, if you like team games you'll love it. Probably.

[Kalo]

Chyros, on 9 Apr 2010, 16:55, said:

Disadvantages:
-almost everything about all guns is terrible

I laughed.


Advantages :

Isn't MW2.
Has great replay value.
Vehicles are a lot of fun to drive (Which is a shock, a lot of games have some clunky vehicles man.)
There really is no grenade spam, holy fucking dicks is that even possible?
There's a game mode for everyone.
Destruction
No Prone



Disadvantages :

Carl Gustav
40mm Grenade
Catered to MW Fans (Although I can't really say shit since it's Bad Company, a spin off and in all reality not a Battlefield game.)
All the maps are too linear


Edit : Added an advantage

Edited by Kalo, 09 April 2010 - 23:35.

[Chyros]

Kalo, on 10 Apr 2010, 1:33, said:

Chyros, on 9 Apr 2010, 16:55, said:

Disadvantages:
-almost everything about all guns is terrible

I laughed.

It's just what I think. I hate bullet flight time and the fact that almost everything is inherently inaccurate so that shooting is basically gambling (fun shooter analog of the uncertainty principle), and find most of the weapons themselves very unappealing, as in which ones you can choose. (I like six out of the 42 weapons - the G3, SPAS, Minimi, Uzi, AKu and M60 of course. I don't like any of the others.) Just a matter of preference of course but still.

Edited by Chyros, 10 April 2010 - 10:32.

[ΓΛPTΘΓ]

Chyros, on 9 Apr 2010, 16:55, said:

Disadvantages:
-almost everything about all guns is terrible

I do agree with that. If you have played any shooter simulators you get why. Pistol have high range? Bullet is slow? No, that is the main flaw of the game.

They tried to put in a bullet drop system that doesn't follow laws of physics and bullets that is the speed of a airsoft BB. Great game if they bother to research about real gun's ballistics and implement it in.

[Kalo]

My advice is to play another shooter then. I don't agree with the unrealistic BD that is mentioned but I am really happy about it because it makes it so the clouds of wookies arent fucking everyone over consistently and making the game play stale for people who don't actually enjoy sniper.

Every single gun is good in the sense it can kill people easily in its own circumstance. the only one I can actually say (And I'm sure everyone agrees) is the F2000. It's like you're shooting inaccurate condoms at the enemy. I take back what I said about it raping in close range, lately the gun just fails all around for me. I've tried the other guns I've bad mouthed recently and they can actually kill easily in certain circumstances...The f2000 is just -_-...

Weapon appeal is crucial to any game Chyros, you can't kill with a gun you hate. So it's not like what you say surprises me (Infact I'm glad you found a gun you can rape face with , we gotta do that together sometime). Preference wise I really love the MG36. But it's really situational sadly...

Edited by Kalo, 10 April 2010 - 18:14.

[ΓΛPTΘΓ]

That's why I go medic and don't shoot people unless I have to. I get enormous point just healing, reviving and the occasional kill. Most of the time I am at the top of scoreboard without killing much.

The game is rather fun and fast paced, unlike shooter sims and tactical games. It just a fun game to mess around in.

BTW soldier name: Ra97oR
Anyone is welcomed to add me as a friend.

[Chyros]

Kalo, on 10 Apr 2010, 20:11, said:

Weapon appeal is crucial to any game Chyros, you can't kill with a gun you hate. So it's not like what you say surprises me (Infact I'm glad you found a gun you can rape face with , we gotta do that together sometime). Preference wise I really love the MG36. But it's really situational sadly...

Disregarding the fact it's OP I must say I do love the M60, always have. I'm really glad they put it in the game since it's such an awesome weapon . And yeah, hit me up for a game sometime .

[Stalker]

I can't really say advantage or disadvantage. Which game do you compare it to?

Compared to MW2:

+better teamplay
+better objective based gametypes: (Rush > S&D, Conquest > Domination)
(+vehicles) - well, MW2 doesn't really have them...
+larger maps
+better atmosphere (feels more like war, less like a game)
+destructible environment (gameplay wise)
+better balance (with an exception of the M60)
+less noobs and annoying weapons (less ... ofc there are CG, 40mm, ...)

= about equal replayability

- probably less noob friendly (That one is really difficult. The Wait-10sec -> die, Wait 10sec -> die,.. can be really frustrating. in MW2 chances are probably higher you get a lucky kill)
--- gunplay (you can't beat CoD on that one)

Compared to BF2 / BF2142:

+destructivle environment
+more customisation
+probably better vehicle balance
+probably more unlocks -> higher replayability

=about equal (bad) gunplay

-smaller maps
-worse teamplay (I miss the Commander-Squadleader-Squadmember hierarchy)
-less types of vehicles


---------------------------------------------------------

IMHO BFBC2 is a good game but it is kinda a hybrid between to types of games.
It is both a shooter and a battlefield game. But its 'BF-Part' isn't better than BF2 and its 'shooter-part' isn't better than CoD

Personally, i already partly lost interest. I unlocked anything that's of worth for me and the gameplay isn't that fascinating to me to play this for a long time.
But for me there is no real alternative. MW2 is a better game but everything out of a match makes me hate this game every time I try to play it.

[Wizard]

Stalker, on 11 Apr 2010, 9:14, said:

Personally, i already partly lost interest. I unlocked anything that's of worth for me and the gameplay isn't that fascinating to me to play this for a long time.

This is slightly true for me atm. But the reasons are very different. Playing MW2 with you guys was fun, but the game frustrated me in that 90% of games turned into lame fests. BC2 does, for the most part remove this, however, I've gone off it as soo many people either don't have it or aren't playing it. The game should have long life span due to the variety of ways to play but atm there I get fed up of not having an actual 'team' to play with which greatly increases the enjoyment when you are able to coordinate an attack, overwhelm your opponents and respawn on your squad. I've gotten sick of games where I have to respawn miles away due to odd numbers and basically be the lone [insert class] actually doing their job.

Edited by Wizard, 11 April 2010 - 09:53.

[Kalo]

Hop on the UvT Vent more then, Wizard. I'm sure you'll find somebody to play with.

[Admiral FCS]

Have anyone playing on consoles experienced the problem of frequently going lone wolf? Apparently, I'm quite often the lone wolf in my team while all others have a squad.

Also a questions that's kind of related: why am I always in the losing team?

[Chyros]

Admiral FCS, on 13 Apr 2010, 1:05, said:

Have anyone playing on consoles experienced the problem of frequently going lone wolf? Apparently, I'm quite often the lone wolf in my team while all others have a squad.

Also a questions that's kind of related: why am I always in the losing team?

Simple, you lose because you're not in a squad .

[Shirou]

Admiral FCS, on 13 Apr 2010, 1:05, said:

Have anyone playing on consoles experienced the problem of frequently going lone wolf? Apparently, I'm quite often the lone wolf in my team while all others have a squad.

Also a questions that's kind of related: why am I always in the losing team?

Your battle efficiency will be significantly reduced when you are not in a squad. Also look for a clan of somesorts so you can play with the same people in a squad, as that will make you the ultimate win and if you're good, the games that you will not receive the Best Squad pin will be rare.

[Pav:3d]

Now that i have the ump45, I just need to get magnum ammo and I can finally start playing the game.

Gah BC1's multiplayer was so much better :'(, they really messed up the balance, everyone starts with shite weapons and you gotta level up to get the good ones (rather than, choose whatever weapon you want to unlock) and you just get lamed by everyone with m16's and magnum ammo. Its really annoying.

They seem to have improved shotguns somewhat, tho I havent unlocked any of the later ones yet.

For the most part its fun, but nothing mind blowing sadly. The beta was much more fun due to everyone being on somewhat of an even playing field weapon and perk-wise.

[Kalo]

The starter SMG does the same damage as the UMP, the AEK is good, PKM good and the M24 is second best damage. I don't know what you mean by shite weapons. but currently he's right in the fact that you mostly need magnum ammo which is kind of sad.