11 replies to this topic

[Zero]

Well, I spent some of my time away from here debating creationists. One of their favorite arguments seems to stem from the basis that evolution inspires evil and immorality, saying that death is the god of life etc, etc, etc. Frequently they cite the incidents of tragedies such as Columbine amongst others and claim that evolution actually encourages murder and thievery and does nothing to prevent it as well as thievery, murder, and rape.

My question in this thread is, can morality be derived from evolution and evolutionary pressures? As for myself, it seems perfectly plausible, but I'm wondering if I'm a relative minority in this. In my opinion, from everything I've read of evolution and natural selection, the evidence actually strongly suggests the opposite, that evolutionary pressures can actually perfectly explain morality, more or less.

Am I alone in this sentiment?

Edited by Zero, 30 May 2010 - 20:38.

[Golan]

Imagine 10 people fighting each other or 10 people fighting together. Who's got a better chance if survival?

*rests his case and goes laughing at some creationists*

Oh, and for bonus points, imagine 10 people acting like stupid dicks because they think they could understand God's ineffable plan...
Or that it'd actually be an argument against evolution if it would encourage murder and thievery, or that in this case God wouldn't be the one to blame... oh well.

Edited by Golan, 30 May 2010 - 22:09.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Since Creationism is based on faith, it is inimical to any rational code of morality.

[Whitey]

For reasons already stated, I agree with the topic poster. I raised the question in my psychology class and concluded similarly.

But then evolution also accounts for immorality. Imagine there are eight people eating eight pieces of pie, and all are quite hungry. One could kill all the rest and steal all of the pie and live happily ever after.

I know it isn't the exact topic at hand but I fear that this is going to turn into a total religion-bashing thread based on past observation. I can imagine somebody chiming in that if we all subscribed to evolution the world would be a better place and that religion results in evil and so on and so forth.

[CodeCat]

There is no morality in evolution. Evolution is about cause and effect. Organisms survive because they didn't die. They didn't die because they bested other species and/or other members of their species. There isn't any good/bad in it, just what happens.

[Zero]

CodeCat, on 31 May 2010, 0:07, said:

There is no morality in evolution. Evolution is about cause and effect. Organisms survive because they didn't die. They didn't die because they bested other species and/or other members of their species. There isn't any good/bad in it, just what happens.

Yeah, sorry if I stated it in a confusing manner. But that is my point. But the things that we perceive as "morality" can be, for the most part, explained through evolutionary pressures. Morality, as defined today, is a result of evolutionary pressures, because it is an adaption that gave us a better chance for survival. One of their great arguments was that evolution encourages humans to slaughter one another, but I don't see it that way. In fact, it would mean the opposite, at least in a species of animal as social as the human.

I don't want to make this a thread about creationists and such, I was just stating where the idea came from.

Edited by Zero, 30 May 2010 - 23:41.

[Dauth]

Golan, on 30 May 2010, 23:01, said:

Imagine 10 people fighting each other or 10 people fighting together. Who's got a better chance if survival?

*rests his case and goes laughing at some creationists*

Oh, and for bonus points, imagine 10 people acting like stupid dicks because they think they could understand God's ineffable plan...
Or that it'd actually be an argument against evolution if it would encourage murder and thievery, or that in this case God wouldn't be the one to blame... oh well.

CodeCat, on 31 May 2010, 0:07, said:

There is no morality in evolution. Evolution is about cause and effect. Organisms survive because they didn't die. They didn't die because they bested other species and/or other members of their species. There isn't any good/bad in it, just what happens.

Throw teaching of the next generation around CodeCat's post and you reach Golan's. Bob's thine uncle, Fanny's thine aunt.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Golan, on 30 May 2010, 23:01, said:

Imagine 10 people fighting each other or 10 people fighting together. Who's got a better chance if survival?

*rests his case and goes laughing at some creationists*

Oh, and for bonus points, imagine 10 people acting like stupid dicks because they think they could understand God's ineffable plan...
Or that it'd actually be an argument against evolution if it would encourage murder and thievery, or that in this case God wouldn't be the one to blame... oh well.

The ones that are acting like stupid dicks in the same manner are the ones that are going to band together.

[Golan]

Boidy, on 30 May 2010, 22:32, said:

But then evolution also accounts for immorality. Imagine there are eight people eating eight pieces of pie, and all are quite hungry. One could kill all the rest and steal all of the pie and live happily ever after.

Well, if you have the alternative of 8 starving people each not eating enough to survive or one out of 8 surviving, I guess it's better to save one than doom all, isn't it? Though this might all depend on where the pie came from in the first place - no use butchering the cook for one meal if he'd serve you a half one every day.

Dr. Strangelove, on 31 May 2010, 0:01, said:

Golan, on 30 May 2010, 23:01, said:

Imagine 10 people fighting each other or 10 people fighting together. Who's got a better chance if survival?

*rests his case and goes laughing at some creationists*

Oh, and for bonus points, imagine 10 people acting like stupid dicks because they think they could understand God's ineffable plan...
Or that it'd actually be an argument against evolution if it would encourage murder and thievery, or that in this case God wouldn't be the one to blame... oh well.

The ones that are acting like stupid dicks in the same manner are the ones that are going to band together.

Well, then clearly the others that don't band together are even greater idiots. *goes looking for a point*

Edited by Golan, 31 May 2010 - 06:47.

[Major Fuckup]

Creationists and religious nut jobs are no better than each other they both spew shit they can't exactly prove.

[Zhao]

Quote

Well, I spent some of my time away from here debating creationists. One of their favorite arguments seems to stem from the basis that evolution inspires evil and immorality, saying that death is the god of life etc, etc, etc. Frequently they cite the incidents of tragedies such as Columbine amongst others and claim that evolution actually encourages murder and thievery and does nothing to prevent it as well as thievery, murder, and rape.

How does evolution inspire evil and immorality?!

[Whitey]

Just as it inspires morality and goodness, as you might term them. From the view of an evolutionist, it is simply a matter of what leads to survival, correct me if I am wrong.