21 replies to this topic

[V.Metalic]

Giga Fortress cant fire the missiles on ground...

[vader333]

V.Metalic, on 13 Nov 2010, 15:19, said:

Giga Fortress cant fire the missiles on ground...

Sorry, but it can. Go try it.

[V.Metalic]

I dont remember it does, but it doesnt change anything. They are, as I remember, placed on the hull of Giga Fortress in the way it dont prevent from firing, and does they do any significant damage to the ground units nearby?

[vader333]

They are placed on rocket pods that don't prevent it from hitting land targets, that much is true, but you wouldn't use an anti-air missile on a tank, would you? Wouldn't do damage appropriate or some other thing. I can't be certain if just tampering with the rocket pods will make it balanced, but it would be a start.

[V.Metalic]

It could be, but maybe it is also a defense for short range.

[vader333]

Which makes it rather imbalanced. It has full fire power against long range artillery, short range ships and tanks, and anti-air. If either its anti-air or anti artillery abilities could be clipped, meaning either an increase in the average range of all land based artillery, or a decrease in range of Giga fortress guns and rockets, or even both simultaneously.

[V.Metalic]

How strong the rockets are against ground targets?

[vader333]

Against Infantry: not that strong. Rather inefficient, if not ineffective as well.

Against tanks: it works just like any anti armour tank would.

[V.Metalic]

So I see no problem here.

[vader333]

The problem lies in how there are no effective hard counters against it. Infantry can't swim, and don't have the range to hit the giga. Tanks are useless, as the armour of Giga is too strong, and they don't survive anyways. Likewise for air and sea (akula subs are ineffective, I've tried). Only counter is Grinder, which is OP in itself (it defeats all tanks and ships, and has enough armour to withstand heavy anti-tank infantry fire)

[Com-Link]

Now this topic is in the right spot.

Note that I'm not trying to stop the discussion, I've just moved it to a more appropriate section.

Edited by Com-Link, 16 November 2010 - 09:25.

[V.Metalic]

Then its settled. Grinder can destroy it When supported by arty and ships, you can destroy it. Why you think it is named "Giga Fortress"? Because the devs were bored and just trowed the first name they had in mind?

[NRedAlert]

Quote

The problem lies in how there are no effective hard counters against it. Infantry can't swim, and don't have the range to hit the giga. Tanks are useless, as the armour of Giga is too strong, and they don't survive anyways. Likewise for air and sea (akula subs are ineffective, I've tried). Only counter is Grinder, which is OP in itself (it defeats all tanks and ships, and has enough armour to withstand heavy anti-tank infantry fire)

Remeber guys, the Giga has quite a bit of counters..... Has anyone tried Cryo and Minigunner combo? Or just send a mass of fighters against it. (plus the Grinder, Natasha, Heroic Kirov EMP bombs.... need I go on?) Plus, the Giga is insanely expensive at $6300 a pop..... By the time someone has a Giga, you should have at least two wings of fighters. In the internal beta, TheWorms has balanced the Giga quite well. Once it's released, I'm sure you'll agree.

Edited by NRedAlert, 16 November 2010 - 16:37.

[V.Metalic]

I am guarding Giga Fortress here.

[NRedAlert]

V.Metalic, on 16 Nov 2010, 12:33, said:

I am guarding Giga Fortress here.

Yeah, I know.I was just also replying to vader's comment. But vader, I trust the question is answered, right?

[vader333]

I guess I'll wait for the release, do some testing, then report back.

Report:
6 Stingrays, $6000, against Giga: Stingrays did 1/4 of giga health in damage before dying
4 Akulas, $7200, against Giga : Akulas managed to destroy Giga with help of 4 Ultratorpedoes. One Akula lost.
6 Twinblades, $7200, against Giga: Twinblades did 1/2 of Giga health in damage before dying off
6 VX strikers, $7200, against Giga: Destroyed Giga, but lost 5 of 6 Strikers
6 MiGs, $6000, against Giga; Giga was traveling across land mass on map [Casual Encounter], and could not transform: MiG's Destroyed Giga just before it reached water (rather long), with some ammo to spare.

except for the MiG, seems to be quite balanced, actually.

Edited by vader333, 17 November 2010 - 05:42.

[V.Metalic]

MiGs can attack only on air targets, and Giga can attack air only when on surface. Thats normal, Apollos will end up the same. Its really balanced.

[n5p29]

I think the OP part of Giga Fortress is when on the Sea Fortress form. in Sky Fortress form it's easily counterable, but in Sea Fortress form it doesn't have any real counters.
most Giga Fortress users also never let one Giga Fortress alone, it always come up with few escort, or even another Giga Fortress (two of them can be almost unstoppable). a good player can have $12600 investment easily.

[vader333]

Actually, if you think about it, $6300 is not much of an investment. As pointed out above, any normal player would have $7200 odd to field a force. Additionally, Giga takes 30 seconds to get out of the Imperial Docks, and 20 secs to unfold from nanocore. Thats 50 secs. 4 Akulas take 80 secs. That's 30 secs more. Plus, the Giga can attack land units, while the Akula is limited to sea forces. And it must be noted, that during the above tests, all 4 ultratorpedoes were fired at the Giga fortress. And I still lost one Akula, and half of another. If there were two Giga's, it would take 8 Akulas to counter the two Giga's. Thats 100 secs and $12600 for Giga, and 160 secs and $14400 for Akula. It makes for a difference of 60 secs (1 whole minute; time enough to make one MCV) and $1800.

Based on the suggested template, which I strongly believe in, the Giga fortress is Over Powered in the sense that it requires more investment to destroy it than to create it. Almost all the above tests required amounts greater than Giga's cost.

V.Metalic, on 17 Nov 2010, 19:41, said:

MiGs can attack only on air targets, and Giga can attack air only when on surface. Thats normal, Apollos will end up the same. Its really balanced.

That doesn't address the issue of the MiG's inefficiency as an Air Superiority unit compared to Apollo and Mecha Tengu, really... But, on second thoughts, perhaps the MiG's should be made to be able to deal massive damage to the Giga before it manages to get back onto the water on the map Casual Encounter. That would be... around half the health of Giga in damage done...in 6 secs...?

n5p29, on 17 Nov 2010, 19:57, said:

I think the OP part of Giga Fortress is when on the Sea Fortress form. in Sky Fortress form it's easily counterable, but in Sea Fortress form it doesn't have any real counters.
most Giga Fortress users also never let one Giga Fortress alone, it always come up with few escort, or even another Giga Fortress (two of them can be almost unstoppable). a good player can have $12600 investment easily.

We can't really test that at the moment. It would require two human players. And the effectiveness of escorts really ground down to micro management. They're hard to quantify, balance wise.

Although, seeing how slow and limited the functions of Giga is, I don't see how micro management comes into play for Giga. =P

[V.Metalic]

... military dont says you much, hmm? When you will be a supreme commander of the military, will you want a unit which can be destroyed by enemy units, which consumes less than your one unit? Thats the point, if the enemy wants to destroy Giga Fortress, he will need to invest more money, and you would be happy for it. Otherwise, you have proven that Giga Fortress can be destroyed in both its forms, and when I think about it, you are very limitating all the possibilities. You have said there examples, where you used only one type of unit, you havent counted that Soviets could use Terror Drone, Allies Hydrofoil and Empire a Rocket Angel. Like so so you can save a lot of your money for different objectives. If you are using only one type of unit, you are probably not a good player, no offense.

[ni.va]

... Yes, I agree with V.metallic. you can send less than that much chopper VXs u said with a help of a single rocket angel in second mode... or yuriko to scort... or for soviet you can send one dreadnought or terror drone as akulas fighting Giga. & remember Giga does need highest tech level & meeting gigas does not happen that fast. u should be prepared for Gigas as they come.

[vader333]

Hmm... Gotta do more testing...